Dear Smriti Irani, stop giving my money to IITians

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by Alien, Sep 7, 2015.

  1. Alien

    Alien Regular Member

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    It's an old article however, worth reading...
    Dear Smriti Irani, stop giving my money to IITians
    If IITians are so intelligent and can earn lakhs in their placements, why do they sponge off taxpayers' money?
    Jeswanth Padooru · Mar 26, 2015 · 03:30 pm

    Dear Smt Smriti Iraniji,

    At the drop of a hat, every government, including yours, says that subsidies are bad for the economy and should be done away with.

    Many of the subsidies in your ministry are going to those who don't deserve it. IITians are the most guilty of this pilferage. To make things worse, they hardly do anything for the country. Best-selling fiction is not known to help farmers.

    1) To begin with, this is what they cost usWhile it takes over Rs 3.4 lakh to educate an IITian per year, the student pays only Rs 90,000 per year. The rest is borne by the government. That is close to Rs 2.5 lakh per student per year, which is being paid by the tax payer. If one extrapolates this to all the 39,540 students in the Indian Institute of Technologies, the cost borne by the tax payer on educating IITians extends to 988.5 crore annually.

    According to budget estimates, Rs 1703.85 crore is to be allocated to the IITs for 2015-'16.

    2) What do we get in return for the Rs 1,700 crore we spend on them?Inspite of producing 9,885 world-class engineers in computer science, electrical, electronic, chemical, mechanical, production fields every year...

    a) The Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle, though successful with the Russian Cryogenic Engine, has time and again failed with the indigenous cryogenic engine. We have succeeded only once with our indigenous cryogenic rocket.

    b) Indigenous submarines are still a distant dream because of the technological complexity in building them. Though many projects are coming up in our own shipyards, they are happening because we are merely manufacturing them in India with foreign technology.

    c) The indigenous Indian Small Arms System rifles for our army, developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation, have always been reported as problematic, and we import assault rifles from Israel.

    Why could our world-class engineers, who are educated with tax payers' money, not have built them?

    3) This is what our top IITians gave a missA Right to Information application that was filed recently has shown that less than 2% of engineers at the Indian Space Research Organisation are from IITs and the National Institutes of Technology. Our best space programme doesn't get our best engineers every year.

    The army doesn't get engineers and officers from the IITs. Between 1986 and 2006, not a single IITian has joined the Indian army.

    The DRDO has a shortage of more than 2,700 scientists, and it is stretched and overworked, but our world-class engineers don't find it challenging.

    4) If an IITian wants to run an online shop, then why do I, a taxpayer, have to pay for his chemical engineering degree?Going by 2013 figures, Flipkart, the online mega-store, recruited seven students from IIT Madras in 2013.

    One can understand the logic behind Flipkart hiring a computer science engineer. But six of the hires had studied aerospace, chemical, metallurgy, bio-technology and engineering physics. What specialist knowledge will they bring to Flipkart?

    These students do not have any interest in what they learnt in their four-year undergraduate programme, and want to erase their history by moving to a different field.

    5) Why did I pay for Chetan Bhagat's mechanical engineering degree?I have nothing against Chetan Bhagat, but I do know that Indian taxpayers paid to make him a mechanical engineer. He has done everything but engineering.

    Another RTI filed with IIM Bangalore has revealed that out of the current batch of 406 students, 97 students are from IITs. Fifty-six of these are students with less than two years work experience.

    If all these engineers wanted to be was managers, why does the tax payer need to pay for their engineering education at the IITs?

    6) Get a loan, why seek a subsidy?All students from IITs can get collateral-free loans from nationalised banks for upto Rs 20 Lakh.

    And IITians are obviously so awesome that companies are eager to pay them crores of rupees.

    Then why should a world-class engineer who makes crores of rupees and adds no value to India be given a subsidised education at the IITs? Can't they get educated with a bank loan of their own and repay it after getting their huge salaries?

    7) Remittances help forex? Nope, not really.Whenever there is a debate on brain drain from the IITs, the remittances issue pops up. Many believe that IITians who go abroad send back remittances and contribute to foreign exchange reserves. However, it is a pittance for India.

    A report in the Economic Times shows that out of the total remittances of $70 billion to India, the remittances from IITians who go to developed countries is much lower than the remittances from the Middle East to the state of Kerala.

    Most of the Malayalis in the Gulf are blue-collar workers, not IIT engineers.

    So, why should the common man subsidise an IITian's college fees?


    To begin with, this is what they cost us



    [​IMG]

    While it takes over 3.4 Lakhs to educate an IITian per year, a student pays only Rs. 90,000 per year. The rest is borne by the government. That is close to Rs. 2.5 lakh per student per year, which is being paid by the tax payer. If one extrapolates this to all the 39540 students in IITs, the cost borne by the tax payer on educating IITians extends to 988.5 crores annually.

    What do we get in return for the 1000 crore we spend on them?


