Countries By Corruption Perceptions Index 2013

[asianobserve]

No, the moral of the story is not hogwash.

It is hogwash for those who do not understand how statistics are used to project a case.

Samsung and others are coming into India in a big way and the sweet talk is just an indication of their intentions.

If the word is Transparency. then it should be transparent in addressing all issues and not merely the ones that satisfy their agenda.

Corruption is all encompassing and not limited to desired areas of interest.

Anyone would realise that but those who are blind to anything said or done by the West.

I guess your countrymen who were surveyed are all idiots for declaring that the level of corruption in India is quiet high.

Expect more praise releases for India from the CEOs of other foreign companies. After they said their pieces then they will ask for tax breaks and favorable labor standards.

 

[Ray]

Relax. Nobody is plotting to topple the Modi or Putin governments using the 2013 Corruption Index.

This is not about the West judging countries, this is about the citizens of these countries surveyed judging the level of corruption of their own public and private sectors (INdians are surveyed for the level of corruption in India, Malaysians for Malaysia, and so on and so forth). You better read the survey mechanism on this Corruption Index before you start rounding up the "usual suspects."

Nobody can topple Govt that has a popular mandate. Therefore, it is you who has to relax and not give out confabulated mish mash to support your agenda.

If the level of corruption is country specific, then the whole exercise to rate them in an international standing is bogus.

The reason is so simple that even the uneducated can comprehend.

And what is the reason?

Each country has a different working condition, different sociological environment and different yardsticks, different levels of socio economic structure et al.

Therefore, there is no comparison.

Has your apple of the eye Transparency International taken into consideration the Western countries bribing the third world countries officials to get their job done?

Would that not also be taken into account in computing corruption for those western countries?

Or the corruption by the West, par for the course since TI is Western generated?

Or is it that the Western citizens are blind to the corruption that their Govts encourage elsewhere, since it does not materially affect them and instead adds to their economy and good living standards?

The very standards achieved by corruption will be used in showing some more statistical analysis stating how modern and happy they are and all that bunkum that fills the star in the eyes of the Oriental Westernised Gentleman or Wogs as the British call them.

 

[Ray]

I guess your countrymen who were surveyed are all idiots for declaring that the level of corruption in India is quiet high.

Not idiots, but agenda driven sure.

 

[asianobserve]

Nobody can topple Govt that has a popular mandate. Therefore, it is you who has to relax and not give out confabulated mish mash to support your agenda.

If the level of corruption is country specific, then the whole exercise to rate them in an international standing is bogus.

The reason is so simple that even the uneducated can comprehend.

And what is the reason?

Each country has a different working condition, different sociological environment and different yardsticks, different levels of socio economic structure et al.

Once again, relax. Chill out man. The Corruption Index does not claim to be 100% correct or absolutely complete. It only sets out to give some perceptual gauge on the level of corruption in the surveyed countries.

8. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A COUNTRY/TERRITORY'S RANK AND ITS SCORE?

A country/territory's score indicates the perceived level of public sector corruption there on a scale of 0 - 10, where 0 means that a country is perceived as highly corrupt and 10 means that a country is perceived as very clean. A country's rank indicates its position relative to the other countries/territories included in the index. It is important to keep in mind that a country's rank can change simply because new countries enter the index or others drop out.

9. IS THE COUNTRY/TERRITORY WITH THE LOWEST SCORE THE WORLD'S MOST CORRUPT NATION?

No. The CPI is mostly an assessment of perception of administrative and political corruption. It is not a verdict on the levels of corruption of entire nations or societies or of their policies and activities. Citizens of those countries/territories that score at the lower end of the CPI have shown the same concern about and condemnation of corruption as the public in countries that perform strongly. Further, the country/territory with the lowest score is the one where public sector corruption is perceived to be most prevalent among those included in the list. There are more than 200 sovereign nations in the world, and the 2011 CPI ranks 183 of them. The CPI provides no information about countries/territories that are not included.

