Defence Ministry panel to trim forces

[Indx TechStyle]

Defence Ministry panel to trim forces

• The MoD-appointed panel will look into doing away with redundant posts and ensuring modernisation without increasing forces’ numbers. The three forces have a combined strength of about 15.50 lakh
• There is no move to change the regimental system of the Army or the way the IAF or the Navy function and operate. Sources said one of the panel's key targets would be to reduce expenses
• A large chunk of the budget for this fiscal has been kept for salaries under the ‘capital’ head.

Ajay Banerjee

Tribune News Service

New Delhi, May 1

The Ministry of Defence wants major structural changes in the Army, IAF and the Navy, like cutting down on “flab”, doing away with posts that may have become redundant and ensure modernisation or addition of new equipment does not mean a corresponding rise in numbers for the forces.

The MoD has decided to appoint a committee to suggest reforms in a time-bound manner. The committee could be headed by a retired three-star rank officer who would be understanding all operational needs and knowing how warfare has evolved or is set to evolve in the future. The last such committee, headed by former Defence Secretary Ajai Vikram Singh, on reforms was set up a decade ago.

Sources said the three forces had been asked to project what all could be done away with in the age where the traditional war fighting is changing rapidly.

A large chunk of the budget for this fiscal has been kept for salaries under the “capital” head. A sum of Rs 90,208 crore, including a sum of Rs 78, 586 for new equipment, weapons, aircraft, naval warships, Army vehicles has been allocated, while salaries for the three services – Army , Navy and the IAF , along their civilian staff — has been budgeted at Rs 95,849 crore – that is Rs 5,641 crore more than the capital expense.

There is no move to change the regimental system of the Army or the way the IAF or the Navy function and operate. The three forces have a combined strength of about 15.50 lakh. Even though the committee has not been given any targets for reducing numbers, sources said, one of its key targets would be to reduce expenses. This may include multiple use of lands where any of the services has a station in close proximity to each other.

@LETHALFORCE @Anupu @raj696 @Kshatriya87 @sayareakd @Gessler

 

[Indx TechStyle]

@Kunal Biswas @Navnit Kundu @SilverSabre @cobra commando
News isn't clear though I would love to know if armed forces gonna really be trimmed, this article isn't clear. Yet, if they are trimmed to one million with better firepower, that would be nice, China also has reduced it's manpower for military.
@Kunal Biswas gonna there happen any such thing?

 

[Kshatriya87]

I agree if I understand the article correctly. Not much information there.

I would anyday fear 1 well trained man on the streets than 3 rowdis brawling around. Similarly, 1.5 million well trained and well equipped soldiers are far more lethal than poorly equipped 2 million.

 

[ezsasa]

Parrikar had stated this flab thing long back, he also clarified that he was talking about the sahayaks in the army.

 

[garg_bharat]

I doubt army can be trimmed. Soldier to population ratio is too low in India. The need is to fill vacant officer positions.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

@HariPrasad-1 @aditya g @harsh @thethinker

 

[Navnit Kundu]

I agree if I understand the article correctly. Not much information there.

I would anyday fear 1 well trained man on the streets than 3 rowdis brawling around. Similarly, 1.5 million well trained and well equipped soldiers are far more lethal than poorly equipped 2 million.

Yup.

Even Russia trimmed their forces by 30% before venturing into the Ukraine (and later Syria) war. Even China trimmed 20% of their forces a few months ago. We are on the right path. We need a small potent force with more firepower. Outcomes of today's wars are dependent on the nation's scientists and industrial capacity.

 

[Bahamut]

It is the right decision .Smaller , more mobile force which are well train and equiped are the way forward

 

[cannonfodder]

Generals favoring phoran maal should be given first exit priority as part of restructuring...

 

[harsh]

It is a welcoming decision but first we should stop following british era rules and recruitment process.

Some of Our Generals behave like kings.
everyone should be recruited from lowest position and then promotion is given at right time intervals and to the deserving one.
there is no need for different mess. Different rules and different recruitment process for sanik and officers

 

[Bahamut]

there is no need for different mess. Different rules and different recruitment process for sanik and officers

The requirement are different as a result the rules and requirement are different

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

India has a lot of internal faultlines, which means it might need soldiers to man the streets while they go to fight on the border. The recent Jat agitations etc are just a trailer of the big game.

So, untrained soldiers might be needed for internal security. 15 lakh soldiers for a country of 120 crore is not good enough once you count the internal threat level. No doubt they need more training, but quantity has a quality of its own!!

OROP is just pushing defence forces now in the direction of cutting down flab.

 

[Bahamut]

India has a lot of internal faultlines, which means it might need soldiers to man the streets while they go to fight on the border. The recent Jat agitations etc are just a trailer of the big game.

There is habit in India of let Army take care of every thing.We can have a National Guard or more things like Assam rifle which allow other ministry to have excess to MoD resource for a short time but the Police Reserve and Disaster Management must go up both in number and quality ,it is not a job of Army to do stuff like this every time the govt. want to save itself from the failure of other organisation.

 

[harsh]

The requirement are different as a result the rules and requirement are different

Mess is just to eat food. No one require different kind of food all are human there so no need for different mess.
Every nation has same mess these days.
And recruitment process is faulty. You should start right from the bottom and gain experience for promotion. But here in india non commissioned officiers have to go through test and training again to become commissioned. And commissioned officers just go through time bound promotions. This is wrong. criteria for promotion is you deserve or not . It is not what are you nco or officer.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

There is habit in India of let Army take care of every thing.We can have a National Guard or more things like Assam rifle which allow other ministry to have excess to MoD resource for a short time but the Police Reserve and Disaster Management must go up both in number and quality ,it is not a job of Army to do stuff like this every time the govt. want to save itself from the failure of other organisation.

