Could the Arjun be a good fit for Taiwan???

[tarunraju]

But the fact is a war like that is unlikely to happen, neither US nor China has the intention to get involved in such a war, because it costs too much.

So you can just stop dreaming China's demise caused by a conflict between mainland and Taiwan.

Likewise, China won't get involved in a war with Taiwan, because it will cost too much. And if China was this confident that there would be no US intervention in a China-Taiwan war, China would have captured Taiwan long back.

 

[nimo_cn]

Likewise, China won't get involved in a war with Taiwan, because it will cost too much. And if China was this confident that there would be no US intervention in a China-Taiwan war, China would have captured Taiwan long back.

If you read my post carefully, you will find that i have never said that mainland will take the initiative to wage a war against Taiwan in a foreseeable future unless Taiwan declares independence. Because in that case it is China who breaks the cross-strait balance, and US will definitely intervene. Moreover, US's interference will be strong, China may not be able to win the war. So we will not capture Taiwan forcefully before we think we are ready.

But if Taiwan declares independence, China will have no choice but to resort to war, because that is the only chance we have got, life or death, all depends on that war. If US determines to intervene by force, China will have no hesitation to have a full-scale war with US, we may not have the ability to destroy US as they have to us, but i am pretty sure US will be hurted very badly. US has always been pragmatic, do you think in a scenario like that, US will trade its future for the independnce of Taiwan?

Both US and China know such a war is not in their interests, so both of them will try their best to avoid the break-out of such a war. Even Taiwan doesn't want a war like that, it only means the destruction of Taiwan. If you really get a chance to talk with people from Taiwan, you will know all they care is economy, none of them want to risk a war with mainland caused by their independence.

 

[nimo_cn]

thats what I am Saying. China donot have guts to fight an open war. all they can do is arm their proxies and beat war drums.

That is because we are peace lovers, whereas India are belligerent.

You guys are fond of showing off your military muscles and have the guts to fight more than one open war. Hats off to India for that.

Militarily we are better equipped to defend ourself . We don't plan to be aggressor.
You guys should buck up and improve quality of your military .

You have always been planning to be the aggressor, and you have done that several times. You bullied your weak and small neighbors, that is why they are turning to China for help, so that you can't misbehave any longer.

STOP creating cheap copies and work on something original.

If we are just dealing with India, those copies are more than enough.

 

[SHASH2K2]

That is because we are peace lovers, whereas India are belligerent.

You guys are fond of showing off your military muscles and have the guts to fight more than one open war. Hats off to India for that.




You have always been planning to be the aggressor, and you have done that several times. You bullied your weak and small neighbors, that is why they are turning to China for help, so that you can't misbehave any longer.




If we are just dealing with India, those copies are more than enough.

Chinese are peace lovers .

"Biggest lie of the century."
what I said about you guys earlier was absolutely correct. they lack Guts. They cannot get into fight directly and need pets to do the dirty job for them. If china has strength to attack and kill India then why are they trying to fight proxy war through Pakistan and arming them ?
You will say that its state policy of China and I will again Ask that why is it State policy.

 

[nimo_cn]

Georgia and Taiwan are different. America has extensive commercial interests in Taiwan,

Compared with America's vast commercial interests in mainland, that is just peanuts.

and will go to any lengths to protect its sovereignty,

Taiwan has no sovereignty, America acknowledges Taiwan being integral part of China.

even if it means arming it with nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles that can strike an incoming Chinese invasion force.

Taiwan has tried to develop nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles before, they were stopped by US.

 

[nimo_cn]

Chinese are peace lovers .

"Biggest lie of the century."
what I said about you guys earlier was absolutely correct. they lack Guts. They cannot get into fight directly and need pets to do the dirty job for them. If china has strength to attack and kill India then why are they trying to fight proxy war through Pakistan and arming them ?
You will say that its state policy of China and I will again Ask that why is it State policy.

The war between India and Pakistan has nothing to do with China.
India's intention to destroy Pakistan stops Pakistan to make peace with India and pushs Pakistan to China.
You fail to coexist with a country which used to be a brother of you, you can blame no one else but yourself.

We provide weapons to Pakistan to maintain the balance of that region, so that the weak one has something to protect himslef when the strong one is bullying him.

 

[SHASH2K2]

The war between India and Pakistan has nothing to do with China.
India's intention to destroy Pakistan stops Pakistan to make peace with India and pushs Pakistan to China.
You fail to coexist with a country which used to be a brother of you, you can blame no one else but yourself.

We provide weapons to Pakistan to maintain the balance of that region, so that the weak one has something to protect himslef when the strong one is bullying him.

same logic applies to USA providing arms to Taiwan?
then why all this noise that you guys create.

