Countering Chinese might - Indian way

IndianHawk

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The advanced heavy-water reactor (AHWR) is the latest Indian design for a next-generation nuclear reactor that burns thorium in its fuel core. It is slated to form the third stage in India's three-stage fuel-cycle plan.[1] This phase of the fuel cycle plan is supposed to be built starting with a 300MW prototype in 2016.[2]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_heavy-water_reactor

Now the construction of this reactor is likely to begin next year in the first 6 months. Our AHWR design is one of the very few to succeed and various levels of testing were going on from pas 1-1.5 years.
According to replies given in Q&A in the Indian Parliament on two separate occasions, 19 August 2010 and 21 March 2012, large scale thorium deployment is only to be expected "3 – 4 decades after the commercial operation of fast breeder reactors with short doubling time".[69][35] Full exploitation of India’s domestic thorium reserves will likely not occur until after the year 2050.[70]
AHWR would offer very little growth for the fuel build up that is essential for wide deployment of the third stage, and perhaps the impact on the accumulated fissile material could even be negative.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/India's_three-stage_nuclear_power_programme

So AHWR is a parallel option.
But real growth in thorium use can only be registered with maturity of FBRs
 

scatterStorm

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The advanced heavy-water reactor (AHWR) is the latest Indian design for a next-generation nuclear reactor that burns thorium in its fuel core. It is slated to form the third stage in India's three-stage fuel-cycle plan.[1] This phase of the fuel cycle plan is supposed to be built starting with a 300MW prototype in 2016.[2]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_heavy-water_reactor

Now the construction of this reactor is likely to begin next year in the first 6 months. Our AHWR design is one of the very few to succeed and various levels of testing were going on from pas 1-1.5 years.
Is this the reactor that the Russians were helping us to build? We are already good in Fast Breeder reactor tech so why this? Is it because of the power it produces?
 

republic_roi97

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Is this the reactor that the Russians were helping us to build? We are already good in Fast Breeder reactor tech so why this? Is it because of the power it produces?
This is our own designed, reactor which will eventually switch to thoreum as its fuel.
We have developed it because we have largest thoreum reserves in world, so much so that, we can produce continuously electricity for more than 10000 years.
Plus thoreum doesn't produces toxic waste product that uranium does.
Our design is the best in the world as said by various scientists throughout the world and we happen to be the world leader in thoreum research.
 

J20!

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Some time back when an article of Chinese computer adjudged fastest in the world was posted on Pakistan defense forum, Chinese folks were over jubilant. I complemented them and wrote that you guys can enjoy that for some time until our 138 exa flop computer come in 2017. And that was a blasphemy. Chinese members collectively attacked and bullied not only me but insulted India like they always do. They called me illiterate, big mouth, etc. They posted Abdul kalam sir’s statement that India shall become a super power in 2015. One Chinese member calculated that it will require 7600 MW electricity to operate this super computer.

China with their hyper nationalism adopted the way of beg, borrow and steal strategy to rise in the field of science and technology. They were very successful also but their success did not go well with international community as whole world see china as imperial power and an unwanted rise of a nation not god for world order and peace. There are two major emerging powers in the world today. India and china. China with their dictatorial regime collected huge amount of fund and they thought that they can not only surpass india but US also by spending heavily in strategic areas and soon world shall start recognizing them as the competitor of US and subsequently the sole super power of the world. However, Democratic india has her own way to take on china.

Now tomorrow Vijay bhatkar gave a lecture in which he once again mentioned of this 138+ exaflpo super super computer of India. On discussion on PDF, one Indian guy explained how it was made possible by designing different architect of flexible buses rather than fixed buses. This is the frugal India way of innovation. Many things appear to be impossible may be made possible with innovation. India is exactly doing this. When I read this,, many such frugal innovations struck my mind which I want to discuss here in brief.


When whole world was contemplating mars mission just not for exploring Mars but also to project their power, ability and excellence in space science and technology. Many nations tried and got mixed result of success and failure.. They used costly heavy rockets. China used Russian rocket to their mars mission and failed. India too tried but India had a modest rocket of just 1.5 ton capacity. India conceived a unique frugal mission to mars using gravity of earth and reached Mars in its first attempt. Mission which a planned life of 6 months is now been extended for indefinite period.

China started building heavy rockets to establish their superiority in space. India worked on minimizing the launch cost and currently it is just half of any other agency worldwide. As china worked on increased capacity of vehicles, India focused on reusability of their space vehicle. India is working on one stage vehicle for launch and scramjet technology so that cost of launching may be bought down to just 10% of current cost. India also carried multiple orbit launch in one mission and 20 satellites launch in one mission. Now they target 83 satellites launch in one mission. India is working on reusable space shuttle to minimize the cost. ISRO with its tiny budget compared to Chinese space agency or NASA is placed in a very respectable position now. It is because of frugal engineering and innovations of Indians. India beat china with Innovation.

