D-Day, Normandy

Discussion in 'Military History' started by W.G.Ewald, Jun 7, 2013.

  1. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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  3. PredictablyMalicious

    PredictablyMalicious Punjabi Senior Member

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  4. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    In the "Indian context"? What is that? Neo-Nazi? Yes there are too many of you little pukes here.

    In the context of December 6, 1944, your remark shows you to be a myopic asshole. There are too many pathetic Walter Mittys (look it up, it's a story by James Thurber) like you on DFI who wouldn't know one end of a rifle from another in the first place. India would be part of the The Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere today if it weren't for British, Americans and Australians. For that matter, Hitler would have been happy to put you little hindoos in his ovens along with the remaining Jews if he had prevailed. And, I as I see it, you all will be speaking Chinese eventually because of your racist hate of whites.

    It is truly a shame that DFI allows ignoramuses like you to even post. And there really isn't a sufficient number of knowledgeable posters to counteract the overwhelming mass of braying jackasses like you. After 18 months I really don't see any difference between Indians like you and the Pakistanis.

    Indians who should be honored are the soldiers captured in North Africa who refused to be turned into Wehrmacht because they knew what it meant to eat the King's salt. Figure that out, fool. You don't deserve to shine their shoes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2013
  5. PredictablyMalicious

    PredictablyMalicious Punjabi Senior Member

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    Whatever, I and millions of Indians don't give a fk about World War 2 or Europeans. The world does not revolve around white people anymore.Try doing something about that you melodramatic asshole.
     
  6. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    You may not care a tuppence for WWI or WWII, but don't be the spokesperson for all Indians.

    I hope you are aware that in WWII, the war dead of Indian soldiers as reported by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, was a total death of 87,032. Then there were the wounded.

    Maybe you could learn a bit from this

    Honouring the veteran

    A veteran Indian army officer, Colonel P P Vyas had recently circulated an extract (pages 110 & 111) from the book ‘Toward Resurgent India ’ written by Lt. Gen.(Retd.) M. M. Lakhera, one time Lt. Gov. of Pondicherry and also of Andaman & Nicobar, and now the Governor of Mizoram (and my old teacher at the College of Combat for the Senior Command Course).

    It made me happy to see how Indian old soldiers are still recognised in the United Kingdom. It also made me sad at the contrast in India, where the old soldier would have been elbowed out by an indifferent policeman on security duty to make way for the Deputy Prime Minister, who would whiz past with red lights blazing. I doubt whether any member of our cabinet would recognise a Param Vir Chakra, the Indian equivalent one of Victoria Cross, even if they see one.


    Here is what Lt Gen Lakhera says: “I had gone to UK in 1995 as Deputy Leader of the Indian Delegation to take part in the 50th Anniversary celebrations of the victory in Europe during the Second World War. I along with four other Army officers, had just stepped out after attending the inaugural session and were waiting on the roadside for the traffic to ease so as to walk across the road to the vehicle park. Among those with me was Honorary Captain Umrao Singh,a Victorian Cross winner (unfortunately, I have received the sad news of his expiry just two days back). All of a sudden a car moving on the road came to a halt in front of us and a well dressed gentleman stepped out. He approached Umrao Singh and said, “Sir, may I have the privilege of shaking hand with the Victoria Cross?” He shook hands with him. Evidently he had spotted Umrao Singh’s medal from his car and had stopped his car to pay his respect to a winner of the highest gallantry medal of his country.

    Then he looked at me and said, “General, you are from Indian Army.” When I replied in affirmative, he gave out his name, saying that he was Maichile Hailstine. I was absolutely astounded as the recognition dawned on me that he was the Deputy Prime Minister of UK . I was totally overawed by such courtesy shown by a dignitary of the second highest status in the British Government and humbly thanked him for having invited our delegation for the VE Day function. Again his reply was typical of his sagacity, “General, it is we the British, who should be grateful to your country and your Armed Forces, who had helped us win both the first and the second World wars. How can we be ever so ungrateful to forget your country’s great contribution.” Suddenly I became conscious that all the traffic behind his car had come to stand still. I hurried to thank him and politely requested him to move along to relieve the traffic hold-up. He stated, “Sir, how dare I drive off when Victoria Cross has to cross the road.”