    [​IMG]

    This is what our top IITians give a miss to


    [​IMG]
    jeswanth padooru

    An RTI filed recently has shown that less than 2% of engineers in Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) are from IITs and NITs. Our best space program doesn't get our best engineers every year.
    The army doesn't get engineers and officers from the IITs. In the period between 1986 and 2006, not a single IITian has joined the Indian Army.
    DRDO has a shortage of more than 2700 scientists, and they are stretched and over-worked, but our world class engineers don't find it challenging.


    If an IITian wants to run an online shop, then why do I, a taxpayer, have to pay for his chemical engineering degree?


    [​IMG]

    Why did the taxpayer pay for Chetan Bhagat's mechanical engineering degree?

    I have nothing against Chetan Bhagat, but I do know that the Indian taxpayers paid to make him a mechanical engineer. He has done everything but engineering.

    [​IMG]

    Get a loan, why seek a subsidy?

    All students from IITs can get collateral-free loans from Nationalised banks upto Rs. 20 Lakhs.


    [​IMG]
    sbi.co.in
    SBI Scholar loan

    And obviously IITians are so freaking awesome that companies get orgasmic to shell crores as salaries.
    Then why is it that, a world class engineer who makes crores as salary and adds no value to India, gets subsidized education in IITs? Can't they just get educated with a bank loan of their own and repay it after getting their huge salaries?

    Remittances help forex? Nope, not really:

    Whenever there is a debate on brain drain from IITs, the remittances issue pops up. Many believe that IITians send back remittances and contribute to forex reserves. However, it is a pittance for India.

    A report in Economic Times shows that out of the total remittances of $70 Billion to India from abroad, the remittances from IITians who go to the western countries or other developed countries is much less, compared to the remittances from the middle-east to the state of Kerala.

    Most of them are blue-collared workers in the middle east, rather than high-tech engineers from IITs.


    We pay to import things IITians refuse to build for us:

    [​IMG]

    India imports billions of dollars in weapons, and if you ask any scientist at DRDO, they share their agony about how they have to wait for years to get the electronic chips so that they can start their work on the development of war machines. And, our best talent is sent to work in countries like Taiwan and US in Semiconductor industries. The import of these electronic chips and war machines costs billions of dollars in import bills.

    The DRDO is short by 2766 scientists and our IITians find working in Flipkart.com or Citibank more lucrative than working in DRDO, and yet, we have to subsidize their education by a whopping 10 Lakh rupees.
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Alien

    Alien Regular Member

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    Continued from first post...

    So, why should the common man subsidise an IITian's college fee?


    [​IMG]
     
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  4. blueblood

    blueblood Senior Member Senior Member

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    Really, this man has his panties in a bunch over 988.5 crores annually.

    Did he also calculate the tax paid by flipkart or other companies to government of India for using at its own discretion?

    Edit: @Alien , I know I've read it earlier. I love scroll trolls.
     
  5. Alien

    Alien Regular Member

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  6. Alien

    Alien Regular Member

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    Well, the author had mentioned some valid points and govt. needs to consider them...

    I am not against giving sibsidy to IITians however, I am definitely against the brain drain.

    Govt. should pass a law, which will make compulsary for an IIT grad engineer to work for National Institutes (say DRDO, ISRO, HAL etc...) for at least two years before he/she starts looking for some awesome paying jobs outside India.

    If our nation is giving them an opportunity to become an IIT engineer, IIT engineer needs to serve the country at least for couple of years to repay the debts.

    Just my 2 cents :namaste:
     
  7. Rowdy

    Rowdy Co ja kurwa czytam! Senior Member

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    Spending on FTII students double of medical, over 3 times of IITs


    NEW DELHI: The ongoing strike in FTII has brought focus on the badly-run state of affairs in the premier institute. What comes as a shocker is that with a spending of Rs 12 lakh per student a year, a film student is subsidized more than one studying medicine, management or engineering.

    The expense on about 350 FTII students is over three times higher than on an IIT student, which is around Rs 3.4 lakh a year. Spend on an IIM student is a shade higher at roughly Rs 5 lakh a year as compared to the IITs.

    The government spend on medical education at Rs 6 lakh a year per student is only half the money spent on budding filmmakers. Sources say the government devotes an estimated Rs 30 lakh over 5 years to a student to get an MBBS degree.

    READ ALSO: Gul Panag wants Kirron Kher as FTII head

    The reason for this is the need for an attached hospital for every medical college accompanied with funds to recruit doctors, nursing and other hospital staff that add up to high recurring costs. Besides hospital maintenance, there is significant requirement for chemicals, infrastructure and equipment for medical students to undertake practical sessions.

    The subsidy burden for medical education is likely to go up further as the government plans to expand the number of seats in existing medical colleges such as AIIMS over the next three years.

    READ ALSO: Govt defends picking of Gajendra Chauhan as FTII chief

    In its defence, FTII can claim to have given the Indian film industry well-known cinematic figures like Shyam Benegal, Raju Hirani and Jahnu Barua among many others. It also adds to the country's soft power to supplement diplomacy. [ed: :lol: while dawood makes money from bollywood and actors hide AK 47]

    However, there is a case to be made for effective management of the institute. A cost review by the I&B ministry chief advisor found that the extent of recovery through fees, hostel rent and other expenses as a percentage of expenditure in academic activities in FTII has decreased from 25% in 2006-2007 to as low as 11% in 2010-2011. Add to that is the fact that 32 strikes in 50-odd years crippled the organization.

