Currently planned Indian nuclear triad

Discussion in 'Strategic Forces' started by shaka, Oct 5, 2010.

  1. shaka

    shaka Regular Member

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    Currently India is a regional player. This is what we are planning to do atleast for now. As far as nuclear triad go, it has three components; Air-based , Land-based and Sea-based. Second-Strike capability demands diversification of nuclear weapon delivery systems which include Bombers, Land based Ballistic Missiles, Submarine based Ballistic Missiles etc. Indian Projected nuclear triad goes like this:

    1. Air: It deals with bombers and air dropped weapons. Latest SFC request for 40 fighter bombers will satisfy this requirement. Assuming a flanker class fighter will be chosen for this role will be good enough for regional deployment. With buddy refueling, it will be able to carry precision nuke strike within our region if it is ever required.
    There are two requirement in my opinion:
    A) Nirbhay(Projected Range 100km) has to be nuclear capable even if they never claim it to be.
    B) SFC should be able to use Nirbhay from their fighters/bombers.
    If these two requirements are met then I think we have covered "Air" part of our nuclear triad on regional level.

    If we want global level triad than we need bigger long range bomber aircraft. Currently there are no such plans.

    2. Land: It deals with land based missiles. We currently have Agni-2. Agni-3 if already not produced will soon be in production. Agni-5 will be tested next year. And most probably will be in production 2014-15 onwards. This will give us range of 5000km. I think a good production run of Agni-5 if successful will satisfy completely our regional land part of triad. Agni-5 will have MIRV capability.

    Again if want global triad we need long range ICBMs of range all the way upto 15000 to 18000km. Again currently no plans.


    3. Sea: It deals with missiles launched from (underwater) Submarines. With nuclear powered ATV coming into service soon, India will join few selected nations with that capability. With more nuclear submarines on way and with K15(Sagarika; nuclear capable) , I think we will have this part of Triad covered atleast on regional level.

    Again if want global triad, we will need more nuclear subs with long range missiles maybe Sagarika-2 in future. Currently there are no such plans.

    Now by regional level I mean Central Asia, China, East Asia, West Asia, South East Asia, Arabian Peninsula, IOR and of-course South Asia. Map of Asia for general reference: Asia Map

    India has the capability to develop technology required for a global level nuclear triad. However that will be a political decision and it will require a strong central leadership.
     
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  3. sesha_maruthi27

    sesha_maruthi27 Senior Member Senior Member

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    The present Government is not daring enough and lacks in guts to develop the country's Defence capabilities. Instead of developing our Defence capabilities, they are trying to woo the people for votes for sustaining their power and are concentrating on how to bribe the people by just throwing some statements that they are developing the country's Defence capabilities at a rapid pace. But, the latest news suggest that the Defence ministry has put a hold to such a rapid development and has slowed down the pace. This leads no were........
     
  4. shaka

    shaka Regular Member

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    EagleOne,

    Why do you think its too optimistic? IMHO India will be able to develop a nuclear triad atleast on regional level within next 10-15 years, that will include Agni-5 (canister capability), ATV with K15 missiles, also other diesel subs can also be used for nuclear second strike. Systems can be modified if there is an urgent need. IAF has had capability for delivering free fall nukes since many years ago with Mirage2000s.

    sesha_maruthi27,

    Armed forces and Govt. are not the same. While Govt. can mess around, armed forces cannot afford that behavior. In the end Govt. has to listen to Forces and they are doing it. Armed forces also need to get their act together and make procurement process more efficient. MMRCA is prime example of that, where Govt. agreed long time ago.
     