2011 Corruption Perceptions Index -- In Detail

 

[Ray]

Once again, relax. Chill out man. The Corruption Index does not claim to be 100% correct. It only sets out to give some perceptual gauge on the level of corruption in the surveyed countries.

I will go one further to assist you while I 'chill out' as you mention.

You should Chillax.

Unless one is 100% right, then what is churned out is agenda driven and propaganda.

Or is it that the Western citizens are blind to the corruption that their Govts encourage elsewhere, since it does not materially affect them and instead adds to their economy and good living standards?

The very standards achieved by such not 100% right reports on corruption that the Western countries themselves encourage in the less developed countries for their own economic and political will be used in showing some more statistical analysis stating how modern and happy they are and all that bunkum that fills the star in the eyes of the Oriental Westernised Gentleman or Wogs as the British call them.

I accept western values, but do not swallow everything blindly, as some WOGs do.

2011 Corruption Perceptions Index -- In Detail

The quotes from the above is all hogwash and ways to pretend to be 'honest' in approach.

They may bowl you over and put the stars in your eyes, but they are not impressive as far as I am concerned.

it is same as these threads you see in all forums - Which country has the best Army in the world - and such like.

There is no common denominator.

Further, if a country's own people feel in the way it is projected, do these people compare it with other countries, without living in them to decide if their country is worse or not?

Perceptions can be very skewed.

 

[asianobserve]

@Ray

I am not enamored to Transparancy International. I heard that organization before but I do not give much attention to it. In fact I am even surprised that it is actually the organization that collates this survey (from their primer it appears that they work with several international organizations to conduct the survey). Note that I did not post this thread, I am merely posting my comments and reactions. In fact, I am a little bit disappointed since I believe that we should be higher in rank than Chile or Qatar.

 

[asianobserve]

Unless one is 100% right, then what is churned out is agenda driven and propaganda.

So the agenda of this whole Survey is being set by Denmark, Singapore, Switzerland, Finland and Norway since they are consistently in the top 5 or top 10?

Or is it that the Western citizens are blind to the corruption that their Govts encourage elsewhere, since it does not materially affect them and instead adds to their economy and good living standards?

You're clearly in denial. You should be grateful that there's such things as this so that we can evaluate at least where we are currently in terms of corruption compared to our neighbors and other countries. If we are only constructive perhaps we can come up with national policies to improve our corruption index. Or if you are a businessman doing business abroad then you can gauge the relative safety of doing business in different countries.

The very standards achieved by such not 100% right reports on corruption that the Western countries themselves encourage in the less developed countries for their own economic and political will be used in showing some more statistical analysis stating how modern and happy they are and all that bunkum that fills the star in the eyes of the Oriental Westernised Gentleman or Wogs as the British call them.

I accept western values, but do not swallow everything blindly, as some WOGs do.

I don't know about you but I truly agree that SIngapore is in its rightful place in that index. I have also met several Swiss and Scandinavian citizens before and I tend to agree that they come from a country that is not mired in corruption.

How about you, do you think that India should at least be higher in rank than Taiwan or Israel in that index?

Perceptions can be very skewed.

Maybe, if you only base it on the perception of 2 or 5 persons.

 

[Ray]

So the agenda of this whole Survey is being by Denmark, Singapore, Switzerland, Finland and Norway since they are consistently in the top 5 or top 10?

And their socio economic environment, form of government and its systems, size of their population clamouring for domestic and economic space comparable to the others to have a level playing field?

Therefore, no world ranking can be given.

Tahiti would rank high since the stress on existence and squabbling for the limited space in individual growth is low.

You're clearly in denial. You should be grateful that there's such things as this so that we can evaluate at least where we are currently in terms of corruption compared to our neighbors and other countries. If we are only constructive perhaps we can come up with national policies to improve our corruption index. Or if you are a businessman doing business abroad then you can gauge the relative safety of doing business in different countries.

I am not in denial. I am pragmatic and not a WOG who believes that whatever the West does, it can put stars in my eyes.

