Defence Ministry panel to trim forces

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Numbers was and always will be the most deciding factor in the battlefield.

So more mental mas$# bation by Govt.

During last phase WW 2 Germany was forced to to put kids on front line since there were very few able body adult.

Although Germany had most superior military hardware in WW 2 and which US,Brits and Soviets could dream of.

Their Tanks outgunned Allies,they made V2 rocket,early jet engine etc


But they had no men left to use that stuff but Kids.


Pow German kids not more than 14

View attachment 8500



Plus India is a 3rd world country with pathetic arms industry let alone cutting edge technologies in military.Numbers are all we have.

I always love this quality vs quantity debate when we have none!! May be we have latter in few cases!

 

[Razor]

Somebody said "Quantity has a quality all its own"

 

[Bornubus]

I always love this quality vs quantity debate when we have none!! May be we have latter in few cases!

Even Pakis have 6 lakh troops and large number of Jihadi militia let alone China.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

O yeah... And I forgot to add the most important part. They will trim the size while recruiting women troops. I mean what is GoI smoking. Seriously!!

 

[Razor]

India has one of the lowest troops to population ratio and one of the lowest police personnel to population ratio in the world.
And now they want to reduce further?

 

[Indx TechStyle]

You don't understand the point of having an army of 1.5 million.

Since they are there, there won't be no war. So it does not mean we dismantle the army. It is because those 1.5 million are working, that we can avoid war. But if you make it say 0.1 million, the situation will change and there can be war because enemy thinks that we don't have enough force. Case in point -1962, when China knew we are not prepared.

A bigger army is deterrent. It is exactly like putting X-ray machines on every entry of Delhi Metro. There would be hardly 1 or 2 attacks in 10 years but that does not mean we allow them to happen and stop putting X-rays everywhere. Deterrent is important and that is where the quantity comes into play.

Ofcourse, not saying quality is not important. Also, cannot argue on precise numbers which will be good for India i.e. whether we need 1.5 or 1.2 million!!

Buddy buddy buddy,
Who's saying we are reducing to 0.1 million? 1 million first class equipped force is nice for bullying anyone.
Numbers can later be increased after expertizing.

Numbers was and always will be the most deciding factor in the battlefield.

So more mental mas$# bation by Govt.

During last phase WW 2 Germany was forced to to put kids on front line since there were very few able body adult.

Although Germany had most superior military hardware in WW 2 and which US,Brits and Soviets could dream of.

Their Tanks outgunned Allies,they made V2 rocket,early jet engine etc


But they had no men left to use that stuff but Kids.


Pow German kids not more than 14

View attachment 8500



Plus India is a 3rd world country with pathetic arms industry let alone cutting edge technologies in military.Numbers are all we have.

Do you know why such step is under consideration even after a pathetic arms industry? :biggrin2:
Answer, it isn't pathetic anymore.
India will be producing 60-70% equipment homemade and exporting $1 billion.
There's a plan of induction of huge number of UAV in all forces (remember that $3 billions deal last month?) and automation of border security system.
Modern Wars aren't dependent on numbers only, though I don't say numbers aren't important but army must not be too large that you can't maintain it and suffer with shortage of guns, bulletproof jackets etc..
Seriously, it costs more than you earn in interests.
In the threads of PSU and Strategic Issues, we've been discussing of some nice equipments which could be inducted in near future. I do believe, army may be trimmed but only if projects are implemented on time.
After all, One Million Strong Well equipped force can definitely outshine poorly equipped 1.3 million force. That's my point. We aren't making army shrink at such huge extents.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Buddy buddy buddy,
Who's saying we are reducing to 0.1 million? 1 million first class equipped force is nice for bullying anyone.
Numbers can later be increased after expertizing.

Do you know why such step is under consideration even after a pathetic arms industry? :biggrin2:
Answer, it isn't pathetic anymore.
India will be producing 60-70% equipment homemade and exporting $1 billion.
There's a plan of induction of huge number of UAV in all forces (remember that $3 billions deal last month?) and automation of border security system.
Modern Wars aren't dependent on numbers only, though I don't say numbers aren't important but army must not be too large that you can't maintain it and suffer with shortage of guns, bulletproof jackets etc..
Seriously, it costs more than you earn in interests.
In the threads of PSU and Strategic Issues, we've been discussing of some nice equipments which could be inducted in near future. I do believe, army may be trimmed but only if projects are implemented on time.
After all, One Million Strong Well equipped force can definitely outshine poorly equipped 1.3 million force. That's my point. We aren't making army shrink at such huge extents.