  5. shaka

    shaka Regular Member

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    Deleted (Double post)
     
  6. EagleOne

    EagleOne Regular Member

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    well in next 10-15 years ...yes we may ... u didnt mentioned it earlier

    i said optimistic becuse of the missile what u have discussed are still under testing ... non of them is night capably so far
    since tests results are coming to sucess/partically sucess /failure so we need time to develop full fleged perfect missile systems .
    and nuclear traid comes only with icbms & statergic bombers in place ...and althought if we go for regional triad we need a submire launched missiles capabile of traving 5000km for 2nd strike capability which still need to be developed
     
  7. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    Actually GOI has messed up a lot of deals and situations that have been pressing the military since many years. And this was stooping to new lows with government scrapping of gunship contracts numerous times, cancelling artillery tenders etc until armed forces started complaining to people with open irritation expressed many times by the new services chiefs and vice chiefs. This scared the babus and they started toeing the line afterwards.

    I would actually credit 2 people for shutting the politicians up from military matters; Vice Marshal PK Barbora and ACM Naik. Both have been aggressive in defending the military and have expressed their displeasure of government openly in public and therefore keeping politician butting in in check. Marshal Naik is the kind of commander we need to stop meddling politicians from ruining deals and acquisitions.
     
  8. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    India's nuclear triad

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...y-chief/articleshow/7030573.cms#ixzz1AwwxXc8v

    In a year, India will have nuclear triad: Navy chief


    NEW DELHI: Only three countries, US, Russia and China, can be said to have fully-operational nuclear weapon triads -- the capability to fire nuclear-tipped missiles from land, air and sea. India will gatecrash into this highly-exclusive club by 2012.

    Navy chief Admiral Nirmal Verma, not given to making dramatic statements, said the triad will be complete once its crucial underwater leg, the country's first indigenous nuclear submarine aptly named INS Arihant or the "destroyer of enemies", is commissioned towards late-2011 or early-2012.

    The land and air legs are already in place with the Agni family of road and rail-mobile ballistic missiles as well as fighter jets like Mirage-2000s and Sukhoi-30MKIs jury-rigged to deliver nuclear weapons.

    "When INS Arihant goes to sea, it will be on a deterrent patrol (read armed with nucelar-tipped missiles). The triad will then be in place... the aim is to make it as effective as possible," Admiral Verma said on Thursday, in the run-up to Navy Day on December 4.

    This comes barely a day after Wikileaks revealed that American and European diplomats were greatly alarmed about Pakistan's feverish production of nuclear weapons. Estimates show Pakistan already has around 70 to 90 warheads, higher than India's 60 to 80. China, of course, is way ahead with around 240 warheads.

    While Pakistan is nowhere near getting a nuclear submarine, China has 10 of them in its 62-submarine fleet, with three of them being SSBNs (armed with long-range strategic missiles). India, in contrast, has just 15 conventional and ageing diesel-electric submarines.

    Consequently, INS Arihant is crucial to India's nuclear deterrence doctrine, which revolves around a clear "no-first use" policy. A robust and survivable second-strike capability is hugely dependent on having nuclear-powered submarines, armed with SLBMs (submarine-launched ballistic missiles), which can operate silently underwater for several months at a time.

    Admiral Verma said INS Arihant, which was "launched" at Vizag in July 2009, would have potent SLBM capabilities to complete the triad. With INS Arihant's miniature 83 mw pressurised light-water reactor slated to go "critical" within a month or two for sea-acceptance trials, Navy also seems quite confident about ongoing undersea tests of the 700-km K-15 and 3,500-km K-4 SLBMs.

    The 6,000-tonne INS Arihant, which has four silos on its hump to carry 12 K-15s or four extended range K-4s, is to be followed by another two nuclear submarines under the secretive Rs 30,000 crore Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) project.

    Navy, on its part, wants to have three SSBNs and six SSNs (nuclear-powered attack submarines) in the years ahead. The force will also finally induct the K-152 Nerpa submarine, on a 10-year lease from Russia, towards April-May 2011 after several delays.

    While the 12,000-tonne Nerpa will not come armed with long-range missiles due to international treaties, it will help train Indian sailors in the complex art of operating nuclear submarines. It will also be a lethal hunter of enemy submarines and warships, armed with torpedoes and 300-km Klub-S cruise missiles.
     
