Defence ministry goes global in search for Kaveri partner

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by SpArK, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. SpArK

    SpArK SORCERER Senior Member

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    Defence ministry goes global in search for Kaveri partner




    [​IMG]
    Working on a Kaveri prototype at GTRE, Bangalore


    By Ajai Shukla
    Gas Turbine Research Establishment, Bangalore
    Business Standard, 4th Jan 12

    The defence ministry (MoD) will no longer ask French aircraft engine builder Snecma to help in resurrecting the indigenous Kaveri jet engine, which has reached a dead end in development.



    Instead major global aero engine manufacturers will compete in a global tender to partner the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) --- the Bangalore-based DRDO engine laboratory --- in refining the Kaveri engine to the level where it can power the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), an indigenous, fifth-generation fighter that is on the MoD’s long-term horizon.

    “We are abandoning the plan for co-development with Snecma. We still need an overseas partner. But it will not be Snecma on a single-vendor basis. We will select our partner through competitive bidding,” says Dr CP Ramnarayanan, Director, GTRE.

    Business Standard, on a visit to GTRE in Bangalore, was briefed that the Kaveri still delivered significantly less power than what a modern fighter requires. In flight-testing last year at the Gromov Flight Research Institute (GFRI) in Russia, the Kaveri’s maximum thrust (termed “wet thrust") was measured at 70.4 KiloNewtons (KN). High-performance fighters like the Tejas or the AMCA need engines that generate at least 90 KN of thrust.

    “To develop a more powerful Kaveri engine quickly and to become self-reliant in engine design, we need a foreign partner who can bring in core technologies. Otherwise the next cycle of engine development could take another 15-20 years,” admits Ramnarayan frankly.

    Developing a jet engine for a high-performance fighter is technologically more demanding than any other aircraft system. Only a handful of countries have been able to develop aircraft engines; China, like India, has not yet achieved success. The DRDO is struggling in developing the Nickel and Cobalt superalloys for the Kaveri’s turbine, where temperatures of 1,600 degrees Centigrade warp normal metals.

    Shaping the alloys into engine parts is an equal challenge. GTRE has learned how to make “directionally solidified” turbine blades; but it has not mastered the making of “single-crystal blades”, which are now standard.

    The process for selecting a partner that has these technologies is under way. A DRDO committee is identifying specifications for the engine. Based on these, a Request for Proposals (RfP) will be issued to engine makers.

    Meanwhile, as already reported by Business Standard (“Kaveri engine to fly futuristic unmanned aircraft”, Dec 26, 2012) GTRE is developing a spin-off Kaveri engine that will propel India’s first unmanned bomber, termed the Unmanned Strike Air Vehicle (USAV). The Kaveri’s current “dry thrust” of 50 KN will suffice for the USAV.

    The refined Kaveri engine that will come out of the foreign collaboration will be used for the futuristic AMCA, but not for the Tejas fighters of the Indian Air Force (IAF), which American engines will power. The first 40 Tejas Mark I are being built with the General Electric F-404IN engine, while the subsequent Tejas Mark II would have the more powerful GE F-414 engine.


    “We were planning to re-engine first 40 Tejas fighters with the Kaveri. But now they will continue to fly with the F-404 engine,” says the GTRE director.

    The DRDO has moved a paper to the MoD that strongly backs the Kaveri programme as the foundation of aero engine development in the country. The DRDO calculates that India’s aerospace requirements over the coming decade will include jet engines worth Rs 1,60,000 crore.

    Major aero-engine development facilities are being set up in Chitradurga, where a 5,600-acre hub of strategic industry will house R&D, testing and production units of the DRDO, Department of Space (DoS) and Department of Atomic Energy (DAE). These will include an official altitude test facility for aero engines, which US defence major Boeing is providing as an offset in India’s Rs 22,800 crore ($4.12 billion) purchase of ten C-17 Globemaster III transport aircraft. So far, GTRE has had to do all its testing in Russia.

    Broadsword: Defence ministry goes global in search for Kaveri partner

    http://defenceforumindia.com/mod-is...e-manufacturers-to-partner-kaveri-engine-1447
     
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  3. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    more delay for the engine now..............
     