    READ ALSO: Anupam Kher wants Gajendra Chauhan out of FTII

    Some of the illustrious alumni have expressed concern over the state of affairs and emphasised that it couldn't be at the cost of the institute itself.



    A multibillion dollar industry can't even keep and institute together. Cricket and Bollywood are cash cows ... why should the govt subsidize them? At least IIT runs projects from DRDO etc in its labs.
     
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  8. blueblood

    blueblood Senior Member Senior Member

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    Patriotism is well and good but should not be clubbed with individual's freedom. In an ideal world, things you mentioned should have been the way forward but this is not an ideal world.

    Government is equally at fault here. You start paying competetive salaries to scientists and engineers in DRDO and ISRO and then you complain, but not before that.

    No IISc? Then no Isro or LCA too

    It's one of India's oldest scientific institutions whose galaxy of alumni have played a huge role in nation-building. There wouldn't have been Isro or the light combat aircraft (LCA) project but for IISc and its alumni, many of the experts articulated at the IISc conference on Friday.

    Talking about IISc's stellar role, Isro chairman A S Kiran Kumar said: "Isro exists because of people from IISc like Vikram Sarabhai, the man behind India's space programme, and Satish Dhawan, the true architect of Isro who had the vision for such a programme."

    He also mentioned other lodestars like Brahm Prakash, the first director of the Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC) and the men behind Mars Mission.

    DRDO director-general V Bhujanga Rao said that several of its projects have been results of painstaking work at IISc. "DRDO constantly seeks solutions from the academia. And I must say that level of satisfaction from IISc is 8-9 (on 10) while that from IITs and NITs is 5-6," he said, lauding alumni and DRDO scientists like V K Aatre, P Rama Rao, Prahalada, D Banerjee and V G Sekaran.

    The auditorium lit up when the father of LCA, Kota Harinarayan, took the stage. "That plane would not have flown without IISc.

    Whether it was the lightning tests (to check if aircraft could withstand), or composites that were used, or the wind tunnel tests this campus has done more work than any other on the LCA project."

    He said this collaboration with IISc also created new technology and fuelled newer projects. This led the chair of the conference, Prof B N Raghunandan, to pipe in: "And if so much was being done for DRDO and the LCA programme, I wonder when our faculty actually worked for this institute?"

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...n-no-Isro-or-LCA-too/articleshow/47838515.cms
    .............................................................................................
    Avinash Chander (DRDO)

    He is the chief architect of the Agni series of ballistic missile systems.
    Chander joined DRDO after completing his training in Electrical Engineering from Indian Institute of Technology Delhi (IIT Delhi).
    ......................................................................

    I don't think DRDO needed thousands of IITians. Few good ones are more than enough. Rest can keep selling underwears online or write shitty novels, I don't mind. I don't want their ilk to join army, DRDO or ISRO anyway.
     
  9. Alien

    Alien Regular Member

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    Well Said, couldn't agree more! However, does few good ones join ISRO or DRDO etc from IIT in the first place?
     
  10. blueblood

    blueblood Senior Member Senior Member

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    Does it matter? DRDO, ISRO and others get a pretty good crop every year. It is immensely difficult to join these organizations. Ask any engineer you know.

    Organizations like HAL and DRDO are fraught with woes because of the mismanagement by the their own top brass, MOD and Armed forces not because they lack in talent.
     
  11. DingDong

    DingDong Senior Member Senior Member

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    The year I passed out, DRDO and ISRO had visited the campus, not a single B.tech. opted for the options. Reason?
    A. Reservation over Meritocracy
    B. Bad work environment
    C. Internal politics and lobbying
    D. Zero risk taking, zero innovation

    An IIT graduate prefers Flipcart/Amazon/Yahoo over DRDO/ISRO because Flipcart etc provide better work environment, what you expect is what you get, no surprises. No need to indulge in corruption.

    Believe it or not organizations like Amazon, Yahoo, Flipcart have contributed more to the basic technical research than all of the top-class Indian Research organizations combined together. There is absolutely no place for risk-taking and free-thinking within any Indian Organization, including those big corporates like Reliance and TCS.

    May I ask what did the fine institutions of India like DRDO/ISRO manage to discover/build which was not discovered/built already? I am not taking about Science, I am talking about Technology.

    Just for the information of the forum members, direct foreign placement is already banned in IITs. Most of the graduates opt for advanced studies in foreign universities and decide to never come back. This proves the pathetic quality of Research in IITs.

    Those Gulf workers may be remitting more than the IITians, but the Gulf workers did not build India's positive image abroad. The positive image was created by the high-skill and bright people who have made immense contributions to science & technology and global finance and healthcare and IITians are amongst those kinds of people. India has been indirect beneficiary of their work, even though those people might not have sent any money back.
     

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