Did Islam Ruin Afghanistan ?

[bennedose]

So a man who lied on no civilization after Ashoka in Northwestern areas, talked about Hindu being replaced by buddhists in that part when Islam came is writing about ignorance!
.

Bingo. You say there was civilization after Ashoka. And you say that there was no civilization after Islam came in and Ghaznavids ruled over Punjab from Ghazna in Afghanistan? What about Punjab, or Lahore that Ghaznavids ruled? Was there culture there but no culture in Afghanistan?

You are the one who said Islam destroyed all culture. You say that language and literature indicate culture. So there was no language and literature or architecture associated with the Ghaznavid empire ruling Afghanistan?

Stop tying yourself in knots and contradicting yourself. You are standing on a shaky stool and trying to reach far outside your narrow knowledge base. The only thing you have is preconceived notions and an ability to bluff with confidence while trying to put someone else down. Putting someone down is easy - I am sure you can cope with it if someone does that to you. It's your knowledge base that is deficient

 

[nrupatunga]

@bennedose
you need to discuss/debate with @civfanatic on islam/hinduism etc etc. I will look forward to that discussion( i think many on DFi will also look forward for this exchange)

Civ where are you??

=======
Bennedose - saar by any chance davanagere na nimma ooru??

 

[Pratap]

]Nonsense. Covering the head for a marriage is different from covering faces all the time in the presence of unrelated men which is what Islam did to North India.

Draupadi does say in Mahabharata that in old times, women did not appear before assembly of men while she was being dragged by Dushashana. What it shows is that Mahabharata which was compiled finally in Gupta age already had belief that women should not appear before large assembly of men even if among certain sections.
Shakuntala wore veil not just covered her head. I do not see South Indian" Mahilas" doing same.

You are the one who is spouting westernized rubbish by speaking of "partiarchal culture blah blah"- or "well attested from Gupta period"

You do not know patriarchial culture! Pitrasattatamak Samaj is natural order of human society and anyone saying else is living in delusion.
I already gave reference of Shakuntala.

India patriarchal culture never segregated men from women as in Islam.

Where did I say that it did like Islam? It did frown upon mixing of sexes and had contempt for northwestern Indians for that.
Buddhist monk in famous drama "Mrichhakatikam" does not even touch Vasantasena even when he wanted to help her out. Our culture was strictly against "kamavasana".

You simply want to pretend that Islam had no effect on North India but affected only Afghaistan. That is utter tripe. And India retains matriarchal culture in some places - but you wouldn't know anything outside Pakista, UP and Bihar it appears. If you think you have been doing any reading - you have a long way to go before you can wash off your pretend theories about culture.[

Islam did impact us in items of dress for men, cuisine and music but not to that extent.
Islam also impacted Hyderabad . Infact, local language of Hyderabad is much Persianized than that of my city.
India does retain matriarchial culture in some places . The same places which did not have anything to show. Matriarchial culture was heavily practised among Nayars of Kerala and we know how backward they were before patriarchial Brahmins civilized them.

Show me a single matriarchial culture that had independent literature and writing. Matriarchial culture is there among some backward tribals only.
This is westernized mindset.
Our ancestors were Manu and Ram not Nayars or Chenchus.

 

[Pratap]

Bingo. You say there was civilization after Ashoka. And you say that there was no civilization after Islam came in and Ghaznavids ruled over Punjab from Ghazna in Afghanistan? What about Punjab, or Lahore that Ghaznavids ruled? Was there culture there but no culture in Afghanistan?

Quote of mine will be enough . You claimed that civilization ended with Ashoka. You have been proven wrong. I am also not getting any source for Islam destroying Buddhists in Afghanistan rather than Hindus.
I have already said that Arab authors noted people of east afghan lands not eating beef which could only mean they were Hindus. You have simply run away from this.

 

[bennedose]

You said civilization ended with Ashoka and now you are running for cover. Substantiate your claim.
BTW, Culture does include religion and language as its main components not painting nude figures or not covering heads. You are amazingly dishonest.
Nothing is well in UP and Bihar so far as HDI and PCI is concerned and I admit this. This is economic backwardness not cultural.

HDI? PCI? I am not referring to those western imposed human parameters. HDI and PCI were probably just as bad 1000 years ago in terms of maternal mortality and dollars per day, running water and toilets. So that is a change of subject.