In the area of defense, while china was focusing on the increasing the range of her missiles, India focused on low weight and accuracy. The focus of India was such that they should be able to target enemy positions with conventional warheads. This requires a phenomenal accuracy. Today Indian long range missiles are such accurate that they can be used to target enemy position with single digit accuracy. Indian K4 missile is said to have almost zero error. When china’s SLBM JL2 is said to have 7700 KM range with 700 KG pay load, India’s K4 deliver 2 tons at 4000 KM with almost Zero error. This gave India a power to demolish enemy infrastructure with conventional warhead without using a nuclear bomb. This is a big strategic advantage.

Similarly, India worked on Brhmos missile to make them highly accurate and made them to dive steeply on the target. This made them deadliest of missile which can identify and target enemy position in hidden area behind mountains. This is an Indian innovation which made it possible to use the missile in non-traditional areas where the missiles cannot be use. This also made it deadliest of anti-ship missile virtually impossible to intercept with any present missile defense system existing in the world. When India declared that they will position this on India china border in Arunachala Pradesh, China rightly got annoyed and said that it is more than the security needs of India.

To protect the ships, India took same approach. India with Israel made MR SAM missile. This missile protect indian ships from Hundred KM to half of a KM. China on its Type 52D uses multi layer defense system of long range, medium range missiles but still they are unable to offer the protection which MRSAM provides. All Chinese systems put to gather are not as effective against sea skimming missile as single MRSAM. This is the power of Indian innovation and frugal engineering. .

In nuclear energy when whole world was focusing on making high speed centrifuge to purify uranium to weapon grade or reactor grade, India focused on research of game changing fast breeder technology where the high purity of fuel is not required. You can use relatively less pure fuel and still can achieve a very high burn ratio. The beauty of this technology is that it may generate more fuel than it consume. . Today india can transform her huge thorium reserve into fuel with this technology. India also designed a highly safe passive safety system for her nuclear power plant which will work automatically in the condition of accident to curtail damage. India made maintenance of Rajasthan atomic power station with same frugal engineering by making bamboo semi-automatic robots and made the plant operational once again at a fraction of cost (Less than 5%) which Canada had offered to do maintenance. Today that plant is generating electricity at a cost less than a rupee per unit.

China not only has her hegemonic design in strategic area but also social and political area. India and only india is capable of countering china all these areas. I will discuss about countering china in other areas on some other day.

-Hari Prasad.
No one denies that India has made breakthroughs in several industries and scientific fields, but must you turn it into a prick-measuring contest with China? Many of your statements vary from implausible to outright untrue.

You can have your own opinion, but not your own facts.
 

HariPrasad-1

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No one denies that India has made breakthroughs in several industries and scientific fields, but must you turn it into a prick-measuring contest with China? Many of your statements vary from implausible to outright untrue.

You can have your own opinion, but not your own facts.
Please discuss those outright untrue statements.
 

J20!

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Please discuss those outright untrue statements.
I complemented them and wrote that you guys can enjoy that for some time until our 138 exa flop computer come in 2017
Untrue. Don't even have to elaborate. A 138 exaflop supercomputer wont exist for a long time, let alone in a year.

When china’s SLBM JL2 is said to have 7700 KM range with 700 KG pay load, India’s K4 deliver 2 tons at 4000 KM with almost Zero error.
Where's your source for this? And where did you get the 700KG and 2000KG figures from.

This also made it deadliest of anti-ship missile virtually impossible to intercept with any present missile defense system existing in the world.
Nationalistic nonsense. Brahmos only sea skims at its terminal stage, before that it flies at high altitude and could be intercepted by any long-range SAM system capable of intercepting at 100km+. Aster 30, SM6, HHQ9 etc.

The Onyx has a longer range that Brahmos, but I've never heard any Russian manufacturers claim it is "impossible to intercept". No cruise missile is impossible to intercept.

China on its Type 52D uses multi layer defense system of long range, medium range missiles but still they are unable to offer the protection which MRSAM provides. All Chinese systems put to gather are not as effective against sea skimming missile as single MRSAM.
More nationalistic nonsense that ignores basic physics.

Long range SAM's eg, HHQ9 on Type 052D are designed to intercept aircraft before they launch cruise missiles or before missiles enter their sea skimming flight paths because of their long range ie 120km+. MR SAM's can then intercept cruise missiles at closer ranges when they're flying at low altitude. CIWS missile, such as the FL3000(export designation) on the Type 052D are used as a last resort and launched en mass to intercept cruise missiles that may have broken through the Long Range and Medium range missile cordon.

To suggest that 1 MR SAM ie barak 8, with an operational range of 70km/ 43.5miles can do the jobs of all three classes of missile defies logic. If that where the case, IAI wouldn't be developing a ER version of said missile, and Barak 1 would be useless.

The US, French and Royal Navy all have Long Range, Medium Range and Short range missiles on their Air Defence destroyers. Its not a fashion trend btw, it the best possible way to defend against the myriad of cruise missile threats out there.

You're playing fast n loose with basic facts.
 

