Delhi open to Kabul arms request

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

The key hardware Afghanistan wants include 105-mm howitzer, a robust and rugged weapon India has used for years. The Afghan army has an estimated 84 second-hand D.30 howitzer donated by Slovakia and Bosnia. The Afghan army also has an estimated two dozen 155-mm Korean war vintage M-114A1 howitzers.

In addition, Afghanistan wants urgent assistance to get its mothballed fleet of Antonov An.32 medium transport aircraft back into the air. Earlier this year, the Afghan army lost its second-hand Finmeccanica G.222 transports, after the United States cancelled the $317 million deal which had enabled their induction in 2008. The G.222s had to be grounded because of airworthiness problems in December, 2011 and March, 2012. The Afghan army is now forced to operate using a fleet of six Cessna 182 light transports, essentially commuter planes.

Karzai wants to have the six An.32s given to his country by the Soviet Union refitted in the Ukraine, where the Indian Air Force is upgrading its own fleet of 105 aircraft. according web sources the An.32 which, brand new, comes with a price tag of $6-9 million—is a rugged aircraft that has proven itself in high-altitude regions with poor airstrips.

The Afghan army may, in the future, also consider requesting service infrastructure for its helicopter fleet India. The country now has 40-plus Mi.8/Mi.17 transport helicopters, as well as 11 Mi.35 attack helicopters—adequate to meet its needs. It is short, though, of engineers to keep the fleet flying.

thus wee need to provide what is necessary according to current need the we can supply them with all the better stuff later

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Why India is concerned about supplying arms to Afghanistan

For India, the costs of this kit are small change—

Finally, and most important, there's Pakistan. For its own reasons, New Delhi does not want to be seen as backing territorial revisionism in the region. It also worries that military support to Kabul could end any hopes of dialogue with Prime Minister-in-waiting Nawaz Sharif.

Indian-provided artillery hitting Pakistani troops across the Durand Line will, without doubt, kill off any prospect of forward movement in bilateral ties. It's also true, though, that bar ideological proponents of India-Pakistan peace, few think there's much left to be salvaged from the dialogue process. Ever since 2008, when General Pervez Musharraf was forced out of office, the Prime Minister's Pakistan policies have yielded diminishing returns—a point illustrated in stark relief by 26/11 and the country's accelerating tactical nuclear weapons programme.

Source : Why India is concerned about supplying arms to Afghanistan - Firstpost

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You have a Friend a Strategic Friend who is bleeding and asking for help, And you have a enemy who has back-stab you countless times, Who will you support ? A kinder-garden kid could answer that ..

Pakistan sell arms to Bangladesh, Srilanka, Nepal from small arms to ATGM & MANPADS..

Btw, China is looking Into Afghan and will sale weapons to them and we will keep losing allies like this, Bhutan stays with India still coz we help them military, Who makes these silly foreign policies..

 

[datguy79]

The key hardware Afghanistan wants include 105-mm howitzer, a robust and rugged weapon India has used for years. The Afghan army has an estimated 84 second-hand D.30 howitzer donated by Slovakia and Bosnia. The Afghan army also has an estimated two dozen 155-mm Korean war vintage M-114A1 howitzers.

In addition, Afghanistan wants urgent assistance to get its mothballed fleet of Antonov An.32 medium transport aircraft back into the air. Earlier this year, the Afghan army lost its second-hand Finmeccanica G.222 transports, after the United States cancelled the $317 million deal which had enabled their induction in 2008. The G.222s had to be grounded because of airworthiness problems in December, 2011 and March, 2012. The Afghan army is now forced to operate using a fleet of six Cessna 182 light transports, essentially commuter planes.

Karzai wants to have the six An.32s given to his country by the Soviet Union refitted in the Ukraine, where the Indian Air Force is upgrading its own fleet of 105 aircraft. according web sources the An.32 which, brand new, comes with a price tag of $6-9 million—is a rugged aircraft that has proven itself in high-altitude regions with poor airstrips.

