Defence Forum of Pakistan

Discussion in 'Members Corner' started by tarunraju, Sep 18, 2015.

  1. tarunraju

    tarunraju Moderator Moderator

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    Good job guys, the Pakistan forum now has 3x the threads of Indian Army forum. Either this site is on auto-pilot, or someone is allowing it to become a wahabi infowar shithole.

    I won't post until this situation changes.
     
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  3. tarunraju

    tarunraju Moderator Moderator

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  4. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    If they come here and post their arguments, we can give them fitting reply dude ... no worries.
     
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  5. thethinker

    thethinker Senior Member Senior Member

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    The way this threads are posted in Pakistan forum here cover specific themes :

    • Critical of India related to various internal issues
    • Self congratulatory news about Pakistan (like a few universities listed in world's 800 or so)
    • Kashmir related with pro Pak leanings of course
    • Once again anti-India news
    And so on.

    Looks like General Sharif's recent "Kashmir is unfinished agenda after partition" comment has made the ISI trolls go overtime posting drivel here on DFI.

    Mods please take note of this. The threads are opened and left as it is.
     
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  6. rock127

    rock127 Maulana Rockullah Senior Member

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    I guess it's a secret tactic to increase traffic. :hmm:
     
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  7. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Senior Member

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    @tarunraju

    If the point being made is that there are less threads on this forum than the other, i agree.

    but i am also of the opinion that posts have decreased because we have lesser things to complain about, even at the time when i joined this forum most of the posts were wishlists and advise to Modi, Army and defence minister on defence purchases and strategies. But now a days i find we have lesser things to complain about, matters like economy, defence purchases and strategic affairs seems to be on the right track. Govt and MoD seems to be doing better than expected at this point in time. Atleast i am finding very few things to complain about.

    Only thing that has not changed then and now is efficiency of DRDO.

    I would also concede that there are less discussion on defence technologies, the reason i joined DFI in the first place. posts by @Kunal Biswas @Ray @ersakthivel @Yusuf were technically enriching and i do miss those posts.

    Then again i prefer quality of discussion rather than quantity of posts and illogical half cooked arguments....
     
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  8. rock127

    rock127 Maulana Rockullah Senior Member

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    Pakis keep coming again and again and again and again and ... with their useless/fake threads.

    Pakis are not tired of getting slapped again and again again....such a shameless jihadi kaum. :dude:

    We have to counter it with the same FACT based stuff but they don't even believe their own Paki sources. :lol:
     
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  9. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    I am an elite member there, banned one ... :p any how .. their argument revolves around some really absurd and baseless arguments.

    It is basically when you want to troll. Go there do some gali galoj and enjoy. That's all!!
     
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  10. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    I am engaged in a new business venture . So i wont be posting much till Diwali, After Diwali i will post.
    You are right on one count, there is less of a heart burn among indian defence enthusiasts these days.
    The new govt seems to be cracking the whip on all fronts,whether it is ,
    1. 60 percent increase in DRDO budget,
    2, PM asking the heads of DRDO units to submit a monthly report on progress of crucial projects,
    3. Separation of DRDO chief post from Scientific Advisor to Defence Minister(so that defence minister gets unbiased technically sound advice, especially the talentd Sadeesh Reddy as SA is a very good choice.)
    4,GTRE floating a tender for parts from private vendors for building 20 kavri K-9 engines,
    5.New Environmental minister Prakash javedkar giving lighting environmental clearance for 32 INDO-China Himalayan border roads,
    6,Robust response to cross border firing by Pakistani force,
    7.Curt and firm handling of Hurriyat crowd and Pakistani Diplomatic establishment on the Indo-Pak talks focusing exclusively on terror,
    8.Recent efforts aimed at Dawood properties in Dubai and strategic relationship initiative with UAE,
    9, N fuel sourcing agreements with Australia,Canada and many other countries,
    10.Inviting japan and australia for malabar naval exercise,
    11,Mulling about bringing in second production line for tejas mk2, after extracting a firm pledge from IAF chief on the usefulness of tejas,
    12.Faster clearance of project 75 subs,
    13, make in india policy leading to indian pvt sector tieing up wih foreign cos to set up defence equipment production lines india, like RIl investment in pipavav and helo unit in nagpur .

    So all these steps were taken with lightning speed and expect more from manohar Parrikar who is now free to look at long term issues about indian defence , afer solving the complex OROP puzzle.

    Only front where action is missing is MBT Arjun. The DGMF is taking the new defence minister for a nice ride with their FRCV.
    So lets see what comes up in the recent future
     
  11. Ancient Indian

    Ancient Indian Unplugged Version Senior Member

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    You people bear this nonsense for silly reasons.