If you are a business and to get your self interests fructify and you bribe, that too is corruption and what is worse, encouraging corruption. And these same Westerner claim to be paragon of virtues.

Can you not see the hypocrisy of these West generated statistics?

How does the IMF and World Bank ruin less developed coutries?

The World Bank and the International Monetary Fund wield tremendous power and influence, but exclude the voices of developing countries most adversely affected by financial and trade policies. Money rules at the World Bank and the IMF, and "consensus" at the World Trade Organization is often the product of behind-the-scenes "greenroom" bargaining and pressure from trade heavyweights such as the United States.
https://www.globalpolicy.org/social...the-three-sisters-and-other-institutions.html

And how do they do it?

Western generated value system and spurious agenda driven statistics.

I don't know about you but I truly agree that SIngapore is in its rightful place in that index. I have also met several Swiss and Scandinavian citizens before and I tend to agree that they come from a country that is not mired in corruption.

Where is the Black Money of the third world and the loot of Nazi Germany stashed?

They Swiss are commandos - living off others' land.

Scandinavian population?

How many squabbling for the economic and social space compared to say, India?

How about you, do you think that India should at least be higher in rank than Taiwan or Israel in that index?

 

[ladder]

What the former PM did was exercise his democratic right in a democratic country. You should also try it in India, it's entertaining.

But we don't cry and plot to manufacture and index when the widely accepted ones do not go our way. We take the results constructively and then strive to be better next time around.

What your Ex-PM did was entertaining, really. While G W Bush didn't give two f' about it. But the Gitmo/ Abu gharib detainees who were present were for real. a trail that took place was real. Though the executive power was ZERO.

What do you call that court " Kangaroo court"

But, I never knew to preside over a sham court in your country is " a democratic right"

BTW, what next next for your countrymen? A trial for war crimes done by Martians on Kryptonians?

But we don't cry and plot to manufacture and index

Who is crying, and who is manufacturing an index? point out.

 

[Ray]

@Ray

I am not enamored to Transparancy International. I heard that organization before but I do not give much attention to it. In fact I am even surprised that it is actually the organization that collates this survey (from their primer it appears that they work with several international organizations to conduct the survey). Note that I did not post this thread, I am merely posting my comments and reactions. In fact, I am a little bit disappointed since I believe that we should be higher in rank than Chile or Qatar.

To be frank, I never take all these polls and surveys seriously.

They are cleverly fudged to suit an agenda.

The devastation that western interests impose through their 'value chain' and fudged statistics could be seen in the 1997 Asian financial crisis.

That crisis is closer to your home.

If one takes these statistics and Oracalish statements with a pinch of salt, then one can survive and smell the coffee honestly.

Mistake me not. I am a pragmatist.

If you trawl the threads you will find that I am one who is not hyper over the claim that India is the next superpower. That is a Western generated hype so that they can rile China with and at the same time have India open up their market to the West.

We will be as superpower, when the time comes and we can cross the bridge then.

Till then, it is merely a west generated hyperbole.

 

[ladder]

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[Ray]

@asianobserve

Just watch this.


Be pragmatic and have belief in yourself, more than what the West has to peddle as the panacea of life.

 

[asianobserve]

To be frank, I never take all these polls and surveys seriously.

They are cleverly fudged to suit an agenda.

You're so fond of "agenda." I can't understand what agenda the Scandinavian countries, Singapore, Switzerland and Germany have (since they are always on top).

The devastation that western interests impose through their 'value chain' and fudged statistics could be seen in the 1997 Asian financial crisis.

Western values like all values no doubt have their no so good side. But on balance I always consider them better than the alternatives.

That crisis is closer to your home.

How can I forget, plenty of unfinished constructions and Soros becoming a household name (thanks to Mahathir)...

If one takes these statistics and Oracalish statements with a pinch of salt, then one can survive and smell the coffee honestly.

Mistake me not. I am a pragmatist.

