Destabilization of Myanmar: U.S. Plans “Rohingyaland”

[blueblood]

You missed the context (two front war) in which I made that assertion. You missed the important cardinal point i.e. democracy which means there will be stake holders withing Burma to restore stability.

I can explain it further If you would ask and we have a thread on two front war which is now dormant for long. Further more I have already conceded that at present there is no need and It came from my reading of posters @pmaitra @CrYsIs who has forced me to think in terms of first developing NE; which I think is reasonable, before we upgrade our offensive capabilities from present defensive capabilities.

Nah man I get what you meant by "Indian invasion and democracy in Burma". And I can tell you it is a bad idea.

Second, opening up another front in an unknown terrain hardly makes sense. Geography in North East works in India's favour not China's. I think there was a thread about it. I will try to dig it up.

If your argument is for Burma under India's influence to open up a front against China then it is too far fetched. No amount of influence will be enough to convince Burma, same goes for China's influence too.

 

[apple]

would like to apologies to anyone who read my last post, where I used the words Myanmar and Burma interchangeably. I didn't mean to write Burma, I meant the country of Myanmar.

1.Andrew Korybko is a Moscow based reporter working for Western media. He is certainly not anti-West. People suspect he has links deep into US admin. My comments are made assuming this article isn't total B/S.

If you don't recognise that as anti-West you're either lying or very stupid and either way I can't bothered corresponding with you further,

Although, I will comment on the these two points

.People suspect he has links deep into US admin

By "people suspect" you mean person as in singular, as in just you. Profoundly anti-Western, based in Moscow, writing on subjects of which he has no knowledge for some no name blog and you think he has links to the US administration? I'm starting to change my mind about you being either stupid of lying and am suspecting your both

.2. Obviously USA/West are planning an E Timor or Kosovo like solution.

Yeah, and that comment just reinforces my opinion that you're a stupid liar.

 

[DingDong]

India, Bangladesh, Nepal, Bhutan and Myanmar need to form a united front against US-Chinese nexus in the North Eastern neighbourhood of India. This nexus is very deep and malicious.

 

[Khagesh]

I piss on these great power games. That is exactly what these deserve.

Myanmar is perfectly capable of dealing with its troubles without any patronizing 'helping hand' from anybody.

When we Indians see this region we have to ask 2 things:

1) why is India north east more calm compared to Myanmar and
2) why is the south-east Asia doing even better than the Indian north-east.

The answer to the first is the presence of Indian state and the shear size and stability of it.
The answer to the second is economic clout and the negotiating power this allows.

People of Myanmar are in trouble because US and China keep playing great power games. But what they do not understand that just one of these days somebody from one of these subverted countries will strike so bad that they will rue the day they started these great power games at the expense of these smaller countries.

At the same time Myanmar authorities and also India-lead-SAARC should also do more the make economic sense for their people. Probably the reason why Myanmar that is already a member of ASEAN has asked for full membership from both SAARC. ASEAN is already doing good in terms of economic activity.

This region is not doing well because India that is strategically competent is not doing as good economically and ASEAN that is doing well economically is a strategic light weight. So unless ASEAN and SAARC regions do better, in their respective weak points, Myanmar can be expected to remain in troubles.

But till things begin to fall in place, I guess we have to bear these keedas called superpowers.

 

[jouni]

So Rambo was right back in 2008.

 

[hit&run]

Nah man I get it what you meant by "Indian invasion and democracy in Burma". And I can tell you it is a bad idea.

Second, opening up another front in an unknown terrain hardly makes sense. Geography in North East works in India's favour not China's. I think there was a thread about it. I will try to dig it up.

If your argument is for Myanmar under India's influence to open up a front against China then it is too far fetched. No amount of influence will be enough to convince Burma, same goes for China's influence too.

No it doesn't happen like that. Who said it will be opening third front when two fronts are already open. My assertions are not picked from thin air.

One word 'Timing' for what ? to Preempt before two front war kicks in.

1. Keep watching them religiously. Who ? China and Pakistan. Remember Two Front war. What you will watch ? Answer me if you can.

2. Preempt invasion of Myanmar with bloody good excuse ( My excuse Democracy) (you can suggest your excuse). If you can not sell or find your excuse make conditions for one. Get western countries into loop because they have been itching for installing democracy. If you don't know, they have been criticizing India for being benign. The thread itself (if there is any truth is it) is a prof that there are interesting parties already.