Genius--how did you come to 1 million figure? What makes you think it is good enough?

Also going from 1.5 to 1 million is 50% reduction and not small figure.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

India has one of the lowest troops to population ratio and one of the lowest police personnel to population ratio in the world.
And now they want to reduce further?

Reason is that here Army has to compete with high paying private companies. (No wonder why we spend most on salary in world).
Even then, we managed to get such a big army.
Anyway, we aren't alone. Our neighbor is also facing similar problems.

 

[Razor]

Even Pakis have 6 lakh troops and large number of Jihadi militia let alone China.

PRC has something called the PLA militia, to assist PLA during war.
At its peak numbered well over 10 million.
I think the number now would be 6-8 mils.

This below is from 2010.

The Chinese Minister of National Defense Gen. Liang Guanglie said in an interview with Xinhua on 29 December 2010 that China had reduced the number of people in its militias from 10 million to eight million over the past five years. It is the first time the Chinese government had given the exact number of people in the reserve forces and militias. In times of emergencies, the reserve forces and militias can be ordered to assist China's 2.3-million regular troops [according to the Xinhua repoot], the People's Liberation Army (PLA).

What are India's reserve, paramil and militia forces numbers?

Rough calculation by myself, say around 4 mil tops. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

What makes you think it is good enough?

Also going from 1.5 to 1 million is 50% reduction and not small figure.

Two points:
1. Our Army is around 1.325 millions and not 1.5 millions at all.
2. Only around 1.25 millions are active among them.
Not a big difference between 1 million and 1.2 millions.
Israel had screwed up mid East with a tiny army.
we aren't as good equipped as Israel is, yet we are improving and and advantage of size.
Simply,
Yes, I agree that large size is advantage until it hits your back in such pathetic way that 3 lakh soldiers become deprived of bullet proof jackets.

Genius--how did you come to 1 million figure?

I don't know are you taunting me or comparing or suspecting to be that braincell communist person @genius who has so much love for Chinis in his heart.
On Topic:-
Have been debating on Twitter, FB, G+ from hours.
Though there's no confirmation of reduction of size,
Because GoI has only talked about not to increase size, no confirmation of reduction of size.
So, debating and concluded a sizeable army of one million out if 1.2 millions standing army would be enough with some significantly better caps. We still lag behind US, Russia and China in terms if military power. Need to do something about it too.

 

[Razor]

Reason is that here Army has to compete with high paying private companies. (No wonder why we spend most on salary in world).
Even then, we managed to get such a big army.
Anyway, we aren't alone. Our neighbor is also facing similar problems.

Dude, there are plenty of people who aren't tedchnically/academically/etc qualified enough to get into said pvt. companies.

 

[rock127]

Where is this 1.5M stat coming from?

I read it's 1.3M and 1.1M reserve of Armed forces and it doesn't includes Para.

We can't trim it further based on the 2 big enemies ie. China and Pak whose combined is almost twice.

 

[Bornubus]

Buddy buddy buddy,
Who's saying we are reducing to 0.1 million? 1 million first class equipped force is nice for bullying anyone.
Numbers can later be increased after expertizing.

Do you know why such step is under consideration even after a pathetic arms industry? :biggrin2:
Answer, it isn't pathetic anymore.
India will be producing 60-70% equipment homemade and exporting $1 billion.
There's a plan of induction of huge number of UAV in all forces (remember that $3 billions deal last month?) and automation of border security system.
Modern Wars aren't dependent on numbers only, though I don't say numbers aren't important but army must not be too large that you can't maintain it and suffer with shortage of guns, bulletproof jackets etc..
Seriously, it costs more than you earn in interests.
In the threads of PSU and Strategic Issues, we've been discussing of some nice equipments which could be inducted in near future. I do believe, army may be trimmed but only if projects are implemented on time.
After all, One Million Strong Well equipped force can definitely outshine poorly equipped 1.3 million force. That's my point. We aren't making army shrink at such huge extents.

Lamo same old - Will,could,should doesn't mean anything, Indians should first achieve something in military tech before bragging.As of now most of our hardware are imports.

As for the consideration, yeah they consider a lot of thing at best MOD will make a panel whose recommendation will come after 5 years.This is how things get done in MOD.