    Stop being gentleman at our expense. Learn some thing called ownership.

    These Paki posters bring nothing informative to the discussions.

    @pmaitra saaaaaaaaaaaaaaar?
     
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  12. saty

    saty Tihar Jail Banned

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    Except 3/4 persons rest are Self loathing Hindus.Seriously, no self respecting person can stay there in few days.Americans/Jews also in different different forums but they stick to their country matters (or few threads) and disappear after that.But only shameless Indians hang-on that forum.

    BTW from that forum you can simply guess MALLUS are the most SHAMELESS/majority people in INDIA(HINDUS) then Bengalis. :frusty:
     
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  13. alphacentury

    alphacentury Regular Member

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    Totally agree with @ezsasa , less things to complain about these days. Also the demise of Ray sir has been a loss to this forum. He would often bring up interesting topics/threads and also keep them very engaging. There are also a lot of senior members MIA , of course excluding @Singh , he wont come out till 2019.:devil:
     
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  14. A chauhan

    A chauhan "अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l" Senior Member

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    I think DFI members are living, earning and progressive type people and not jobless like Pakistanis so the reduction in number of posts. However as @ersakthivel and @ezsasa pointed out, we come here to complaint less and valuate ourselves more unlike the Paki forum, however some Indians like to give befitting reply on the enemy soil (PDF) we only can try to bring them back nothing more.

    And for our forum I have noticed the more the MoD works the more we come here.
     
  15. Illusive

    Illusive Senior Member Senior Member

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    I think you are talking of PDF and OP is talking of the Pakistani section in DFI.
     
  16. saty

    saty Tihar Jail Banned

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    Thanks
    By Mistake revealed the truth .Hope you are not Mallu/bong :biggrin2:
     
  17. Illusive

    Illusive Senior Member Senior Member

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    No :biggrin2:, but you know how we Indians are, ghar main ghuske marenge :biggrin2:
     
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  18. TroubleMaker

    TroubleMaker New Member

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    Can we have some nice background on this forum and a few mods.
     
  19. sachin458377

    sachin458377 Regular Member

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    PAK defence is just shit , they ban for saying right things, we will make this forum a live one
     
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  20. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    While I agree with the premise that quality is more important, what @tarunraju is talking about is the free reign pakis have for doing propaganda here.

    I think i agree with him that, they should be dealt with strictly.
     
  21. thethinker

    thethinker Senior Member Senior Member

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    An example of how any dissent against Pak army/ISI is treated. Interesting to read.

    ===============================================
    The ISI media’s two pronged strategy: From Ahmed Quraishi to Azhar Abbas

    https://lubpak.com/archives/33797

    The front end: the ISI strikes back

    Recently, the LUBP wrote an article titled “Pakistan Army owns up the ISI man on a suicide attack mission in India”. ‘Renowned’ nationalist, patriot, and ‘asset’, Ahmed Quraishi, took exception to our views and thus scolded the LUBP in the following words:

    Ahmed Quraishi’s attack on the LUBP:

    ‘Et tu, PPPP?’

    The stunning part is how a Pakistani website that is part of ruling PPPP’s network of online propaganda promptly in endorsed the Indian intelligence reports and supported the reports published by the Indian media. The site runs propaganda material for President Asif Zardari and other PPPP stalwarts. Senior journalist Hamid Mir accused this site of being run from Washington by Mr. Zardari’s close aide and envoy in Washington Husain Haqqani.

    The PPPP site, called LUBP, in a post titled, Pakistan army owns up the ISI man on a suicide attack mission in India, said:

    “Online factories of suicide bombers: An ISI production: LUBP has been boldly stating for the last many years that Pakistan Army’s continued policy of jihadi and sectarian suicide attacks […] Now it has been once again proven without doubt that jihadi and sectarian suicide attacks are an integral element of the Pakistan Army’s military strategy”

    The link shows this PPPP site relying heavily on India propaganda. It did not verify if the Indian news is correct and posted two links, both of Indian TV channels, to prove the Indian allegations.

    The Indian army chief is nincompoop who is willing to buy a junior intelligence analyst’s ridiculous story based on a minor data entry error. But what is PPPP’s excuse for endorsing Indian propaganda? And does President Zardari’s media adviser Mrs. Farahnaz Isphahani know what the party’s media cell’s kids are doing online?