Police cannot always save you and nation needs army intervention in many cases. Eg--Kashmir, NE and AFSPA.

But increasing numbers of police and other security forces is also equally important.

 

[Bahamut]

Mess is just to eat food. No one require different kind of food all are human there so no need for different mess.
Every nation has same mess these days.
And recruitment process is faulty. You should start right from the bottom and gain experience for promotion. But here in india non commissioned officiers have to go through test and training again to become commissioned. And commissioned officers just go through time bound promotions. This is wrong. criteria for promotion is you deserve or not . It is not what are you nco or officer.

Officer are promoted on the performance not on time bound promotion.I can guarantee it , I know a lot people in the Army and the promotion is done by a board which see you performance .If some one feel that a promotion is denied there is proper procedure for it to.As for the requirement the need of general and that of a solider are different,it is a basic fact.

 

[Bahamut]

Police cannot always save you and nation needs army intervention in many cases. Eg--Kashmir, NE and AFSPA.

But increasing numbers of police and other security forces is also equally important.

Not for such area ,but for things like during YOGA day it was the army which prepared the venue and they were not happy about it.Similarly during flood Kashmir and Uttarakhand the Army and IAF did more then the local administration.Or Army being brought to use make shift bridges during CWG.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Police cannot always save you and nation needs army intervention in many cases. Eg--Kashmir, NE and AFSPA.

But increasing numbers of police and other security forces is also equally important.

You'll happy to know that only few border security forces may be trimmed
(And I hope you may be aware about recently deployed technologies which reduce need of troops
Hope you watched, laser weapon thread, laser fencing and pakistani response over it. :biggrin2: ).
Though mountain strike corps in North East may be increased.
In article,
Government is attempting to increase the power of forces but said, "Only numbers do not mean power".
Here, government says it doesn't want more manpower, so we get two speculations:

• Government is planning for a big upgradation program where they'll boost only army's capabilities but won't increase numbers.
• A massive boost to capabilities but decline in numbers. Smaller but "@LETHALFORCE" (kidding him ) just like China did recently. We know, 1.3 million soldiers never together fight a war in a single attempt. What's need of keeping so many people then?

And same goes for forces for internal security forces.
If manpower is reduced, most probably that in internal forces will remain unaffected and mainly decrease in border forces for fighting beyond the borders.
But again, if they decrease numbers of counter terrorism forces as well, we must not panic till they have plans to make smaller and "@LETHALFORCES". :biggrin2:
In brief:
You have 1.3 million soldiers but they never gonna fight at same time.
You have less than 1 million soldiers but well equipped, they will also never fight together but will fight better.
You send a group of 1000 soldiers to challenge the red dragon, out of

• poorly equipped out of 1.3 million
• or well equipped out of 1 million, your choice.

Yet you will have lesser soldiers in reserve but I really don't think our "all soldiers" will fight at same time except WW3.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

You'll happy to know that only few border security forces may be trimmed
(And I hope you may be aware about recently deployed technologies which reduce need of troops
Hope you watched, laser weapon thread, laser fencing and pakistani response over it. :biggrin2: ).
Though mountain strike corps in North East may be increased.
In article,
Government is attempting to increase the power of forces but said, "Only numbers do not mean power".
Here, government says it doesn't want more manpower, so we get two speculations:

• Government is planning for a big upgradation program where they'll boost only army's capabilities but won't increase numbers.
• A massive boost to capabilities but decline in numbers. Smaller but "@LETHALFORCE" (kidding him ) just like China did recently. We know, 1.3 million soldiers never together fight a war in a single attempt. What's need of keeping so many people then?

And same goes for forces for internal security forces.
If manpower is reduced, most probably that in internal forces will remain unaffected and mainly decrease in border forces for fighting beyond the borders.
But again, if they decrease numbers of counter terrorism forces as well, we must not panic till they have plans to make smaller and "@LETHALFORCES". :biggrin2:
In brief:
You have 1.3 million soldiers but they never gonna fight at same time.
You have less than 1 million soldiers but well equipped, they will also never fight together but will fight better.
You send a group of 1000 soldiers to challenge the red dragon, out of

• poorly equipped out of 1.3 million
• or well equipped out of 1 million, your choice.

Yet you will have lesser soldiers in reserve but I really don't think our "all soldiers" will fight at same time except WW3.

You don't understand the point of having an army of 1.5 million.

Since they are there, there won't be no war. So it does not mean we dismantle the army. It is because those 1.5 million are working, that we can avoid war. But if you make it say 0.1 million, the situation will change and there can be war because enemy thinks that we don't have enough force. Case in point -1962, when China knew we are not prepared.

A bigger army is deterrent. It is exactly like putting X-ray machines on every entry of Delhi Metro. There would be hardly 1 or 2 attacks in 10 years but that does not mean we allow them to happen and stop putting X-rays everywhere. Deterrent is important and that is where the quantity comes into play.

Ofcourse, not saying quality is not important. Also, cannot argue on precise numbers which will be good for India i.e. whether we need 1.5 or 1.2 million!!

 

[Bornubus]

Numbers was and always will be the most deciding factor in the battlefield.

So more mental mas$# bation by Govt.

During last phase WW 2 Germany was forced to to put kids on front line since there were very few able body adult.

Although Germany had most superior military hardware in WW 2 and which US,Brits and Soviets could dream of.

Their Tanks outgunned Allies,they made V2 rocket,early jet engine etc


But they had no men left to use that stuff but Kids.


Pow German kids not more than 14

Plus India is a 3rd world country with pathetic arms industry let alone cutting edge technologies in military.Numbers are all we have.