  9. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    http://www.allindianewssite.com/8514/india-will-have-nuclear-triad-in-2012

    India will have nuclear triad in 2012


    Nirmal Verma, the chief Admiral of Navy said that India would have nuclear triad in the year 2012. Only three countries in the world have operational nuclear weapon triads. The countries are United States, Russia and China has the authority to fire nuclear missiles from land, sea, and air. After completing the triad underwater leg, India will join this group in the year 2012. INS Arihant is the first nuclear submarine in India.

    It is also called destroyer of enemies, which is the apt name. On December 4, Admiral Nirmal Verma said, “When INS Arihant goes to sea; it will be on a deterrent patrol.

    The triad will then be in place, the aim is to make it as effective as possible.” Already the land and air legs are with Agni family of Mirage-2000s and Sukhoi-30MKIs jury-rigged which delivers nuclear weapons. Europeans and American have fear about nuclear weapons, which was produced in Pakistan. Pakistan has more warheads (70-90) than India (60-80). China has 240 warheads around. India is having 15 conventional and ageing diesel-electric submarines.

    Admiral said that on the hump of 6,000-tonne INS Arihant, there are four silos. These four silos will carry four extended range K-4s or 12 K-15s and two nuclear submarines with Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) project cost of Rs.30,000 crore. Navy wants to have six SSNs (nuclear-powered attack submarines) and three SSBNs (armed with long-range strategic missiles) in the upcoming years.

    It will degrade the K-152 Nerpa submarine, on a 10-year lease from Russia. Due to some treaties on Nerpa, Nerpa will not have any armed with long-range missiles. Nerpa helping the Indian sailors at the difficult situation like operating nuclear submarines and handling them. Nerpa will also hunting the enemy submarines and warships, armed with torpedoes and 300-km Klub-S cruise missiles.

    Read more: India will have nuclear triad in 2012 - All India News http://www.allindianewssite.com/8514/india-will-have-nuclear-triad-in-2012#ixzz1CR9Ydjlu
     
  10. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    http://www.hindustantimes.com/India...d-from-land-air-or-water/Article1-620191.aspx


    India will soon have potential to launch N-warhead from land, air or water


    India would soon have the potential to launch a nuclear warhead from land, air or water. For the first time, the country's Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) chief Srikumar Banerjee spoke about the weaponisation programmes undertaken to ensure minimum credible detterence. The announcement was made at
    the founder's day celebrations at BARC, India's main n-weapon complex, on Friday.

    He said that all the three forces, the Army, Navy and Air Force, will have fully functional delivery systems.

    “Our strategic programme will be further strengthened to assure minimum credible deterrents - our triad of the delivery system will be fully functional,” Banerjee said.

    This would ensure that missiles carrying nuclear warheads could be delivered by the Army, Navy or Air Force.

    The AEC chief also said that entry and exit points to the country, by land, sea and air, will be equipped with scanners of different kinds to provide security against any unauthorised movement of nuclear materials.

    In the wake of Pokhran nuclear weapons tests conducted in May 1998, former prime minister, Atal Behari Vajpayee had said that India would have a minimum credible deterrent and the delivery systems for the Army, Navy and Air Force will be fully functional.

    Also, this is for the first time since the embargo on civil nuclear co-operation was lifted in September 2008 that India has talked about its weaponisation programme to ensure minimum credible deterrence.

    “Electromagnetic and high power microwave devices will be deployed in our missile defence system,” Banerjee also said. Deployment of electromagnetic and high power microwave devices in missile defence system would help our missiles home into targets with precision, he added.
     
  11. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ird-leg-of-nuke-triad/articleshow/4823578.cms

    N-submarine to give India crucial third leg of nuke triad


    VISAKHAPATNAM: There's still a long way to go for INS Arihant to become fully-operational. "Each and every system has to be tested and flushed clean. It will take four sets of flushing and a year before the miniature 80 MW nuclear reactor, and its containment vessel fitted in the submarine's hull, attains criticality," said a senior officer connected with the ATV (advanced technology vessel) project.