    Source: Ahmed Quraishi

    LUBP’s position:

    “Unlike Ahmed Quraishi, whose own network of lies is run directly from GHQ, LUBP does not take dictation from Farahnaz Isapahani or Hussain Haqqani. We publish whatever we think is the truth. Not something that anyone should expect Ahmed Quraishi to understand though.” (Source)

    The back-end: more refined line of ISI’s defence

    The more refined line of the ISI’s defence in Pakistani media can be seen in the shape of a recent, unusual article by Geo TV’s MD Azhar Abbas. The article titled “A tactical move or the main strategy?” was published on 16 Dec 2010 in The News.

    At the onset, one must recall what the Jang Group (including its three prominent components, i.e., Geo TV, Jang and The News) has stood for in the last three years:

    1. A consistent, maligning campaign against an elected government thus confirming the Jang Group’s complicit role (Teen Jeem) with the military establishment;
    2. An incessant character assassination of President Asif Ali Zardari;
    3. Wide and unwarranted coverage to the ideology and sermons of jihadi and sectarian terrorists including but not limited to the Jamaat-e-Islami chief Munawar Hasan, extremist Deobandi mullahs Mufti Naeem and Mufti Hanif Jallandhri, Sipah-e-Sahaba’s chief Maulana Ahmad Ludhianvi, cultivators of Al Qaeda including Dr Zakir Naik and Farhat Hashmi etc.
    4. Promotion of notorious, blackmailing journalists including Dr Shahid Masood, Hamid Mir, Ansar Abbasi and Shaheen Sehabi with known contacts with the ISI and the MI;
    5. Failure to take adequate professional and legal action against Hamid Mir for his involvement in Khalid Khwaja’s murder.
    Now let us see what Azhar Abbas had to say in the Jang Group’s defence:

    Azhar Abbas wonders if the case of fake WikiLeak cable is “a case of an honest mistake, over-zealousness on the part of the writer, or a calculated plant by a section of our establishment? The publication of the fake WikiLeaks story has not only raised questions about the editorial controls within media organisations, but also about the “powers that be” and their apparent shortsighted objectives.”

    In order to assess if it was a one-off case of an honest mistake, we suggest Mr Abbas may more retrospectively ask himself:

    • Has not the Jang Group (including Jang, The News and Geo TV) consistently acted as a willing partner and servant of the military establishment in the last three years?
    • Has not it played an integral and vital role in continuous character assassination of an elected president of this unfortunate country?
    • Has it not played a key role in propagating and reinforcing the military establishment’s “politicians-are-corrupt” mantra, while completely ignoring numerous incidents of financial, political and moral corruption of the military establishment?
    • Did it not play a damning role in partnership with the military establishment in its criticism of the Kerry Lugar Bill?
    • Is it not a fact that the ISI regularly offers formal and informal directions to media owners and editors about which news items are to be eliminated and which ones need to be twisted and highlighted? Most recently, the Army Chief himself dictated such talking points to the media.
    • Thus, are we dealing here with the case of a one off mistake, or has the Jang Group decided to come better prepared and better camouflaged next time?
    On more than one occasions in this article, Mr Abbas has shown his selective or partial honesty. For example he writes: “Mohsin Baig, head of the Online news agency, has sacked the agency’s editor, charging him of “fabricating the story”.”

    How conveniently he ignored the fact that Mohsin Baig is already known as the most volcal advocates of the GHQ and the ISI in media circles in Pakistan. Also, was it not Mr Baig himself who in an interview with BBC Urdu asserted that the cable was genuine:

    اس بارے میں بی بی سی کے نامہ نگار حفیظ چاچڑ سے بات کرتے ہوئے خبر رساں ایجنسی آن لائن کے سربراہ محسن بیگ نےدعوٰی کیا یہ دستاویز اصل ہے۔ انہوں نے ان اخبارات پر تنقید کی جنہوں نے اس خبر پر معذرت شائع کی ہے۔

    ان کے مطابق ’اگر ہماری خبر کی وکی لیکس تردید کر دے تو ان اخبارات کی معذرت جائز ہے اور وکی لیکس کی اس خبر کے انٹرنیٹ پر بے شمار لنکس موجود ہیں‘۔

    محسن بیگ نے کہا کہ وکی لیکس کے دستاویزات شائع کرنے کا برطانوی اخبار گارڈین کے پاس کوئی اختیار نہیں ہے اور یہ دستاویزات انٹرنیٹ پر موجود ہیں اور انہیں کوئی بھی چھاپ سکتا ہے۔ انہوں نے ان خبروں کی بھی تردید کی جن میں کہا گیا ہے کہ خبر رساں ایجنسی کو یہ خبر مخصوص مقاصد پورے کرنے کے لیے دی گئی تھی۔