Ravinath

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I think it is not possible for India to match China alone. Only if India team up with other country, maybe some South East Asia country that China previously have problem with like Vietnam or Phillipines, does India have chance of defeating China in conflict.
 

no smoking

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I think it is not possible for India to match China alone. Only if India team up with other country, maybe some South East Asia country that China previously have problem with like Vietnam or Phillipines, does India have chance of defeating China in conflict.
Not a chance.

Before Indian navy is strong enough to defeat PLAN in South China Sea, no one will team up with you.
 

I am otm shank

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The best way to counter chinese might is to become close partners of Japan, Vietnam, south Korea and the Philippines. first becoming a strong economic partner , as a buyer from Japan and south Korea and seller to Phillipines and Vietnam . Then when they realise India as a great and uncompromising market for their goods or one that will provide them with essential goods they will be more willing to protect it with military alliances to keep an expansionist power like China in check.

A big factor is America's shift to Asia will mean opportunities for India and if America accepts India in the order of Asian security I think all the aforementioned countries will be more willing to engage india. Australia will be important but will follow America's lead
 

HariPrasad-1

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How about your 2017 ready 132 exaflops supercomputer? Your own government put the launch date in 2020, do you know something your government doesn't know?
When did I claim that it will get ready by 2017?
 

IndianHawk

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Not a chance.

Before Indian navy is strong enough to defeat PLAN in South China Sea, no one will team up with you.
If a conflict arises Indian Navy will prioritize blocking Indian ocean to PLAN then attacking SCS.

If china is cut off from Indian ocean that would criple it's economy more than any military assault could.

There in lies the dilemma of chinese navy.
It will always remain a secondary force in Pacific thanks to America .
In Indian ocean too it can only deploy a small Armada that will not be enough.

If PLAN has to take on Indian army in Indian ocean it will have to deploy almost 75% of its forces leaving all other costs severely depleted.

Thus an alignment between India and a few Nations is more than enough to cripple PLAN.
 

HariPrasad-1

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The best way to counter chinese might is to become close partners of Japan, Vietnam, south Korea and the Philippines. first becoming a strong economic partner , as a buyer from Japan and south Korea and seller to Phillipines and Vietnam . Then when they realise India as a great and uncompromising market for their goods or one that will provide them with essential goods they will be more willing to protect it with military alliances to keep an expansionist power like China in check.

A big factor is America's shift to Asia will mean opportunities for India and if America accepts India in the order of Asian security I think all the aforementioned countries will be more willing to engage india. Australia will be important but will follow America's lead
When we were denied Super computer, we made one much faster than what we had asked for. Just allocate the fund and let our scientist do the rest, When Bhatkar claims that we can do that than we can do that and there is no question about that.
 

HariPrasad-1

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If a conflict arises Indian Navy will prioritize blocking Indian ocean to PLAN then attacking SCS.

If china is cut off from Indian ocean that would criple it's economy more than any military assault could.

There in lies the dilemma of chinese navy.
It will always remain a secondary force in Pacific thanks to America .
In Indian ocean too it can only deploy a small Armada that will not be enough.

If PLAN has to take on Indian army in Indian ocean it will have to deploy almost 75% of its forces leaving all other costs severely depleted.

Thus an alignment between India and a few Nations is more than enough to cripple PLAN.
We need to explore the possibility of some artificial island like china did in SCS near mallaca. We need to put some powerful radar and anti ship missile on land having a range of some 600 to 1000 KM and Brahmos can be an ideal candidate. Once Brahmos Mk2 comes in, it will be a one sided game in favor of Indian navy. We need to increase our inventory on the eastern side of india. recently purchased reconnaissances plane from US can play a a vital role.
 

IndianHawk

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We need to explore the possibility of some artificial island like china did in SCS near mallaca. We need to put some powerful radar and anti ship missile on land having a range of some 600 to 1000 KM and Brahmos can be an ideal candidate. Once Brahmos Mk2 comes in, it will be a one sided game in favor of Indian navy. We need to increase our inventory on the eastern side of india. recently purchased reconnaissances plane from US can play a a vital role.
We are slow!!
We have entire Andamans an Nicobar chain just facing Malacca and Coco Chanel but we are yet to fully militarise it.

On the other hand we will get assumption and agalega island for naval operations .

We need to focus on existing island in the meanwhile as our budget and capacity increases we can build island too.

China will have to shut up about it given their own actions and nobody else opposes us anyway. We can build forts of islands across Indian ocean in next two decades :hmm:
 

HariPrasad-1

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We are slow!!
We have entire Andamans an Nicobar chain just facing Malacca and Coco Chanel but we are yet to fully militarise it.

On the other hand we will get assumption and agalega island for naval operations .

We need to focus on existing island in the meanwhile as our budget and capacity increases we can build island too.

China will have to shut up about it given their own actions and nobody else opposes us anyway. We can build forts of islands across Indian ocean in next two decades :hmm:
Meanwhile Project varsha will also complete.
 

HariPrasad-1

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Oh and thanks to LEMOA .
We get to use naval facilities of Diego Garcia and other bases of US Navy.
:biggrin2:
CHina is reduced to almost nothing in Indian ocean by NAMO diplomacy. NAMO 10/10 in diplomacy.
 

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