    Moreover, at present, it will be armed with only the 700-km range two-stage K-15 SLBMs (submarine-launched ballistic missiles), which pale in comparison to the well over 5,000-km range missiles of the US, Russia and China.

    The Chinese fleet of 62 submarines, with at least 10 of them nuclear-powered, for instance, is readying itself for its new JL-2 SLBM, which has a strike range of over 7,200-km, capable of rattling even the US. India is still some distance away from the extended range K-5 missile with a 3,500-km strike range.

    Be that as it may, India with INS Arihant has taken a big leap forward towards developing the all-important third leg of its nuclear triad — the ability to fire nukes from the land, air and sea. The first two legs, in the shape of fighters like Mirage-2000s jury-rigged to deliver nuclear warheads and the Agni series of rail and road mobile missiles, are already in place.

    What makes a nuclear submarine the most preferred option is that it's extremely difficult to detect and target by an adversary. Unlike conventional diesel-electric submarines, a nuclear-powered submarine can operate underwater for unlimited periods of time. This is especially important for a country like India, which has a declared no-first-use nuclear doctrine and, hence, must have a survivable and lethal second-strike capability to retaliate against a conceivable first pre-emptive strike by an enemy.

    The PM clarified, "We do not have any aggressive designs, nor do we seek to threaten anyone." He added, "We seek an external environment in our region and beyond that which is conducive to our peaceful development and the protection of our value systems. Nevertheless, it's incumbent upon us to take all measures necessary to safeguard our country and to keep pace with technological developments worldwide. It has been rightly said that eternal vigilance is the price of liberty."

    Obliquely pointing to the two more ATVs already sanctioned by the government under a budget of around Rs 30,000 crore and much bigger SSBNs after them, the PM said the "lessons learnt from this launch" would enable the ATV programme to "achieve better results in the coming years".

    Defence minister A K Antony, on his part, said INS Arihant was a "significant step" towards a potent and credible second-strike capability. The PM, Antony, Navy chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta, DAE chief Anil Kakodkar, ATV director-general Vice-Admiral (retd) D S P Verma praised Russia for their "consistent and invaluable cooperation" in India's nuclear submarine programme.

    What was left unsaid was that India would also get an Akula-II class nuclear submarine, the 12,000-tonne 'K-152 Nerpa', on a 10-year lease by end-2009 as part of a secret contract signed with Russia in January 2004, along with the package deal for refit of aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov and MiG-29K fighters. India's eventual goal is to field three SSBNs of its own much before 2020.
     
  12. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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  13. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    http://www.peopleforum.cn/redirect.php?tid=42597&goto=lastpost

    Russia to help India develop nuclear-triad


    Moscow, Oct 5 (PTI) Ahead of Defence Minister Anatoly Serdyukov''s New Delhi visit, a top defence expert has said Russia should help India in developing its "wholesome" nuclear triad to further advance bilateral defence cooperation.


    "In my view, Russia must help India in the development of its wholesome nuclear triad, so that it has naval, air and land platforms for its nuclear delivery systems," Ruslan Pukhov, Director of the Moscow-based Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST) said.


    Pukhov is also a member of Public Advisory Board of the Russian Ministry of Defence and will accompany Serdyukov on his New Delhi visit beginning tomorrow during which the India-Russia intergovernmental commission on military- technical cooperation co-chaired by Defence A K Antony is to hold its annual session.

    "Why shouldn''t we jointly work for the development of an Indian SSBN (nuclear submarine for launching ballistic missiles)?" Pukhov told PTI.


    He suggested that India and Russia could jointly develop a "de facto" common naval system of nuclear deterrence similar to one the US and Britain have.


    "In case China develops its fleet of aircraft carriers, Russia could offer Project 949 (Nato codename Oscar-II) nuclear
    submarines, naval Tu-22M3 bombers and even, although could sound incredible, the nuclear propelled missile cruisers of Project 1144 (Orlan class)," Pukhov said.