3. Answer me why PLA is making Indo-Myanmar border hot ? They have already reduced your capabilities of an invading force to defending force. Think of it.

4. Let China keep thinking once we restore pro India democracy in Myanmar if they will let you use their land against China. Don't self defeat your own advantage.

I will ask you point 3. again please explain why Indian army is getting hit in NE along border with Myanmar. Before we get into this discussion further.

Before concluding I will again reiterate that I have conceded that no such expedition is required or feasible under present circumstances but I will also stick to my previous theory and now I can remember It originated due to lack of range of our ballistic missiles and fortified SCS with InN lacking of long legs at that time including subsurface fleet. With improved range and striking capabilities we can further bring such scenarios towards cold storage if not shredders.

 

[Oblaks]

To stir up a hornet's nest like Burma?[emoji85]

Internal conflict in Burma

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurgency_in_Myanmar

KIA of Kachin is reported to hav an American connection, Shan factions backed by their Thai brethren.

Karen, Naga, Arakan, Wa, Kokang... where the military junta's writ out of Naypyitaw doesn't run often enough. a messy mess to sort out...

some genius recommends India invade Burma to prop up democracy and open a new front there to penetrate China?? [emoji38]

~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~

Ofcourse Cinese trolls will always find a way to connect this issue to either an anti-US rant or a pro-chini sentiment when the truth is this article is plain russian BS

 

[hit&run]

Second, opening up another front in an unknown terrain hardly makes sense. Geography in North East works in India's favour not China's. I think there was a thread about it. I will try to dig it up.

This is a Nehruvian myth floated by pessimist spivs who were courtiers of congress-I party. Faster we get rid of this terrain based advantage better we will be. Do you know China has its own cold start capabilities for NE and it is not land based but with high airborne component.

If your argument is for Burma under India's influence to open up a front against China then it is too far fetched. No amount of influence will be enough to convince Burma, same goes for China's influence too

Ok I give up here, I have given you some food for thought in my above post. We can agree on disagree.

Regards.

 

[blueblood]

One word 'Timing' for what ? to Preempt before two front war kicks in.

In case of two front war. Preempting two nuclear states, of which one is atleast twice as powerful as you are and another is its very rabid and highly suicidal pet. You can see where things can go wrong when "preemption can also mean plain and simple invasion".

1. Keep watching them religiously. Who ? China and Pakistan. Remember Two Front war. What you will watch ? Answer me if you can.

Wouldn't it be better if we continue discussion and not speak in riddles?

2. Preempt invasion of Burma with bloody good excuse ( My excuse Democracy) (you can suggest your excuse). If you can not sell or find your excuse make conditions for one. Get western countries into loop because they have been itching for installing democracy. If you don't know, they have been criticizing India for being benign. The thread itself (if there is any truth is it) is a prof that there are interesting parties already.

You do realize that democracy is a double edged sword even if its a sham democracy and things can go horribly wrong. For eg.

Sri Lanka : Rajpaksha and Sirsena

Bangladesh : Zia and Hasina

Afghanistan : Ghani and Karzai

You are betting a shit load on something you may not be able to control. Because if junta goes bad you can whoop it into shape, can't do the same with an elected govt. can you? Let's see the most popular democratic face of Burma.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/12/w...ar-meets-with-xi-jinping-in-beijing.html?_r=0

3. Answer me why PLA is making Indo-Burma border hot ? They have already reduced your capabilities of an invading force to defending force. Think of it.

What invading force? India and Burma border is neither properly guarded nor is it fenced. Does it not show you the level of threat emitting from Burma?

Chinese are doing what's good for them i.e. tying up India's force in NE. With the up coming MSC, even with its depleted force level was designed for offensive action for the first time in 60 years. Hope that answers your "why".

4. Let China keep thinking once we restore pro India democracy in Burma if they will let you use their land against China. Don't self defeat your own advantage.

Burma is something money can't buy i.e. a militarily strong buffer with very harsh terrain and poor connectivity. And you want to turn this god send advantage into the Russian roulette of democracy.