The Afghan army may, in the future, also consider requesting service infrastructure for its helicopter fleet India. The country now has 40-plus Mi.8/Mi.17 transport helicopters, as well as 11 Mi.35 attack helicopters—adequate to meet its needs. It is short, though, of engineers to keep the fleet flying.

thus wee need to provide what is necessary according to current need the we can supply them with all the better stuff later

Regarding transport planes, Karzai ordered $100 million to be released to the MoD for purchasing 5 An-74s. This coupled with the 4 C-130 Hercules we will be getting from the US will probably be the forefront of AFG's transport capabilities.

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

the best immediate solution is get weapons from Russia since they are already familiar with most of the soviet weapons and get training from India. Afghanistan currently does not have the facilities nor man power to sustain modern weapons so lets start with basics an cost effective weapons which points to Russia they have vast storages of weapon systems added to that we can supply them with Vijayanta tanks and T55 with reasonable upgrades form our storage's once considerable maintenance facilities and skill man power is available then it good to go with ALH , PINAKA etal

 

[farhan_9909]

Wary of Pakistan, India hesitant over Karzai wish list for military ha

Wary of Pakistan, India hesitant over Karzai wish list for military hardware

NEW DELHI: In the backdrop of a Nato withdrawal and fears of a Taliban resurgence, Afghan President Hamid Karzai on Tuesday said he had given the Indian government a 'wish list' for military equipment. The list, said sources, comes after considerable discussions with Afghanistan on what exactly they would want. New Delhi has committed to provide training, equipment and capacity building for Afghan armed forces as part of the strategic partnership pact signed in 2011.

However, India appears more hesitant this time, largely because of the Pakistan factor. Afghan foreign minister Zalmai Rassoul observed, "A decade ago the BJP government wanted to help us militarily but we refused, due to Pakistan's sensitivities. This time, we are keen, but India is hesitant."

In response, MEA spokesman Syed Akbaruddin said, "There was a discussion on political and security issues, without going into specifics. But he said at the end of Karzai's visit, the nation stood ready to help in all the areas that Afghanistan asked for.

"India is ready to stand by Afghanistan as a close, friendly and historic neighbour through these transitions and will play a due and responsible role in this regard," he added.

Karzai took a more diplomatic approach. "We understand when India can help and when it cannot," he said. Addressing a press conference before returning to Kabul, Karzai said in relation to India's economic capacity, it had been the largest donor in Afghanistan. While he did not specify what exactly he had asked for, officials said Afghanistan had asked for artillery and attack helicopters.

India's hesitation this time seems to stem from certain factors: Pakistan is certainly on UPA's mind, particularly if they want to be cordial with the Nawaz Sharif government and are not sure how this would play out in Islamabad. Second, India's own defence hardware is of rather low order. In fact, New Delhi is the world's largest importer of military hardware itself.

The future of the Taliban-Afghan peace process may also have an effect. Karzai sought to dispel any notion that he might continue as president after 2014. "There are two reasons. First, I am exhausted, and I want to retire. Second, why would I ruin my legacy and take an opportunity away from Afghanistan to become an institutionalized democracy? It's not good for me or Afghanistan," he explained.


Wary of Pakistan, India hesitant over Karzai wish list for military hardware - The Times of India

 

[mikhail]

Re: Wary of Pakistan, India hesitant over Karzai wish list for militar

Wary of Pakistan, India hesitant over Karzai wish list for military hardware

NEW DELHI: In the backdrop of a Nato withdrawal and fears of a Taliban resurgence, Afghan President Hamid Karzai on Tuesday said he had given the Indian government a 'wish list' for military equipment. The list, said sources, comes after considerable discussions with Afghanistan on what exactly they would want. New Delhi has committed to provide training, equipment and capacity building for Afghan armed forces as part of the strategic partnership pact signed in 2011.