    Realizing his genuine feeling I and my colleagues quickly crossed the road. Reaching the other side I looked back and saw that Mr. Hailstine was still standing waiting for the Victoria Cross to be safely across. Ladies & Gentlemen, that is the type of regards they have for their decorated soldiers. I have always aspired that similar respect could be shown at least to a Param Vir Chakra or Ashok Chakra winner by the leaders and prominent figures in our country.”
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2013
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  7. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    As far as white or black, here is also something for you



    I am not personally bothered about anyone's colour.

    Guess why?

    I am confident of myself and I can hold my own whether I am talking to a white or black or brown or yellow!

    One must never have insecurity and instead should be confident of himself and his capabilities!
     
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  8. Waffen SS

    Waffen SS New Member

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    Sorry, mate, our perspective is different. Hitler was evil, no doubt(Except some of his good works). But Enemy's enemy is our Friend, that's what we followed in our Freedom Movement(US also followed this in US revolution). Britain was and is hypocrite. They said they are fighting for freedom, but was violating Indian's human right.

    French violated human rights in French Indo-China and in North Africa.

    US violated human rights during occupation of Philippines and it's bloody history on Red Indians. Sorry for this.

    By the way Heinrich Severloh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "Heinrich Severloh was a soldier in the German 352nd Infantry Division stationed in Normandy in 1944, sometimes referred to as The Beast of Omaha. He become known when he claimed in his autobiography that as a machine gunner in a simple foxhole, he inflicted over 1,000 casualties to American soldiers landing on Omaha Beach on D-Day."

    He is also known as Beast of Umaha. [​IMG]

    http://www.oisterwijk-marketgarden.com/heinrich_serveloh.html

    It is said he fired 12,000 MG 42 rounds, and 400 rounds Kar98 rounds, he fired Kar98s when his MG 42 barrel was being changed, even his barrels became so red hot, that near by grasses were burnt. He total fired 560 kg munitions.

    And for British Indian army, no matter how bravely they fight? We dont care. We think of Indian national army and Indian freedom Fighters.

    How ever I have much interest in WW2.

    Some good movies about D-Day are- Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers(mini series), but best movie is The Longest Day.

    The Longest Day (film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2013
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  9. SajeevJino

    SajeevJino Long walk Elite Member

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    In my View till 1947 British are Villains ..Not Now
    and Till Indo Pakistani war US is our Villain ..Not Now

    we both are good Friends Nowadays ..Whenever I travel in Indian Trains I thank to the British..whenever I see my school Building I thank British




    Don't add me into your Count as Millions
     
  10. shom

    shom Regular Member

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    I don't know sir why when i see any article or pictures or film on D-Day I feel nostalgic. By year of birth is 1987, there is no way that I can be nostalgic, It happened almost 50 years before I came on this earth. But still I feel I was there feeling the pain of every injured, every deaths devastated me and it still does. Whenever I find someone relating martyrdom and war, whenever I see someone fascinating to any job, I always remember the men who landed that day, so much forced or so much . fascinated. If fascinated then we should start our fascination by taking there names on anything, And if forced then I must say Forced fascination is needed whenever we face tyranny and black death.
     
  11. shom

    shom Regular Member

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    Are you a soldier? If not then stop your jokes, if you are then resign immediately, Indian army doesn't need soldiers who don't have the minimum courtesy of respecting another soldier.
    Villain? what do you mean by that? Now if you take that then you will say people of Afganistan are villain to us, the Iranians are villain. because all of them invaded India. Half of the world would be villain to you. Moreover we were never a foe to Americans.
     
  12. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Mugals by that denominator would be villains to India.

    But would you dare say the same to their descendants who are right now in India?

    Perceptions!

    Biases!

    Time to recognise the reality and realpolitik!
     
  13. shom

    shom Regular Member

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    Now that is annoying? You just insulted Ewald Sir. @Kunal Biswas dada I am sorry to call you but please delete the quoted post, it is violating sec- 1 and 17 of DFI rules and Guidelines.
     
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  14. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Let it remain.

    It will give the rationale to the replies thereof!
     
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  15. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    There are a host of things that the British did that were reprehensible.

    There were also host of things, that have helped India to find its feet so quickly, unlike other countries, because of what the British did.

    Therefore, a balance is required to evaluate.

    We are proud to be free Indians and should be proud of where India is today.

    But that does not mean that we hang on to the baggage of hate (rightly or wrongly), because hate and anger clouds clear thinking to face the future boldly!