There is no trimming in near future but we are adding a mountain strike corps (60,000) troops for north east.

It will be reality before the "panel" gives its recommendations.


In 2012 Indians used to brag at least 80 Rafales by 2020

Some fanboy still drram of 200 Rafale for navy and Airforce

 

[A chauhan]

India is about to face lots of internal conflicts and tensions so quantity does matter, meanwhile upgrade the quality. Use the youth power India has, however this moves seems to be a side effect of OROP.

 

[sasum]

India is about to face lots of internal conflicts and tensions so quantity does matter, meanwhile upgrade the quality. Use the youth power India has, however this moves seems to be a side effect of OROP.

By internal conflicts, do you mean unrest created by likes of Kejriwal, Kanhaiya etc. or communal riots ?
Even then is it prudent to deploy army to quell internal conflicts ? Over dependence on army will make us a tinpot republic like Pakistan.

 

[sasum]

Lamo same old - Will,could,should doesn't mean anything, Indians should first achieve something in military tech before bragging.As of now most of our hardware are imports.

As for the consideration, yeah they consider a lot of thing at best MOD will make a panel whose recommendation will come after 5 years.This is how things get done in MOD.

There is no trimming in near future but we are adding a mountain strike corps (60,000) troops for north east.

It will be reality before the "panel" gives its recommendations.


In 2012 Indians used to brag at least 80 Rafales by 2020

Some fanboy still drram of 200 Rafale for navy and Airforce

I agree. Only hitch, India's ability to sustain large number of army personnel with pay, allowances, pension, lodging, Medicare etc.
And gone are the days, when idealistic teenagers would volunteer to defend motherland for free.

 

[Zebra]

There few ways to prove that you are not a warmonger.

You keep your armed forces poorly equipped is one of them.

But there is an issue in it.

When you start equip them , you got only one option left after it.

And that is ................... you have announce that now you are reducing their manpower. :biggrin2:

 

[garg_bharat]

I agree. Only hitch, India's ability to sustain large number of army personnel with pay, allowances, pension, lodging, Medicare etc.
And gone are the days, when idealistic teenagers would volunteer to defend motherland for free.

It depends. People fight to defend their homes and their families, if not the country.

Go to Jammu and North Punjab, and you will see very strong support for the Army.

Maybe Bengali do not feel such affinity as they are not at risk.

India can be many things to many people.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Dude, there are plenty of people who aren't tedchnically/academically/etc qualified enough to get into said pvt. companies.

Plenty of haddi pehlwaans like me as well who can't qualify for army.
Hope you understand what I'm saying instead of scratching the message inside message.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Where is this 1.5M stat coming from?

I read it's 1.3M and 1.1M reserve of Armed forces and it doesn't includes Para.

We can't trim it further based on the 2 big enemies ie. China and Pak whose combined is almost twice.

• Government has said only that they will not increase numbers. We are just speculating that it may be trimmed as well.
  if trimmed, that even to a very small extent.
• China and Pakistan may have twice army's combined. But for sake of common sense, will it likely that China would intervene directly. They have to keep India neutral in SCS. Also, Neither India will send 1.3 million at once to fight, nor China and pak will send their 1.8 millions and 0.7 millions to fight at once. Troops come in battalion always. There are two scenario's,

1. Most likely Scenario
2. Worst case Scenario

We kept being afraid of two front war and put ourselves downperforming in modern techniques.
Others too are doing same. So, what's problem?
A quality force on the cost of small decrease(because we aren't terminating half of army.)

• Government also may not be half braincell to trim the manpower without equipping with some better firepower.

Lamo same old - Will,could,should doesn't mean anything, Indians should first achieve something in military tech before bragging. As of now most of our hardware are imports.

As for the consideration, yeah they consider a lot of thing at best MOD will make a panel whose recommendation will come after 5 years. This is how things get done in MOD.

There is no trimming in near future but we are adding a mountain strike corps (60,000) troops for north east.

It will be reality before the "panel" gives its recommendations.


In 2012 Indians used to brag at least 80 Rafales by 2020

Some fanboy still drram of 200 Rafale for navy and Airforce

Was the troll needed?
If you'll read my post, I said it will only be decreased if soldiers would be armed with better firepower.
For defense purchases to indigenization, if there are failures, there are successes as well.
Don't act like commies, genius, CrYsIs.
Try to praise when something valuable is being tried to be done.
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...rts-likely-to-surge-40-this-year.74433/page-2