If culture does not include language or religion what was that nonsense you were spouting about Indo Aryan language and Shiva worship in Bihar and UP? That is not culture then? You were whining about poverty but presence of culture. Now you say language and religion are not culture. Make up your mind.

Hindu culture pretty had pretty much ended in Gandhara and Taxila after Ashoka. It was predominantly Buddhist or at best a mixture of both. It is my own theory that Buddhist pacifism contributed a great deal to the overrunning of Afghanistan and parts of current day Pakistan. But Punjab always wimped out until Sikhism came up. Then UP and Bihar collapsed in a heap.

Large parts of India were free from these degradations for a long time after that. But you know absolutely nothing about that, obsessed as you are with your fair skinned "Indo-Aryans" while you accuse me of talking about western inspire knowledge. That is specious rubbish.

 

[bennedose]

Quote of mine will be enough . You claimed that civilization ended with Ashoka. You have been proven wrong. I am also not getting any source for Islam destroying Buddhists in Afghanistan rather than Hindus.
I have already said that Arab authors noted people of east afghan lands not eating beef which could only mean they were Hindus. You have simply run away from this.

Get your facts right. You have proven nothing by simply saying whatever you want. Hindu civilization in Afghanistan ended with Ashoka. It was free for all with invasions after that. You claim that civilization ended in Afghanistan after the Islamic hordes came in and objected to my statement that civilization continued in Afghanistan. Which one is it? Was there or was there no civilization in Afghanistan when the first Islamic invaders arrived?

 

[Pratap]

Get your facts right. You have proven nothing by simply saying whatever you want. Hindu civilization in Afghanistan ended with Ashoka. It was free for all with invasions after that. You claim that civilization ended in Afghanistan after the Islamic hordes came in and objected to my statement that civilization continued in Afghanistan. Which one is it? Was there or was there no civilization in Afghanistan when the first Islamic invaders arrived?

Show me some evidence of writing, literature and coins with names written from Afghanistan before Ashoka.

 

[Pratap]

Hindu culture pretty had pretty much ended in Gandhara and Taxila after Ashoka. It was predominantly Buddhist or at best a mixture of both. It is my own theory that Buddhist pacifism contributed a great deal to the overrunning of Afghanistan and parts of current day Pakistan. But Punjab always wimped out until Sikhism came up. Then UP and Bihar collapsed in a heap

The rulers of UP and Bihar have ruled South.

 

[Pratap]

If culture does not include language or religion what was that nonsense you were spouting about Indo Aryan language and Shiva worship in Bihar and UP? That is not culture then? You were whining about poverty but presence of culture. Now you say language and religion are not culture. Make up your mind.

Culture does include religion and language and both these things are there in UP and Bihar matching pre Islamic India. We use terms of pre christian era like Mahila and Tyaga, Tapasya. Southies have borrowed from North in all these matters.

 

[bennedose]

Show me some evidence of writing, literature and coins with names written from Afghanistan before Ashoka.

I am sure you can find whatever you want to fit the facts you cook up. I am referring to Afghanistan under early Islamic rule. Was there or was there not any civilization in Afghanistan at that time?

 

[sam80]

Get your facts right. You have proven nothing by simply saying whatever you want. Hindu civilization in Afghanistan ended with Ashoka. It was free for all with invasions after that. You claim that civilization ended in Afghanistan after the Islamic hordes came in and objected to my statement that civilization continued in Afghanistan. Which one is it? Was there or was there no civilization in Afghanistan when the first Islamic invaders arrived?

Here you go Another Self Proclaimed Historian . Just Rulers Changed time to time And Buddhist Rulers were also there , Religion were always complex and mixed Buddhism , Hinduism and others sects all existed until Islamist destroyed them .

 

[bennedose]

The rulers of UP and Bihar have ruled South.

Fine. I have no problem with that. A lot of people from the north migrated south during the Islamic invasions and helped keep the culture alive. But over the centuries - Islam destroyed Hindu culture in large parts of the north, imposed its own cultural rules and language and even Hindu art became Islamized. All your blather about race. colour and Indo-Aryan connection with Russia sounds like a weak defence of a person with an inferiority complex trying to get some pride out of an area deeply subjugated and influenced and totally ruled by Islam. You are clutching at western inspired literature and interpretations of the Vedas to gain that pride. Fact is Islam ruled for 1000 years only the area that is Pakistan. UP, Bihar were ruled for less than 1000 years - but still for far far longer than the rest of India- especially southern parts. No shame in that, it is history.