Before concluding I will again reiterate that I have conceded that no such expedition is required or feasible under present circumstances but I will also stick to my previous theory and now I can remember It originated due to lack of range of our ballistic missiles and fortified SCS with InN lacking of long legs at that time including subsurface fleet. With improved range and striking capabilities we can further bring such scenarios towards cold storage if not shredders.

If somehow you see PLA marching towards Delhi or IA marching towards Bejing, then my friend read up on what "nuclear deterrent" actually means.

PLAN cannot come here and IN cannot go there, not exactly a big surprise now is it?

 

[rockey 71]

I am still not getting gist of your point, Sir.

If there was democracy in West and East Pakistan then your nation would have never required Indian intervention in the first place. Your Democracy was looted in day light and even being in majority and wining the election military rule was imposed.

I am not talking pre-71. I am referring to the present time/rule under Hasina and her BAL.

 

[tarunraju]

Silly article . USA has absolutely nothing to gain from this.

Agreed, and US will only end up making Burma China's biatch.

 

[pmaitra]

You missed the context (two front war) in which I made that assertion. You missed the important cardinal point i.e. democracy which means there will be stake holders withing Burma to restore stability.

I can explain it further If you would ask and we have a thread on two front war which is now dormant for long. Further more I have already conceded that at present there is no need and It came from my reading of posters @pmaitra @CrYsIs who has forced me to think in terms of first developing NE; which I think is reasonable, before we upgrade our offensive capabilities from present defensive capabilities.

Yes, indeed, local development will take the wind out of these separatist tendencies. Once the local population see that they have a better future being in India, they themselves will shun violence. Many people in Kashmir at one point romanticized the ideals of the JKLF, but such people are very few today, as they have realized violence and hatred will not solve any problem.

@rockey 71 pointed out a very interesting facet of history that I was not aware of. Arakan was a separate state, that was geographically divided from the rest of Burma by the mountain range called Arakan Yoma (Arakan Mountains).



If we see the Indo-Burmese border, they roughly follow this geographical divide, and stop abruptly with Mizoram. If the border were to continue south, it would include Arakan firmly within India.

Arakan was defeated and occupied by Burma, but later, The British East India Company managed to take it back from Burma. However, later on, when the whole of South Asia became part of the British Empire, Arakan was included with British Burma, and since then, it has remained a part of Burma, which is now known as Myanmar.

Essentially, the basic Burmese population belongs to the Irrawady basin, which lies between the Arakan Mountains and the Shan Plateau. The regions north-west of the Irrawady Basin is populated by numerous tribes, just like our North East.

Now, the question is, should India try to be friends with Myanmar and help it keep Arakan, or should it allow Arakan to seceded to eventually become part of India? The US would support it, only if a major US military base is allowed in Arakan, which India and PRC will never allow. Therefore, it is in the interests of both PRC and India to ensure that region is stable. That, however, does not explain why PRC is covertly funding the insurgent groups in the North East.

 

[prohumanity]

This article is interesting as it raises good questions. Who wants to create chaos in Myanmar? Why that power wants to do it? And what is at stake ?
BCIM trade corridor is a uniter ..it can create trade flow and people to people contact among 4 countries and lead to harmony among them due to mutual economic gains. BCIM corridors success put multi -polar world on
faster track. India and China can get closer due to increased trade thru BCIM corridor.
Now, you guess....who would not like this to happen ?
Creating enmity between India and China is very crucial for that power in order to maintain its hegemony by age old "divide and rule"

 

[Peter]

Arakan was indeed a separate sate. Those who have played EU 4 would know that Arakan was one of the few states who were Muslim among the predominantly Buddhist kingdoms of South east Asia. In fact Bengal and Arakan sultanates were close to neighbors. Arakan was also known as Rakhine state.

Rakhine State

Rakhine State (Burmese: ရခိုင်ပြည်နယ်; MLCTS: rahkuing pranynai, Rakhine pronunciation[ɹəkʰàiɴ pɹènè]; Burmese pronunciation: [jəkʰàiɴ pjìnɛ̀]; formerly Arakan) is a state in Burma. Situated on the western coast, it is bordered by Chin State in the north, Magway Region, Bago Region and Ayeyarwady Region in the east, the Bay of Bengal to the west, and the Chittagong Division ofBangladesh to the northwest. It is located approximately between latitudes 17°30' north and 21°30' north and east longitudes 92°10' east and 94°50' east. The Arakan Mountains, which rise to 3,063 metres (10,049 ft) at Victoria Peak, separate Rakhine State from central Burma. Off the coast of Rakhine State there are some fairly large islands such as Cheduba and Myingun Island. Rakhine State has an area of 36,762 square kilometres (14,194 sq mi) and its capital is Sittwe.[2]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakhine_State

My belief is that the Arakanese people were probably Bangladeshi Muslims or they may have been Burmese people who converted to Islam after the establishment of a sultanate there by Bangladeshi Muslims.