    Is it just a coincidence that this wave of honesty has also entrapped Hamid Mir along with Azhar Abbas. Recently, in his interview with an Indian TV channel (Times Now), Mir admitted the role of the (military) establishment in planting the fake cable story:

    Leading Pakistani newspapers acknowledged that they were hoaxed into publishing reports based on fake WikiLeaks cables that contained stories of factionalism in Indian army and accused New Delhi of sponsoring militant groups. The reports splashed prominently in several papers including The News and The Express Tribune, a partner of the International Herald Tribune, quoting alleged US diplomatic cables to confirm bias Pakistani views and conspiracy theories about India particularly about Jammu and Kashmir. The two papers today carried prominent apologies on their front pages regarding the report they had published yesterday on alleged disclosures in purported diplomaticcables from the US embassy in Delhi about Indian Army generals and the situation in Jammu and Kashmir. TIMES NOW’s Editor-in-Chief Arnab Goswami debates the issue with Maroof Raza, TIMES NOW Strategic Affairs Expert; Farrukh Dhondy, Author and Former Commissioning Editor, Channel 4 and Hamid Mir, Executive Editor, Geo TV.

    To understand the establishment’s next strategy, one must carefully listen to what their own man, the notorious Mushahid Hussain, is saying to Azhar Abbas: ““It is quite clear that some people did try to manipulate the information to save their skin. But it was done in a very crude manner and they were caught with their pants down.”

    In other words, Mushahid Hussain is suggesting that information may be manipulated to save the military establishment’s skin but this must be done in a refined manner. In principle, Mushahid Hussain agrees with Ahmed Quraishi’s suggestion that if Guardian uses WikliLeaks for propaganda, why can’t Pakistani media do the same?

    Further, Azhar Abbas writes: “Political and security observers believe a concerted effort is once again being made to encourage and promote a typical extremist mindset. Some analysts-cum-anchors have re-emerged from quasi-oblivion. Many journalists and analysts are briefed and encouraged to take an aggressively anti-West, especially anti-US, stance. Experts, who ‘preach’ extremism in disguise, are encouraged to participate in talk shows.”

    Wait a minute. Is Mr Abbas now admitting that Hamid Mirs, Shahid Masoods, Ansar Abbasis, Kamran Khans etc of the Jang Group have been towing the military establishment’s line in the last three years and even before? Does he mean to assure the people of Pakistan that Jang Group’s anchors, reporters and analysts will take no further dictations from the military establishment? Not even from Mr Abbas’s own brother, the chief spokesman of the Pakistan Army?

    Mr Abbas writes: “It is no secret that there were those in the media and clergy who openly opposed the Army’s campaign against the militants in Swat and tried their best to put the armed forces’ objectives and intention in doubt.”

    How conveniently he ignored to mention the heroic role played by the ANP and the PPP, Asfandyar Wali Khan and Asif Ali Zardari in particular, in convincing the army to start an operation clean up in Swat. Indeed, no Swat Operation would have started or been successful in the absence of sacrifices of dozens of the ANP workers and leaders who refused to remain dominated by extremist Deobandis and Wahhabis in their province.

    Along with Nadeem Paracha, I too am worried that “Is veteran journalist, author and media commentator, late Zamir Niazi’s fear and warnings about the Pakistani media becoming a chaotic hub of agency men who are amorally willing to lie and cheat to protect even the most atrocious ways of their patrons in the figurative establishment be true? Perhaps.”

    In my view, supporters of free media including journalists, anchors, reporters and bloggers need to understand the ISI media’s two pronged strategy.

    The goal is common for Ahmed Quraishi (and his likes) and Azhar Abbas (and his likes). The only difference is in the level of refinement.

    One operates at the front end, the other at the back end. One is widely known for his contacts with the military establishment because of his upfront and crude manners, other is rather subtle and refined (save the fake cable saga) in its promotion of the military establishment’s agenda.

    In my assessment, it is the subtle and refined worms in Pakistan’s “free” media who are most dangerous not only for freedom of information and its unadulterated access to the common public but also for the very foundations of this unfortunate country that these worms are eating from inside.

    =================================================================================

    And this is why such Pak propaganda nonsense if found here should be strictly dealt with whenever Pakis like @Neo quote or post articles that belong to Quraishi/ISI media disinformation network.

    E.g of one such article posted by @Neo can be found here :

    Kerry snubbed Modi over Mulla Fazalulla patronage

    http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/kerry-snubbed-modi-over-mulla-fazalulla-patronage.66239/
     
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