But trying to gain pride from an ignorance of history and cooked up western racist concepts is not just laughable, it is despicable.

There is no need to be so ashamed of your own background

 

[sam80]

I am sure you can find whatever you want to fit the facts you cook up. I am referring to Afghanistan under early Islamic rule. Was there or was there not any civilization in Afghanistan at that time?

Buddhist Kushan Ruled after Ashoka up 3rd century after him Hindu Rulers Kabul Shahi and Zunbil dynasty were there up 6th century . then Islamic Invaders destroyed everything.

 

[Pratap]

I am sure you can find whatever you want to fit the facts you cook up. I am referring to Afghanistan under early Islamic rule. Was there or was there not any civilization in Afghanistan at that time?

You should first show me some evidence for Hindu civilization in Afghanistan during Ashoka as you claimed.

 

[bennedose]

Here you go Another Self Proclaimed Historian . Just Rulers Changed time to time And Buddhist Rulers were also there , Religion were always complex and mixed Buddhism , Hinduism and others sects all existed until Islamist destroyed them .

Just the answer will do. We all agree that Islam "destroyed them" in Afghanistan just as surely as it did in Bihar and UP. The only question is when that destruction occurred. All these areas, Afghanistan, Punjab. UP and Bihar were subjugated in a remarkably short time. It would be a silly argument to say that the civilization in Afghanistan was destroyed by the Islamic invaders but continued proudly and merrily among the Indo-Aryan speaking Russian descended faie skinned people of Punjab, UP and Bihar. That is nonsense. All those people were simply put down by Islam and they stayed down. In Punjab they converted en masse. Bihar and UP put up some resistance but absorbed language and culture and accepted the rulers.

If Afghanistan today is worse than UP and Bihar it is not because of Islamic invasions 1000 years ago. It is because of more recent history

 

[Pratap]

. You are clutching at western inspired literature and interpretations of the Vedas to gain that pride. Fact is Islam ruled for 1000 years only the area that is Pakistan. UP, Bihar were ruled for less than 1000 years - but still for far far longer than the rest of India- especially southern parts. No shame in that, it is history.

UP and Bihar have been ruled far longer than South just as how Papua New Guinea remained free more than South from foreign invaders. We have produced rulers who have ruled over a large area. Hinduism, Buddhism all emerged in UP and Bihar. We were nearer to Turks, hence defeated.
Mauryans defeated Seleucus Nikator. Who was defeated by Southies?

 

[bennedose]

You should first show me some evidence for Hindu civilization in Afghanistan during Ashoka as you claimed.

I will only show you what you need to learn - of which there is a lot.

 

[Pratap]

. It would be a silly argument to say that the civilization in Afghanistan was destroyed by the Islamic invaders but continued proudly and merrily among the Indo-Aryan speaking Russian descended faie skinned people of Punjab, UP and Bihar. That is nonsense.

South Indians do come as pilgrims in my city. They do not go to Afghanistan. Case closed. Some words mean nothing. The most read book in UP is Ramacharitmanas not Quran or Hadith.
Sothies have no independent culture of their own.

 

[bennedose]

UP and Bihar have been ruled far longer than South just as how Papua New Guinea remained free more than South from foreign invaders. We have produced rulers who have ruled over a large area. Hinduism, Buddhism all emerged in UP and Bihar. We were nearer to Turks, hence defeated.
Mauryans defeated Seleucus Nikator. Who was defeated by Southies?

LOL You are showing how little you know.

I don't have the inferiority complex that you have so I have no need to get into a north vs south mine is bigger argument. You do not need to be ashamed of your history. You have simply absorbed a stupid western view and have done very little other reading and feel so bad and ashamed about your local history that you need to find your pride from idiotic things. If you are a Paki I can't help. If you are Indian, relax. Things are not so bad. You just need a better education.

 

[Pratap]

I will only show you what you need to learn - of which there is a lot.

So you have run away after lying. I am done with such man.