Defective T-72 Tanks

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by Kunal Biswas, Jun 17, 2013.

  1. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Army Worried Over Mal-Functioning T-72 Tanks
    New Delhi | Jun 13, 2013


    [​IMG]

    Source : :: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::

    ===========================

    OFB ammo were discarded not just propellents but also the rods, due to ammo burst in guns the blame we OFB produce faulty ammo..

    Now we have conform reports that Russian ammo too burst in guns, Now the blame would also go on OFB perhaps..
     
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  3. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Related News :Army saddled with 900 unreliable T-72 tanks

    Army saddled with unreliable tanks-News-Exclusives-TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos
     
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  4. Austin

    Austin Regular Member

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    Ajai Shukla mentions in one report that barrel busting is due to OFB not following OEM document specs

    Broadsword: Arjun tank outruns, outguns Russian T-90
     
  5. AVERAGE INDIAN

    AVERAGE INDIAN EXORCIST Senior Member

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    scrap them replace it with Arjuns
     
  6. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Or sell them to anyone who is willing to buy them. Divert the proceeds to either buy more tanks, or use it for a brand new tank manufacturing facility.

    We need to make sure our entire mainstay fleet is that of T-90 and Arjun.

    If we act on a contingency basis, this could be a blessing in disguise.
     
  7. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Blame for faulty Russian made ammo should not go to OFB, but OFB must be brought to book if there is fault with OFB made ammo.

    I am also not sure whether the problem is with the ammo or with the guns. I doubt it is with the guns.
     
  8. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Old Guns with latest gen ammo with more powerful propellents, these guns cannot handle the Chamber pressure causing the gun to explode while crew still inside..

    Back then it was convenient to put the blame on OFB propellent bags ( True that some of them were faulty so does Russian ) but strangely perpetrators were also destroyed, And next was large import of Russian ammo, While the major issue was never looked upon..

     
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  9. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Thanks for the info.

    So this is not really a defect, rather, old gun that is incapable of handling modern (more powerful) ammo.
     
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  10. Austin

    Austin Regular Member

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    There is no new ammo for T-72 its just new built ammo of the old type since T-72 ballistic are not designed to take new Ammo atleast not the Russian ones , the only problem is OFB did not followed the specs in building the Gun and they tempered at low temperature , as Ajai mentioned the problem only comes when they fire APFSDS rounds which fires at higher chamber pressure compared to HEAT types.

    We are pretty much not even ordering new ammo for T-90 just the old type or lets say the one we bough with original deal and ordering more of it. Unless the new Ammo in question is the Israel one lic built by DRDO.

    However the problem is still the barrel not made according to design specs not the ammo , Ofcourse OFB also screwed up on the ammo front by mix matching propellent and this is a separate issue all together.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2013
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  11. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    So, there is indeed a defect with the guns.

    We are so messed up.
     
  12. Austin

    Austin Regular Member

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    There is no defect in the gun but defect in the way OFB made the gun as they tempered it at lower temperature then the OEM has suggested in design docs.

    QC and QA is not something OFB excels in even good design produced by DRDO gets badly screwed up by PSU like OFB.
     
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  13. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    :shocked:

    If there is defect in the way the gun is manufactured, would there be a defect in the gun, or not?

    Defect in the gun is not necessarily a defect in design.
     
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  14. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    The defect is the steel not being tempered to high enough tolerance, therefor it is a defective barrel. It is a defect of manufacturing process. Of course it is not a defect of design, T-72s fire rounds the world over without exploding ammo.
     
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  15. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    funny part is 200 cases are reported and this is leaked to media only now, Russians have very deep connections i must say, had it been OFB or DRDO when first case reported media would have been all over their throat going for their blood.
     
  16. shom

    shom Regular Member

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    Defects boom out of T-72 barrels
    November 16, 2001 | Ch Sushil Rao , TNN
    hyderabad: while hundreds of t-72 main battle tanks (mbts) of the army are long overdue for overhaul, another disturbing fact is that a few hundred of them were fitted with defective barrels, which could cause accidents. the barrels were found defective because they had not been tempered as per specifications. this has been reported by the comptroller general of india (cag). while 454 barrels valued at rs 4 4 crore were rejected because tempering specifications were not followed, an investigation had been...
    Source:- Times of India
     
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  17. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    I read this days ago(Idrw.org of BR forum)...but one question: did this news clarify the tank gun ammunition is imported from Russia? the another one 'Krashnapov' meantioned was.
     
