Delhi University's caste counters spark outrage

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by The Messiah, Jun 11, 2013.

  1. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    Delhi University's caste counters spark outrage

    “I feel I live in South Africa of the apartheid era.” The segregation is not along racial lines but at Delhi University's form counters, the caste divide is too evident and “humiliating” – as is obvious from the statement of a student who belongs to one of the reserved categories and doesn't wish to be identified.

    The university has segregated the sale counters on the basis of caste, a move antithetical to principles of social justice and inclusion.

    On Thursday, at the faculty of arts, the busiest centre for sale of forms, paper slips in bold letters above the sale windows indicated the category of students the counters were meant for.

    While two of the windows were marked general/OBC (other backward classes) forms, the remaining two had SC/ST/PWD (persons with disabilities) written on them.

    Students, understandably, are not happy.

    "I came here with a group of friends. While they are standing in the line for the general category, I have to stand in a different line," said a student, who did not want to be named.

    The university said they realised the mistake and assimilated the centres on Wednesday, the first day forms went on sale.

    "It was decided in a meeting of the centre heads that no such distinction was to be made. We have informed everyone about the decision," JM Khurana, dean, students' welfare, said.

    "It seems the change was not made at the faculty of arts. We will ensure that the notes are removed."

    Delhi University's caste counters spark outrage - Hindustan Times

    The irony of it :hail: :toilet:
     
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  3. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    What's wrong with having separate counters for administrative reasons? Maybe the SC/ST/PWD category students were embarrassed at being identified openly as those that are gaining advantages at the cost of everyone else? :hmm:
     
  4. parijataka

    parijataka Senior Member Senior Member

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    @Known_Unknown - reading on Net your favourite party planning reservations in private sector along with FSB before 2014 general elections. sonia mata & rahul ji ki jai - bharat ki naiyya dubo ke rahenge... :)
     
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  5. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Senior Member

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    Yeah.

    "We want caste benefits, we just don't want anyone to know about it".
     
  6. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    If we have a pie, and there are three claimants, if three slices are made of it, the first one goes to one claimant, the second goes to the next claimant, and the remaining slice goes to the remaining claimant.

    Basically, there is reservation for all.
     
  7. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    This is the type of discrimination that rankles.

    Even if for administrative efficiency, it should not be done.

    A little bit of effort to separate the categories, if required for administrative reasons, would go a long way in making India one homogenous entity of people, rather that constantly reminding all of the various irrational, if I may say divides of our Indian society.

    But the politicians and political parties, for their selfish reasons, have ingrained into our psyche and thought that we are a divided people, in different compartment and these politicians make much of this so that even normal people and organisation feel it is par for the course!
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
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  8. ladder

    ladder Senior Member Senior Member

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    This segregation was done for administrative easiness as the forms are generally subsidized for certain categories.
    But if some section felt the system was humiliating they have all rights to complain and it's good to see that the system has been changed according to the complaint.

    You and I may not agree to the current system of reservation in India but it does not help to segregate at individual level and in discrete manner, when the purpose of reservation was assimilation of certain section of society in the mainstream.Though as of today it may or may not be serving the purpose for which it was originally envisioned for.

    Today as it stands the lacunae of the reservation system is vote bank politics rather than the mentality of individual beneficiary.

    Well, all this will be an non issue with online forms, which colleges are migrating to, where offers greater degree of anonymity.

    But, the demand for 100% anonymity around a candidates caste may not possible due to practical problems and so, don't ask and don't tell policy cannot be made operational.
    But, that doesn't mean out one should not iron out practices which are potentially discriminatory.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
  9. VIP

    VIP Ultra Nationalist Senior Member

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    What about bigger section aka Open category which feels humiliation by this caste based reservation in education itself.....??
    What's wrong with such separate counters, in my uni, it's been used from a long time. Why should one have problem if it eases admin procedure ?? Just because they are from backward class ?? Than why the fk reservation on 1st place ??

    The purpose of reservation is not assimilation of certain caste, it's for votebank purpose. Screw you Congress.....The prime reason I hate congress for ACTUALLY dividing people....

    Ab to lagta hai ladies bhi bolegi hamari line alag mat karo....huh...
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
  10. ladder

    ladder Senior Member Senior Member

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    No, I didn't mean to counter your statement by stating that reservation in its present form fulfills its original envisioned role.

    What I wanted to say was that it doesn't help bringing this to individual level where a person has to be made to acknowledge that he/she is drawing benefits from certain state policies and that he/she has to be ever grateful to a certain non-existent entity who has been victimized by this policy and has un-willingly made sacrifices to something that otherwise would have been his/hers.

    Yes, you are right in mentioning that rot lies in political class and not at individual level.

    But, in a trade-off between administrative easiness and countering individual humiliation, I think the later wins.

    And, for girls, some states do have reservation of 33%, at-least my state had this for engineering courses.( this was a few years back when I was a student. I don't know what's the situation now.)

    And for the feeling of humiliation faced by GC students it is more of resentment.

    Resentment | So what I really meant...

    So, the felling is rightfully directed towards the political class and not the individual beneficiary.