  4. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    Delay thy name is ----.......
     
  5. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

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    Rafale gone?
     
  6. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    why will any Western country Collaborate and give us technology when they know it will result in India malty engines which will mean no orders for engine for their Own companies & one day compete with them
     
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  7. LTE-TDD

    LTE-TDD Regular Member

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    ----------------------------------- Infraction handed ----------------------------------------
     
  8. opesys

    opesys Regular Member

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    Leaving aside the politics and corruption, on the technical front it is the inexperience that is one of the major hurdles now as far as Kaveri project is concerned. West (and Russia) has been researching on this from a long time and they were also well motivated to do so also.... anyway what about China, has it been able to make an aircraft engine for a 4+ generation fighter jet ?

    Anyway do you know anything about the Kaveri project at all ? What are the challenges it is facing right now ? I guess not...
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2013
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  9. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    We didnt send rocket to moon just like that.
     
    uss, ersakthivel, jalsa and 1 other person like this.
  10. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Ah! This was waiting to happen. The French are terrible when it comes to setting a price for any co-development project. Maitri SAM also dissolved the same way.

    A global tender opens up new options for all.

    GE, Eurojet and Saturn could be high on the list of co-development partners, apart from Safran group. Then there's Salyut, P&W, Rolls Royce and Honeywell too.
     
  11. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    looks like Snecma has not put something good on table, that is why govt is looking for other partners.
    It would be better if we take it as national project get all the IITs to involved in this and get it finished.
     
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  12. uss

    uss Regular Member

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    Guru's please advice, why we have not look for help from Russia in 1st place ? . They are working with india on different JVs (FGFA) or providing assistance (ATV). Still why we have not gone for their help at first.
     
  13. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    One wonders what work was done for so many years. Time & money spent on what? what did snecma bring into the project? 70 KN thrust even after so many years can mean that Snecma didn't do Any Work. Maybe their mandate was to stall & jeopardize the program.
     
  14. Sam2012

    Sam2012 Tihar Jail Banned

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    floating a global tender we are not theifs like u
     
  15. Sam2012

    Sam2012 Tihar Jail Banned

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    I think calling bidders is a good move , but has been late in coming DRDO has to finish the process quick & produce a engine which has 100KN+ thrust

    We should eiether give it to NPO Saturn Or Eurojet . We should stay away from US because of sanctions

    But GTRE do things fast we don't have much of time :)
     
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  16. Sam2012

    Sam2012 Tihar Jail Banned

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    Sir ur copy industry ability is top class , :taunt:
     
  17. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Too many things in Russia's kitty. Not good for the military set up here.

    France had nothing to do with Kaveri K-9 project.

    There were discussions being held about a new engine program called Kaveri K-10. That's stalled if we go by OP news. The decision did not jeopardize anything but delays are inevitable in such programs.

    We need an engine the next decade, not this decade. We can fall back on the F-414.
     
  18. Sam2012

    Sam2012 Tihar Jail Banned

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    Can't we involve our private industry to bring in technology? , they will inturn bring in the tech just like Tata did with Denel 155mm gun & GTRE can take ownership of overall project , any thoughts on this ? because new engine with higher thrust & lesser time is what we require no more politics & excuses pls GTRE:mad::rolleyes::shocked:
     
  19. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Who ever will involve will provide technical knowledge of constructing from scratch, Let it be us or Euros the thing will be made in India with Indian raw material..

    In my view this will go for US again..
     
  20. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

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    Japan. They need an engine for their 5th gen plane and we need the same for amca. Bilateral ties have never been better. Time to upgrade to strategic ties.
     
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  21. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    a possibility that cant be ignored

    it seems they have a particular knack for putting the cart before the horse ..... first special contract , it fails then go for general tender
    please send these geniuses for management programs - diploma level - not masters, they might fail the exams !

    excellent and superb points ! ..... if i may add; might try considering south korea as well .....but your idea for japan is probably it ! ...plus upgrade ties with Japan as you suggested ...! YES !!
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013

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