    WWI and WWII happened because of reasons beyond Indian control. We participated in it. We had the option. If Indians did not like it, then they should have quit the Army. That they did not and fought by the side of the British, is no fault of the British if one looks at it with rationality. So, why blame the British?

    I am not fan of the British, but I would always stand for reality and truth, as honestly as I can!

    Think that over!
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2013
  16. TrueSpirit

    TrueSpirit Senior Member Senior Member

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    British Indian armed forces were somewhat like a professional mercenary army:

    Theoretically: Ready to put down their lives in the line of duty, but

    Practically: They were doing so, in the defense of those who provide them with livelihood. Rather than some imaginary sense of nationhood, patriotism or anything else.

    If Indians had a real choice in those times, there would be hardly any native Indians in British Indian Army. Unfortunately, poverty was the biggest reality in those times & majority of Indians never had a real choice.

    & Indians have done so (being in service of their imperial masters) regularly for last 800 years, roughly between 1192-1947 CE. So, no big deal. White, Semi-white/brown (Central-Asian, Iranian, Afghan etc.) hardly ever mattered to us. Those who paid their bills, Indians fought along their side.

    And it is more or less, the same pattern world-over, throughout history. "Now, that's real-politic".
     
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  17. Waffen SS

    Waffen SS New Member

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    All though this discussion is going off topic, May I ask China and Iran were never colonies, do they dont have Railway? Today Indian railway is dedicated to serve people and Indian industry. They were not colonies, dont they have School system?

    British created Railway to send troops to rebellious area as soon as possible and to smuggle Indian wealth to Britain, not to serve Indian public.

    Britain attacked us as a nation. Unlike Afghanistan or Iran, by the way they(Iran and Afghanistan) were not self-proclaimed "Civilized" unlike British, they did not paint a rosy picture of India, British were claiming British leave India, then it will be an anarchy. Indians are expert enough to rule them selves. British claimed under British rule India was developing. Neither Iran or Afghanistan said so.

    Please understand the fact.

    For topic, I believe Germans would do better if they decided to follow Rommel's war plan, crushing enemy in beach head. And it could be done if Germans were mentally prepared and if they decided to support German garrisons of Umaha, Utah, Sword, Juno, Point-Du-Hoc, Gold with their massive artillery as well as if the Panzer division which was under direct control of Hitler, advanced.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2013
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  18. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    All Armies the world over do that unless soldiers have a stake in the system...

    Indian peasant makes a good soldier because he has nothing better to do except tilling the land the whole year and still dying of hunger...

    If Indian Govt allows India soldiers to be recruited for the British or American Armies you will find Indians stuffed American forces.

    And pray tell me in entire history of mankind which Army was not mercenary in nature.... ??

    Even Naxals have mercinaries peasants and tribal.... mercinary means selling their services for monatary rewards...
     
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  19. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

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    Don't be so full of yourself. Your post implies that the allies saved India and the rest of the world from Hitler. You are the myopic asshole. Thanks to Hitler Europe's colonial tyranny is dead. Only its been replaced by american thuggery, you being a classic example. Knowing the barrel or butt of a rifle? Common petty criminals know that. That's how special you are if you think having served in your armed forces somehow makes you first among equals.

    Again, thank god for Hitler.
     
  20. wrigsted

    wrigsted Regular Member

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    Yes, yes, everyone knows if it had not been for those damned Englishman, India would be paradise on earth, Not a developed country, but the developed country all other nations would look up to, the pinnacle of knowledge and welfare.
    Oh, the evil white people, it's all their fault, and so one.....

    On topic: I for one is mindful of d-day and honor the young men who gave their lives so I had the opportunity to grow up in freedom. Denmark was a few hours from being "liberated" by the Russians and then I had grown up in a part of the Warsaw pact, not a thought I cherish. The weapons (Lee-Enfield) my father had when he was soldiers in the 50 'was picked up on the beaches of Normandy.
     
  21. SajeevJino

    SajeevJino Long walk Elite Member

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    If there is no British in my Village ...Yes I' not going into a train only Major Cities get Train links Like Nowadays Metro Train and Electric Train ..

    British Building is Converted into a School in my Village ..If there is no British I want to go 10 miles for School .a private School is established in my Village is after 2000
    Even Many Indian's also Accept this word
     

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