However, India appears more hesitant this time, largely because of the Pakistan factor. Afghan foreign minister Zalmai Rassoul observed, "A decade ago the BJP government wanted to help us militarily but we refused, due to Pakistan's sensitivities. This time, we are keen, but India is hesitant."

In response, MEA spokesman Syed Akbaruddin said, "There was a discussion on political and security issues, without going into specifics. But he said at the end of Karzai's visit, the nation stood ready to help in all the areas that Afghanistan asked for.

"India is ready to stand by Afghanistan as a close, friendly and historic neighbour through these transitions and will play a due and responsible role in this regard," he added.

Karzai took a more diplomatic approach. "We understand when India can help and when it cannot," he said. Addressing a press conference before returning to Kabul, Karzai said in relation to India's economic capacity, it had been the largest donor in Afghanistan. While he did not specify what exactly he had asked for, officials said Afghanistan had asked for artillery and attack helicopters.

India's hesitation this time seems to stem from certain factors: Pakistan is certainly on UPA's mind, particularly if they want to be cordial with the Nawaz Sharif government and are not sure how this would play out in Islamabad. Second, India's own defence hardware is of rather low order. In fact, New Delhi is the world's largest importer of military hardware itself.

The future of the Taliban-Afghan peace process may also have an effect. Karzai sought to dispel any notion that he might continue as president after 2014. "There are two reasons. First, I am exhausted, and I want to retire. Second, why would I ruin my legacy and take an opportunity away from Afghanistan to become an institutionalized democracy? It's not good for me or Afghanistan," he explained.


Wary of Pakistan, India hesitant over Karzai wish list for military hardware - The Times of India

come on mate do you think we are being hesitant in supplying lethal weaponry to Afganistan because we are wary of your country:shocked:!i mean really!Pakistan can't do a s**T even if we decide to supply them hundreds of Arjun MK-I MBTs and other lethal stuff.the reason for this hesitance is we are not a rogue country like yours so we want to make a cautious approach in this matter.first we are gonna talk with Iran and the U.S. about this and only if we can get their affirmation we'll go ahead and supply them some military hardware:ranger:

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

India weighs up military assistance to Afghanistan

India is being urged to take a more active role in Afghanistan in the wake of next year's NATO withdrawal and deteriorating relations with Pakistan.President Hamid Karzai has formally requested New Delhi to provide military equipment, including sophisticated weapons, fighter planes, armoured vehicles, heavy artillery, and a range of other equipment among others.

Afghanistan is bracing for a series of transitions beginning in 2014 – the pulling out of US troops and transfer of the security burden to Afghan forces, the likely end of Karzai's presidency once his second term is over, and the doubtful prospects of a political resolution between the Afghan state and the Taliban.

Though such demands from Afghanistan to India are not new, it is clear Kabul wants New Delhi to increase its presence in areas as the military and police training camps, small arms training and other areas in combat field.

Lieutenant General Sawhney, former deputy chief of the Indian army and an expert on Afghanistan says India has big stakes.

"All the changes that have taken place in Afghanistan in the last ten years, all these will only continue to stay," he said.

"The country can only progress if their security is guaranteed [and] India has a stake in ensuring that this country remains secure.

"Their army is one of the primary guarantors of this security, so we will have to look into this – for the security of the region, for global security and our own security."

Security expert Sushant Sareen says an increase in India's involvement may be viewed with distrust by India's regional rival and Afghanistan's neighbour, Pakistan.

"I think they will think it really amiss, but that should not be any reason for India not to help the legitimate government in Afghanistan for the kind of equipment they feel they require to keep the Taliban at bay," he said.

"If the Afghan government requires any equipment, I see no reason why we should not help them."

India already provides limited military assistance to Afghanistan, mainly in the form of training Afghan security personnel, under the bilateral strategic partnership agreement of 2011.

Foreign policy expert Sandeep Dikshit says India should stay this course.

"I think the weapons should be given to the Afghans by those who are already working in Afghanistan – by which I mean ISAF – which means NATO weapons," he said.

"They will be more comfortable working with those weapons while India can carry on with training.

