Dodgy development:of UK in India/We don't Want your Aid

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,834
They have removed the thread or hidden it from me!

To be fair to the Forum Admin and some posters, they have been quite nice to me.

Once they closed a thread and apologised for some racist remarks.

There are some cads there who still cannot come to terms with the reality of the modern world and the 21st Century.
 

wrigsted

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
63
Likes
52
Country flag
British public has no time to think about India. They are busy with their own world. Their world is limited to ,boozing,smoking, petty crimes, sex at the age of 12,swearing, living on govt benefits,doing no work, etc etc
Now you almost sound like the guy on your avatar:rolleyes:
 

satish007

Senior Member
Joined
May 7, 2011
Messages
1,458
Likes
203
And were it not for the Wehrmacht, the Brits under that racist Churchill would not have let go. They would have held on to India till the 1960s, I feel.

Personally speaking, I don't "hate" the Brits. But their comments and attitude in the last few days is irritating. Still, personally I don't think I "hate" the Brits.
similar here, without Japs, CCP hard to survive and win the civil war in China.
 

ejazr

Ambassador
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
4,523
Likes
1,388


Business Line : Opinion / Columns : Rafale win leaves UK smarting

Britain, a key arms supplier to India, cannot believe that it lost out to France.
February 5, 2012:

Last year, a group of Indian journalists were taken on a tour of BAE System's Warton Aerodrome on Britain's northwest coast, where Eurofighter Typhoons for British and Saudi contracts were being assembled.

We watched a Typhoon swoop above, tried on and played around with the jet's pilot helmet, a Darth Vaderesque object with an optical tracking system fitted inside, and generally had as much of an adventure park-like experience that one could have at an aerodrome assembling war planes.

Everyone, of course, avoided being drawn into a discussion of the four-nation Eurofighter consortium's prospects for winning the $10-billion bid for 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) but there was certainly an air of cautious optimism.

Unsurprisingly, perhaps. With the exception of Russia, no other country has had as lucrative a trade with India when it comes to arms as Britain has.

Between 1950 and 2010, India has imported $15.3 billion worth of arms from Britain, against $4 billion from France and $1.8 billion from Germany, according to data from the Swedish International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI).

It is a dominance that has continued into the current decade: In the decade till 2010, British arms exports to India totalled $859 million, more than the total for Germany ($414 million) and France ($432 million) combined.

Britain's consistent position as second-to-Russia when it came to Indian arms imports has bucked the direction of their bilateral trade relationship, which has seen Britain slip behind other European nations in relative terms. And globally the Indian arms market matters more than any: between 2006 and 2010, it was the largest arms importer in the world, accounting for an impressive 9 per cent of international arms transfer volumes, according to SIPRI data.
France's steady presence

France has been a steady presence in that market since the 1950s, and Germany since the 1960s — but failed to take over from Britain.

While France has established itself across platforms — from the Mirage to submarines — Germany, the third largest exporter of arms in the world, has failed to establish a major presence beyond engine systems in the Indian market, often because of the costliness of its product, says Siemon Wezeman, senior researcher at SIPRI.

The Indian market has also consistently remained a European battleground, unlike other Asian markets (US arms exports to Japan totalled $57 billion between 1950 and 2010 against $1.4 billion from Britain and $442 million from Germany).

Excluding Russia, India's four largest sources of arms are European (Switzerland and the Netherlands are both ahead of Israel, with the US never taking off as a major supplier, partly because of its relationship with Pakistan and partly for limited willingness to transfer technology and stringent conditions such as weapons inspections).
Aggressive UK campaign

Though the Eurofighter bid was led by Germany's Cassidian, there was aggressive campaigning by Britain — not least during the Prime Minister, Mr David Cameron's visit to India in 2010 shortly after the British general election, during which a £500-million contract between BAE Systems and Hindustan Electronics for Hawk training jets was signed.

During a visit to India last year, Britain's development minister, Mr Andrew Mitchell, linked the strategic aim of the nation's decision to maintain £1.2 billion of aid to India — while scrapping it for many other countries — to trade and even directly to the Eurofighter campaign. "The focus is also about seeking to sell Typhoon," he said, according to Britain's The Independent newspaper at the time.

In Germany, the reaction to the news that Dassault Aviation had emerged as the lowest, and therefore preferred bidder for the MMRCA contract was relatively muted, with criticism more focused on the limited role that the Chancellor, Ms Angela Merkel, played in the campaign, compared with the involvement of the French President, Mr Nicholas Sarkozy on Dassault's behalf.

By contrast, in Britain, it has been vitriolic at points, making clear the presumptiveness that prevailed in some quarters, despite the fact that it had been clear that having tested all the first-round contenders against 660 different criteria, the final round was all about costs. "Well, that's gratitude," The Daily Mail newspaper — reportedly the most read newspaper web site in the world — declared furiously.

"We give India £1 billion in aid, THEY snub the UK and give France a £13-billion jet contract!" Some Conservative MPs called on the government to revisit the decision on aid.