No doubt you;re trying hard to sound a pragmatist but you're not. You're an Indian nationalist with deep seated cynicism against the West and a closet love for Russia.

If you trawl the threads you will find that I am one who is not hyper over the claim that India is the next superpower. That is a Western generated hype so that they can rile China with and at the same time have India open up their market to the West.

We will be as superpower, when the time comes and we can cross the bridge then.

Till then, it is merely a west generated hyperbole.

Well, I for one believe that India has most of the ingredients to be a super power. It just have to shake down a lot of its anti-colonialist baggage.

 

[Ray]

You're so fond of "agenda." I can't understand what agenda the Scandinavian countries, Singapore, Switzerland and Germany have (since they are always on top).




Western values like all values no doubt have their no so good side. But on balance I always consider them better than the alternatives.




How can I forget, plenty of unfinished constructions and Soros becoming a household name (thanks to Mahathir)...




No doubt you;re trying hard to sound a pragmatist but you're not. You're an Indian nationalist with deep seated cynicism against the West and a closet love for Russia.




Well, I for one believe that India has most of the ingredients to be a super power. It just have to shake down a lot of its anti-colonialist baggage.

You have to be above biases to realise what verities of life.

I am anti none, but having lived under Communism, I dare say I love Russia.

 

[Singh]

We could beat Somalia one day, Jai Hind.

Quite True !

I have a friend who deals a lot in Africa, most of the "dalals" there are Indians. No Schit.

 

[jouni]

Re: Civil war in Ukraine

Please present decent data. Things like corruption is very difficult to measure. We are looking for data that can be verified. I am willing to hear you or Akim but I want to you to present data, not opinions.

We do not want opinions to sway people in a very important matter like this.

If corruption is the important issue as you say, then West would not be fighting an economic war with Russia. Only removal of corruption will do the trick for Ukraine.

Read the transparency report, the data is there. Russia is lost for corruption, whole Putin system is based on kick backs. Like I said few weeks back, if you build a kilometer of railroad in finland, it costs less than half what the same railroad two kilometers away on the other side of the border. Ukraine is really trying to fight corruption, we must support it.

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Civil war in Ukraine

Read the transparency report, the data is there. Russia is lost for corruption, whole Putin system is based on kick backs. Like I said few years back, if you build a kilometer of railroad in finland, it costs less than half what the same railroad two kilometers away on the other side of the border. Ukraine is really trying to fight corruption, we must support it.

Which part of "things like corruption is very difficult to measure," are you having difficulty understanding? @sgarg clearly stated what he had to state.

What metrics were used to arrive at the conclusions? What are the data sources? If "Transparency International" is so transparent, then you should know this already.

 

[jouni]

Re: Civil war in Ukraine

Which part of "things like corruption is very difficult to measure," are you having difficulty understanding? @sgarg clearly stated what he had to state.

What metrics were used to arrive at the conclusions? What are the data sources? If "Transparency International" is so transparent, then you should know this already.

Read the report, the data should be there. In my country those things are in control, I do not have to read the report to know that corruption is not a problem here.

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Civil war in Ukraine

Read the report, the data should be there. In my country those things are in control, I do not have to read the report to know that corruption is not a problem here.

So, you don't know. I figured.

If you don't know, then quite being so obdurate, and say you don't know, instead of saying you don't have to read the report.

The basic idea of education is to understand what you are talking about, and not acting like a relay station.

P.S.: If you change your mind, then share the link. I just saw a whole bunch of infographics, and doesn't answer my questions.

 

[jouni]

Re: Civil war in Ukraine

So, you don't know. I figured.

If you don't know, then quite being so obdurate, and say you don't know, instead of saying you don't have to read the report.

The basic idea of education is to understand what you are talking about, and not acting like a relay station.

P.S.: If you change your mind, then share the link. I just saw a whole bunch of infographics, and doesn't answer my questions.

Corruption Perceptions Index -- 2014

Here is the link, I already posted it yesterday. @sgarg