"Training is seen as benign in nature, and it would really suit India to really train people, because given the state of relations with Pakistan, it would not be wise to stir up things in Afghanistan and raise Pakistan's suspicions."

Many Indians believe the Taliban took power in the 1990s with the help of Pakistan army.

General Sawhney says transporting arms to Afghanistan is a decision that might trouble Pakistan, and force them to act.

"If, suppose, they don't take kindly to our supply of weapons, then they (Pakistan) in turn should give a guarantee of sorts to Afghanistan and the region that they will not repeat what they did in the 90s," he said.

"That is something which is incumbent upon them – this is a complicated problem, which despite all the goodwill, we want to project for Pakistan [that] the newly elected government cannot be wished away."

India has invested more than $2 billion in Afghanistan – the largest amount of external aid given by India to any country.

Most of this investment has been done in Afghanistan's infrastructure, including construction of highways and hospitals, and electricity projects for rural areas.

Security expert Sushant Sareen says Mr Karzai's request is justifiable.

"It is a different matter whether we feel we are up to supplying everything that he has asked for, fulfilling his wish list," he said

"That's a different matter altogether – but as far the legitimacy of the request is concerned, I don't think there can be any question about it."

India weighs up military assistance to Afghanistan | ABC Radio Australia

 

[arp2041]

Nope....Not a Good Idea.....

We don't know who will rule Kabul come 2014.

We should be aware that there is POSSIBILITY of our arms falling in the hands of Taliban & through it to Pakistan.

 

[freakinghell]

i'd say we should supply whatever they are asking for. but not for free.

most people in afg are hostile to us. half of afg live in pakistan, those living in afg have relatives in pak. they will be supporting pak over us. there shouldn't be any doubt about that.

karazai govt is utterly weak, some afghans support it most consider it to be american installed puppets. afghanistan is bastically a pakistani colony. most pashtuns are pro taliban. NATO could not eliminate talibs because of this very reason. post 2014 pakis will do their best to get taliban back into power. then there are tajiks, uzbeks etc.

India should just stay away from that sh-thole that is afghanistan. their hatred for hindus and sikhs is far greater than their hate for pakis. post 2014 whatever schools, hospitals we've built there will be blown to pieces. we should just see them as a customer for our equipment and end aid ka bandar baat jo hamne laga rakha hai waha.

 

[datguy79]

i'd say we should supply whatever they are asking for. but not for free.

most people in afg are hostile to us. half of afg live in pakistan, those living in afg have relatives in pak. they will be supporting pak over us. there shouldn't be any doubt about that.

karazai govt is utterly weak, some afghans support it most consider it to be american installed puppets. afghanistan is bastically a pakistani colony. most pashtuns are pro taliban. NATO could not eliminate talibs because of this very reason. post 2014 pakis will do their best to get taliban back into power. then there are tajiks, uzbeks etc.

India should just stay away from that sh-thole that is afghanistan. their hatred for hindus and sikhs is far greater than their hate for pakis. post 2014 whatever schools, hospitals we've built there will be blown to pieces. we should just see them as a customer for our equipment and end aid ka bandar baat jo hamne laga rakha hai waha.

All stuff you pulled out of your ass, good job:thumb:

 

[Abhijeet Dey]

If India can't supply weapons to Afghans (due to Pakistan) then only option is USA. If not then they can ask Iran due to Shia-Sunni divide.

 

[freakinghell]

just my observation.. you know. nothing personal.

 

[freakinghell]

If India can't supply weapons to Afghans (due to Pakistan) then only option is USA. If not then they can ask Iran due to Shia-Sunni divide.

we shouldn't care what pakistan thinks. they supply to India's neighbors, get weapons from other indian neighbor china. but situation in afghanistan is unclear. we shouldn't support one faction over other. better concentrate on solving our internal problems.. let ISI have afghanistan......

 

[arnabmit]

Give exclusive access to mines and resources, take weapons in return...