    Reacting to India''s apprehensions about China''s growing military clout, Pukhov termed as false reports that Moscow was giving superior weapons and technologies to Beijing.


    "The type of harmony and complementarity of the military-political interests Russia has with India, will simply never be in our relations with China. This would contradict the elementary norms of geopolitics," he said.


    "You will never hear Russian officials expressing concern at the growing Chinese military might, but all of them are well aware of its implications and very well understand that PRC poses a potential threat to Russia''s Far East and Eastern Siberia," he said.




    The massive wargames Vostok-2010 (Orient 2010) involving thousand of servicemen and warships in the Far East and Eastern Siberia, during which the Russian troops also practiced the use of tactical nuclear weapons are the reflection of this concern, he said.


    "The Indian Air Force''s Sukhoi Su-30MKI is a generation ahead of Su-30MKK/MK2 fighters given to China. Same can be said about Talwar class stealth frigates built for India and ''Sovremenny'' class destroyer sold to China.


    "While India and Russia are jointly developing hypersonic BrahMos cruise missiles, fifth generation fighter (FGFA) and futuristic multirole transport aircraft (MTA), no such project is underway with China," Pukhov noted. (PTI)
     
  14. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/09/pti-indias-joint-nuclear-command-wants.html

    India's Joint Nuclear Command Wants 40 Nuclear Strike Jets

    A befuddling report on the wires. The Press Trust of India, reports that India's joint nuclear command -- the Strategic Forces Command -- is looking to procure 40 fighters for two dedicated strategic strike squadrons. The report indicates that while the Indian Air Force's Mirage-2000s, Jaguars and Su-30MKIs have so far been earmarked for the nuclear strike profile, the SFC wants two squadrons of its own. The report says nothing more. The Ministry of Defence has not commented on the report.

    If this report is accurate -- and there are no official indications so far that it is -- the obvious questions would be: (a) Why does the SFC need its own fighters -- why can't it continue to depend on available IAF assets? (b) Why the need to ramp up the air-delivered leg of the nuclear triad when Indian doctrine points to more substantive deterrence from strategic land-based missiles and an SSBN fleet, and far less on air-delivered deterrence? (c) Why does a nuclear strike fleet need as many as 40 aircraft? (d) Does India have the kind of stand-off nuclear weapon capability to justify such a fresh induction of assets? (e) If the SFC were to get its own "mini air force", would these still be operated by the IAF? (f) In which case, what difference would it make?

    A totally separate but tantalizing coincidence -- in June, Dassault offered the IAF a fast-track sale of 40 Rafales to shore up squadron strength ahead of the MMRCA induction. The Rafale is also the only aircraft explicitly described in its bid document as a nuclear capable strike fighter. Answers to those questions above and more details later this evening.
     
  15. ApFaq

    ApFaq New Member

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    I do not think India is ready for a global role just yet. Yes India is a regional power and its growing but before it gets involved in global issues it needs to address the large number of internal issues.

    1) Moaist rebels
    2) Poverty
    3) health care
    4) Separatist movements in Assam/kashmir etc.

    Only if we can effective address or have systems in place to address these issues, then we can begin to look outside of Asia to play a bigger global role. For now we must fix the domestic issues and solidify our position in the region.
     
  16. EagleOne

    EagleOne Regular Member

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    here the discussion is going on nuclear traid not for the india's role in global affairs ... i think
     
  17. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    agree with some modifications !
    to me only #2 - namely the poverty situation is the only one that counts - overvcoming it easier said than done

    ~beyond that - india shouldnt actively seek to be recognised as a gobal power but rather be invited in
     
  18. i don't know why is everyone referrring to induction of ins arihant as completion of india's nuclear triad.india already has a operational nuclear triad-the sea leg is completed by dhanush nuclear capable ballistic missile which can be launched from selected indian navy warships.hence by induction of ins arihant we will complete nuclear quad.
     

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