    For you and me we can raise the bar of standard of education higher so that everyone and any-one who is not up-to the mark won't be able to complete the course.
    But, if he/she completes successfully then there should be no question to his/her ability.

    Reservation are here to stay for a long time in India immaterial to whether you or me like it or not.

    There is a proverb which states

    What's can't be cured must be endured.

    Modifying it for lacunae in reservation policy

    It should be endured till it's cured.

    And, it will be reformed because in today's market every-one scouts for talent and no bill will be able to circumvent that into making a private profit making agency into accepting any one mediocre.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
  11. VIP

    VIP Ultra Nationalist Senior Member

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    Not every market runs on the basis of talent. Medical field which I'm studying right now doesn't need talent per say,it needs degree, once you get it ,you are done. I don't wanna go in details and you didn't get my point regarding Ladies counter. And the mentality like reservation will here to stay Deal with it, is actually not good. For this people and some mfker morons blindly opposing brain drain and demanding radical steps to stop it, Brain drain will continue and for that ,Deal with it,too.
     
  12. TrueSpirit

    TrueSpirit Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well, this analogy is incorrect. This is not how reservation or "affirmative action" in India works.

    If possible for you, try reading the guidelines for any competitive exam in India (details could be found in Employment news- a weekly publication), being held for admission into academic institutions or for public service.

    Basically, only the reserved categories are actually reserved ; while the remaining seats/posts are free/open to all. If a reserved category candidate could manage to get across (score more) the minimum threshold determined for that category, he is eligible for securing his seat from the General quota, while the reserved quota would still be filled by candidates from reserved category. This is a universal system in India & there are no exceptions/aberrations in the reservation system I have explained.

    Most of the people who have competed for public sector jobs/university research positions would know this.
     
  13. aerokan

    aerokan Regular Member

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    Classic misdirection!!! :tsk:

    "If we have a pie, and there are three claimants, if three slices are made of it, the first one goes to one claimant, the second goes to the next claimant, and the remaining slice goes to whoever can grab it first"
     
  14. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    One cannot get away with race..If you are black you are black.

    The problem with caste is everyone wants to look high caste and can pull it off if not forced to go to segregated counters..I think people should be more comfortable about their caste, only then things can change..If you get a benefit, you get a benefit, what is the big deal about it!! An individual is not responsible for the state laws.
     
  15. aerokan

    aerokan Regular Member

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    Damn straight!!! There are people who are proud of their caste whether they are SC ST or any other caste. How can anybody insult a person who don't feel insulted to be of particular caste!! All these reservation and other supposed policies which 'set things right' do more harm to the psyche than it helps. And we have people supporting it as necessary evil. What a farce!!!
     
  16. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    I hate to break this to you, that I know of at least one example where a person is legally obligated to disclose his category, and any misrepresentation subjects the candidate to rejection.

    Talking about reading the guidelines, I am saying this only because I have read the form of at least one chain of institutes.
     
  17. TrueSpirit

    TrueSpirit Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yeah, everyone is obligated to disclose his category in all UPSC/State level as well as academic exams. So, what's new here ?

    What I am saying is :

    It's not some jugaad or "workaround" I am talking about. The above mentioned rule (highlighted in BOLD) is the rule across India, without 1 exception. This is what @aerokan is trying to explain. Maybe, you are somewhat unfamiliar with the system here, but there are people working with Defence PSU's on DFI, you can ask them. A simple search on UPSC website would explain the whole system to you.

    The simple fact is: the remaining slice (unreserved seats of General category ) goes to whoever can secure it with his marks.

    Please let me know if you have not understood the system yet.
     
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  18. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Yes, I know what you are saying, and I am saying that what you are saying is wrong.

    You are saying general category seats are open to all. That is what it should be, but the point is, there is a clause (in the form I mentioned) that says no person is allowed to misrepresent his category. It is made to look like as if they are trying to prevent Caste Hindus from claiming SC/ST/OBC reserved seats, but in reality a person from SC/ST/OBC category is also denied a seat in general category, because this rule applies to all.

    So your claim that general category seats are open to all is not true. The truth is, general category seats are reserved strictly for general category, so everyone has his own slice from the cake.
     
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  19. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Senior Member

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    Actually, no. General category seats are open for all. While a certain percentage of the seats are reserved for the castes and minorities depending on the laws of the state and the university.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
  20. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    General category seats are not open to all. That is a misconception. Perhaps in some board exams, but in quite a few, I have seen it explicitly mentioned, that no one (regardless of his category), is allowed to misrepresent his category, and I have not seen a single form that gives the option to a reserved candidate to disclose his/her category and express desire to compete in general category.

    So what you are saying is, for the third time, w-r-o-n-g. :)
     
  21. TrueSpirit

    TrueSpirit Senior Member Senior Member

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    @pmaitra: Thanks for understanding the point I was conveying.:thumb:

    But, I do not think it is a debatable topic at all. I know for a fact that: general category seats are not reserved strictly for general category.

    I mean, I do not see any scope for doubt. I am not saying it can be any different in different institutions. It is just one rule in India that applies everywhere without any exception. Well, whenever you get time or chance either refer to Employment News, UPSC website or simply ask anyone who has joined a govt. job in the last 20 years. Everyone knows it.
     
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