 

[TrueSpirit]

i'd say we should supply whatever they are asking for. but not for free.

most people in afg are hostile to us. half of afg live in pakistan, those living in afg have relatives in pak. they will be supporting pak over us. there shouldn't be any doubt about that.

karazai govt is utterly weak, some afghans support it most consider it to be american installed puppets. afghanistan is bastically a pakistani colony. most pashtuns are pro taliban. NATO could not eliminate talibs because of this very reason. post 2014 pakis will do their best to get taliban back into power. then there are tajiks, uzbeks etc.

India should just stay away from that sh-thole that is afghanistan. their hatred for hindus and sikhs is far greater than their hate for pakis. post 2014 whatever schools, hospitals we've built there will be blown to pieces. we should just see them as a customer for our equipment and end aid ka bandar baat jo hamne laga rakha hai waha.

@freakinghell: You are one hell of a realist. I support your view on this, out & out.

 

[datguy79]

just my observation.. you know. nothing personal.

None taken. However, some members of DFI comment on Afghan affairs while having the same degree of foresight as I would on a thread discussing Rafale specs.

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

like kunal mentioned we can offer the our T55's upgraded which help them a lot till they get on their feet , can supply marksmen, mine protected Vehicle's, supply them INSAS, BMP's , there is quite a few even if democracy fall those weapons can't be a game changer

 

[pmaitra]

i'd say we should supply whatever they are asking for. but not for free.

most people in afg are hostile to us. half of afg live in pakistan, those living in afg have relatives in pak. they will be supporting pak over us. there shouldn't be any doubt about that.

karazai govt is utterly weak, some afghans support it most consider it to be american installed puppets. afghanistan is bastically a pakistani colony. most pashtuns are pro taliban. NATO could not eliminate talibs because of this very reason. post 2014 pakis will do their best to get taliban back into power. then there are tajiks, uzbeks etc.

India should just stay away from that sh-thole that is afghanistan. their hatred for hindus and sikhs is far greater than their hate for pakis. post 2014 whatever schools, hospitals we've built there will be blown to pieces. we should just see them as a customer for our equipment and end aid ka bandar baat jo hamne laga rakha hai waha.

How many Afghans do you know personally?

I know at least a score of them, and from diverse backgrounds as well, starting from Herat, Ghazni, to Mazar-e-Sharif, and of course Kabul.

I think you spend too much time fighting with people on YouTube, and perhaps that is the reason why you are mistaking many Paki Afghan wannabes as true Afghans.

Keep up. As long as people like you exist, there will be no dearth of your so called "anti-Hindu" people.

 

[freakinghell]

How many Afghans do you know personally?

I know at least a score of them, and from diverse backgrounds as well, starting from Herat, Ghazni, to Mazar-e-Sharif, and of course Kabul.

I think you spend too much time fighting with people on YouTube, and perhaps that is the reason why you are mistaking many Paki Afghan wannabes as true Afghans.

Keep up. As long as people like you exist, there will be no dearth of your so called "anti-Hindu" people.

what i wrote was my impression of afghan people and society. you may have your own, and in disagreement with mine. so... feel free to disagree.

anyway, let us pretend they don't dislike/hate indians. so what? spending billions in aid is something i'd never advocate for. we have millions who go to sleep with empty bellies. maybe 20-40 years from now, when we are well off we can go places, invest in afg and counter ISI influence there. but it doesn't make sense to me at the moment. yes, there resources are something we could use, but again they are under taliban.. all our money will go waste. Even afghans realize that there can not be peace in afghanistan without pakistani consent.. i.e. ISI's consent.

we'd be making a fool of ourselves if we provide karzai with weapons and 5 years down the line we see talibans using those weapons to do their terrorism. so instead, we should just see them as a customer. sell them stuff only if they are willing to pay.

again, this is my own opinion. you can disagree. i do not care-

 

[Singh]

Delhi shouldn't only arm the Afghan National Army, but also militias and warlords opposed to Taliban esp the Tajiks, and Hazaras.