  18. shom

    shom Regular Member

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  19. shom

    shom Regular Member

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    T-72 is the most defects known is a circular turntable autoloader shells are stored in the turret underneath, when the inside of the ammunition is ignited detonated often cause turret was blown away from the body. But T-72 is designed with T-64 and T-80 was relatively safe, this is because the separated shell its horizontal storage way in the rotary table, in addition to the above elevator position outside are covered with a layer of armor plate, the vast majority of the shells were not exposed to combat indoor. At the same time these shells in the vehicle position close to the road wheel height, so in addition to the body side armor also extra wheel protection; instead of T-64/80 propellant vertical storage way around in the turret pod, not only exposed to combat indoor and its position above the wheels, very easily from the body side or from the angle of fire lit throughout the turret. Even so, T-72 has many additional ammunition stored in the inner wall of the shell rack, turret turret pod base and the fighting between the chamber and the engine shell frame, the lack of additional protective shells easily through high temperature separation of fragments in the turret or metal jet ignited, causing explosion and fire severity. In the Gulf War of T-72 was destroyed and detonated, though some call Iraq have is pretty early export degraded version "monkey" type T-72M or T-72M1, but the fact that the Russian T-72B items cannot be of battle, such as the face of APFSDS protection, T-72M, T-72B and M1A1HA values for 380MM 530MM and 680MM, respectively, with the penetration of APFSDS, 3BM-15 only 340MM, the Russian force 3BM-32 and 3BM-42 is 500MM, American M829A1 610 to 660MM. An important symbol of a thermal imaging device or the third generation of the chariot, the United States began in 1979 of M60A3, while Russia until 1993 in T-80UK first used the "agave", but also in exports to India T-90, the device by the Indian side refused, for the French "Catherine".
    Another drawback to T-72 is due to the lack of precision of fire control system, makes the shooting procedure not only lengthy, inefficient, and hit rate than T-64 and T-80 lower. Sighting instrument TPD-K1 and its improved 1A40 most T-72 equipped with both built-in laser rangefinder, but they can only perform trajectory correction of simple calculation, but only 1A40 can lead to mobile target calculation. The sight in the distance must be laser point in the target on the implementation of distance, and the location of point position and aiming at different characterizations of center, and then aim at the characterization based on trajectory correction moved to a new location in the range is completed, then the shooter must will aim at the characterization of heart in the target. When using TPD-K1, if encounter moving target shooter must decide the leading, aiming at characterization has a long row of scale is used to aim at a moving target. 1A40 in the original sight next to add another sight, its function is to lead amount calculated display. The shooter must continue to tracking the target for 2 seconds, then the sight will display a quantity needed, Archer aiming at scale most close to that figure out. After the scale is arranged between the target fulfillment lead extraction. The T-72 has a feature called Delta-D, it will be based on the movement of the body after modification of target distance measurement. This function is not reliable, especially in the export of T-72 often cause error correction, and in particular the terrain such as wet ground or hilly terrain will make error correction.
    In addition to the defects and other defects, T-72. T-72 lack of spare optical sight, 1 times the periscope can only use the striker at the top of the number. Automatic loader is driven by electric power, but a power system failure to carry out artificial loading can only be a mechanical device, each filling takes 1 minutes. The T-72 is equipped with active infrared night vision sight, the effective range of only 800 meters, and the resolution as well as the thermal imager. Automatic loading machine can not after each shot, automatically and continuously filled with a shell, must wait until the striker to press the switch to start filling procedures. T-72 defects after the collapse of the Soviet Union continued to be Russia and other countries use improvement, including the introduction of new fire control system and improved thermal imager, autoloader, design or substantially modified turret armor configuration configuration, and automatic loading machine.
    Source:- T-72 main battle tanks _ T-72 main battle tanks wiki _ hewiki.com
     
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  20. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    so this 2001 news you dig out 12 years later as relevant, dont you think tanks under go firing test every year ?

    IA dont have working tank, night blind, no artillery guns, they always cry for rifles, tank ammo, if this is all true, then someone is sleeping on the job.
     
  21. shom

    shom Regular Member

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    I just posted this to prove that this issue is not new, the problem in prevalent for years, and yes someone is sleeping and sleeping strong.
     

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