Mr Cameron, steering clear of any retaliatory rhetoric, vowed to do all he could to persuade India to revisit the decision — though whether he will do so at a potential cost to diplomatic relations is another matter altogether, say some observers.
Boost for Sarkozy

That a country that exited the Eurofighter project — originally initiated in the 1970s as a cost-sharing project across European nations — had beaten the consortium on the complex cost calculations, including life cycle costs and technology transfer, was bad enough.

Let alone a company that is yet to sell a single Rafale outside France, despite coming close to deals in the UAE, Brazil, Libya, Switzerland and South Korea. (At one point a French minister warned that the project would have to be scrapped if no sales were agreed soon).

That it was a French victory, so soon after India had opted for a $2.5-billion upgrade of its Mirage 2000s grated even more in Britain, given the sparring between the leaders of the two nations in the past few months.

Mr Sarkozy has made no secret of his contempt for Mr Cameron's criticism of Euro Zone nations — at one point telling him to join the euro or 'shut up'. Just the day before the contract was announced Mr Sarkozy declared Britain had 'no industry left', a comment that wouldn't have rankled so much if there weren't elements of truth to it.

The MMRCA contact is a boost for Mr Sarkozy so close to the May Presidential elections, with the potential impact — should the contract be signed — set to be felt beyond just Dassault Aviation itself (Thales will supply information systems and Safran the twin M88 engines).

'Dogfight' was the way Ashley J. Tellis of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace characterised the global battle to win the MMRCA contract in a report last year, even before the initial shortlist was drawn up.

It has proved an accurate description: with the first round of short-listing last year being seen inaccurately by some of a rebuffing of a closer strategic relationship with the US, rather than the reality, which was a reflection of the military's technological needs and a willingness by the bidders to share technology.

Last week's decision is likely to face the same sort of pressure.

It is up to the government to combat that pressure, through transparency about how it arrived at the cost ranking, and to show that it is capable of having a relationship with diverse partners, based on a strict set of criteria, and that it is a relationship that no nation can take for granted.
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,834
I don't understand how you people can debate with the Britishers. I cannot read their posts without going insane.
That is because of our cultural difference.

We are more patient than them and way less arrogant!
 

Aditya Mookerjee

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2011
Messages
25
Likes
3
I agree with Question Time entirely. The United Kingdom can stop aid. But the aid doesn't go towards buying fighter jets. India is spending on social sector, but the money is pilfered. Why cannot the United Kingdom help the Indian Government do a better job? I mean, keep the aid, and help the monies get to the poor.
 

mayfair

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
6,032
Likes
13,109
I thought it was a decent discussion with minimal hyperbole. Not much to get one's knickers in a twist, to be honest.
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,834
Bangalorean and P Maitra,,


Thanks for the backup at

India asks for aid to be stopped and DfID refuses? - Page 8

I was getting a wee bit tired taking them on singlehandedly and not being able to use the modern type of syntax to put them in your place..

A good job done.

Hoping that you will be there since I am not going to quit telling them where to get off with their condescensions and patronising!
 

Godless-Kafir

DFI Buddha
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
5,842
Likes
1,837
Country flag
I was wondering the same thing.

Exactly, i to think their Jingoism is in a level of insanity, its not a sane form of tribalism but fanatic jingoism. This is why their empire collapsed and they cant even live with the Irish or EU because no one can really stand that level of constant chest thumping.
 

The Messiah

Bow Before Me!
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
10,809
Likes
4,619
Bangalorean and P Maitra,,


Thanks for the backup at

India asks for aid to be stopped and DfID refuses? - Page 8

I was getting a wee bit tired taking them on singlehandedly and not being able to use the modern type of syntax to put them in your place..

A good job done.

Hoping that you will be there since I am not going to quit telling them where to get off with their condescensions and patronising!
If i land up there ranting then chances are that all of us will get banned :cool2:
 

The Messiah

Bow Before Me!
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
10,809
Likes
4,619
Exactly, i to think their Jingoism is in a level of insanity, its not a sane form of tribalism but fanatic jingoism. This is why their empire collapsed and they cant even live with the Irish or EU because no one can really stand that level of constant chest thumping.
They are brainwashed.

Thats why instances like this when they get rejected bring out a sudden reaction.
 

Godless-Kafir

DFI Buddha
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
5,842
Likes
1,837
Country flag
They are brainwashed.

Thats why instances like this when they get rejected bring out a sudden reaction.
We are all brain washed but that particular brand of brain wash is peculiarly close to insanity when it comes to jingoism. They are a crazy bunch of bottom crawlers.
 

The Messiah

Bow Before Me!
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
10,809
Likes
4,619
We are all brain washed but that particular brand of brain wash is peculiarly close to insanity when it comes to jingoism. They are a crazy bunch of bottom crawlers.
Im tempted to sign up and throw in a few rants.

So are you coming or not ?
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,834
If i land up there ranting then chances are that all of us will get banned :cool2:
No, see Bangalorean's post.

A chap with a vocab like JayATL would be loved.

In fact I was told by one that if I was uncomfortable with cnut and so on, I was in the wrong place, though one told him to be a wee bit of an adult!
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,834
Please no rants.

If you go there, just take them on with total dignity and even like Bangalorean so that they know we are better than them.

The best part is most of them can't even spell!
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top