Anyway an interesting point ton note from Wiki.

It is seen by the Rakhine people as the golden age of their history, as Mrauk U served as a commercially important port and base of power in the Bay of Bengal region and involved in extensive maritime trade with Arabia and Europe.[citation needed] The country steadily declined from the 17th century onwards after the loss of Chittagong to the Mughal Empire in 1666. Internal instability, rebellion and dethroning of kings were very common. The Portuguese, during the era of their greatness in Asia, gained a temporary establishment in Arakan.

 

[Screambowl]

rohingyas had in the past had also demanded themselves to be included in Pakistan

 

[rockey 71]

@pmaitra, @ Screambow,@ Peter

1.If the Sulaiman-Hindukush Ranges are the western edge of the subcontinent, then the Arakan Yoma is so in the east. Even today Arakan is practically cut off from Burma by these high ranges with dense forest infested with wild animals and malarial mosquito. There has been little,if any cultural/social intercourse between the Burmans and the Arakanese over the centuries. The newly Chinese built road linking Akyab is still not a satisfactory route to travel. The standard mode is by ship from Akyab to Yangon taking three and half days. For commerce, foreign travel and for going on Hajj the Arakanese use the BD conduit using falsified documents in BD and by getting temporary pass from Burmese military paying bribe.
2.In 1404 Arakan King Naramikhla fled to Bengal when the King of Ava invaded his land. At the Pandua royal court Naramikhla was well received. Eventually he and his entourage embraced Islam. He adopted the name of Solaiman Shah. With an army provided by the Bengal Sultan Jalaluddin Mohammad Shah, Solaiman reconquered his kingdom and ruled till 1434 when he died. The last ruler in this dynasty was Sultan Ali Shah (1525-1531). Then followed what is called the golden age of Arakan from Sultan Zabuk Shah (1531-1553) to Sultan Salim Shah II (1622-1638). Their capital MrakU was considered the most magnificent and well fortified in the Bay.

 

[Hybrid Content]

Hi Guys,

Here's how baseless Pakistan's claim over Kashmir is. I'd like you comments and opinions on this.

goo.gl/rohA72

It discusses the UN Resolution that practically very Pakistani points, but none seem to have read.

I've got a PDF of the resolution copy if any of you want to read it. Drop me a mail and I'll send it to you hybridin [at] gmail.com.


#JaiHind

 

[Peter]

@pmaitra, @ Screambow,@ Peter

1.If the Sulaiman-Hindukush Ranges are the western edge of the subcontinent, then the Arakan Yoma is so in the east. Even today Arakan is practically cut off from Burma by these high ranges with dense forest infested with wild animals and malarial mosquito. There has been little,if any cultural/social intercourse between the Burmans and the Arakanese over the centuries. The newly Chinese built road linking Akyab is still not a satisfactory route to travel. The standard mode is by ship from Akyab to Yangon taking three and half days. For commerce, foreign travel and for going on Hajj the Arakanese use the BD conduit using falsified documents in BD and by getting temporary pass from Burmese military paying bribe.
2.In 1404 Arakan King Naramikhla fled to Bengal when the King of Ava invaded his land. At the Pandua royal court Naramikhla was well received. Eventually he and his entourage embraced Islam. He adopted the name of Solaiman Shah. With an army provided by the Bengal Sultan Jalaluddin Mohammad Shah, Solaiman reconquered his kingdom and ruled till 1434 when he died. The last ruler in this dynasty was Sultan Ali Shah (1525-1531). Then followed what is called the golden age of Arakan from Sultan Zabuk Shah (1531-1553) to Sultan Salim Shah II (1622-1638). Their capital MrakU was considered the most magnificent and well fortified in the Bay.

I did not know this as it was not there in the net. Thanks for the info.