 

[AkhandBharat]

Taiwan has not sovereignty, America acknowledge Taiwan being integral part of China.

Wrong. U.S. President George W. Bush stated on December 9, 2003 that the United States is opposed to any attempt by either side to unilaterally alter the status quo in the Taiwan Strait. The status quo stays for now.

 

[nimo_cn]

same logic applies to USA providing arms to Taiwan?
then why all this noise that you guys create.

Same logic can not be applied to USA or India providing arms to Taiwan.
You should notice Pakistan is a sovereign country, providing weapons to a sovereign country is recongnized as normal deal between countries. China is not providing weapons to Kashmir.
Let me remind you, China is not the only country is providing weapons to Pakistan. And before China, the main source of Pakistan's assistance was USA.

There are certain rules when dealing with international relationship, one basic rule is to stay out of other country's internal issues.
Taiwan is an integral part of China, even USA admits that! But USA is selling weapons to a insland which itself acknowlodges bieng part of China, that is interfering with our internal issues, we certainly oppose that.

 

[AkhandBharat]

Taiwan is an integral part of China, even USA admits that! But USA is selling weapons to a insland which itself acknowlodges bieng part of China, that is interfering with our internal issues, we certainly oppose that.

US doesn't acknowledge Taiwan as an integral part of PRC. Moreover, the taiwanese themselves don't want to unify with your mainland. If you are such saints, why not grant them independence and let them govern themselves? Get off the high horse already. Your country has been the belligerent in Tibet, Xinjiang, Mongolia, and Taiwan. You had to be arm wrangled to give Mongolia independence, you will lose Xinjiang pretty soon when the ethnic violence erupts again, and you will never be able to get Taiwan to join you until you maintain an evil communist government. Your neighbors abhor you. Vietnam, Thailand, Japan, Korea, everyone.

 

[nimo_cn]

Wrong. U.S. President George W. Bush stated on December 9, 2003 that the United States is opposed to any attempt by either side to unilaterally alter the status quo in the Taiwan Strait. The status quo stays for now.

That doesn't contradict with that i said. USA acknowledge China's sovereignty over Taiwan, but she refuses to give up its influence on Taiwan.

You should understand the Sino-US relationship is a product of compromise( in fact, every bilateral relationship is ). In this case, USA is too powerful for China to push it to compromise more. As a result, US can do what it is doing now, paying lip service to us that Taiwan is part of China while selling weapon to Taiwan.
the status quo in the Taiwan Strait accords to the interest of USA

 

[AkhandBharat]

That doesn't contradict with that i said. USA acknowledge China's sovereignty over Taiwan, but she refuses to give up its influence on Taiwan.

You should understand the Sino-US relationship is a product of compromise( in fact, every bilateral relationship is ). In this case, USA is too powerful for China to push it to compromise more. As a result, US can do what it is doing now, paying lip service to us that Taiwan is part of China while selling weapon to Taiwan.
the status quo in the Taiwan Strait accords to the interest of USA

It contradicts with what you said. Status Quo is not the same as agreeing Chinese sovereignty over Taiwan. US is arming Taiwan, because Taiwan wants to arm itself against the mainland. US is happy to oblige. Like I said, if you are such saints, leave them alone or you might be licking your wounds for a very long time.

 

[nimo_cn]

US doesn't acknowledge Taiwan as an integral part of PRC.

Well, you can read the Joint Communique of the United States of America and the People's Republic of China, which was signed before diplomatic Sino-USA relationship was established and instructed the relationship between China and USA. In that paper USA acknowleged there is one China and Taiwan is part of China.

And it is incontrovertible that Taiwan is part of China, even your country India acknowledges that. If you cannot keep correspondence with your government on this, please refrain from commenting on our sovereignty on Taiwan, because what you say is futile and you are wasting precious bandwidth.

Moreover, the taiwanese themselves don't want to unify with your mainland. If you are such saints, why not grant them independence and let them govern themselves?

Well, Chinese are not saints. We are just normal person who want to protect what belongs to us. Will you grant independence to kashmir?

i will get back to the rest after dinner.

 

[AkhandBharat]

Well, you can read the Joint Communique of the United States of America and the People's Republic of China, which was signed before diplomatic Sino-USA relationship was established and instructed the relationship between China and USA. In that paper USA acknowleged there is one China and Taiwan is part of China.

Can you read? Here's the international position on Taiwan:

The United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, Republic of India, Pakistan and Japan have formally adopted the One China policy, under which the People's Republic of China is theoretically the sole legitimate government of China. However, the United States and Japan acknowledge rather than recognize the PRC position that Taiwan is part of China. In the case of Canada and the UK, bilateral written agreements state that the two respective parties take note of Beijing's position but do not use the word support. The UK government position that "the future of Taiwan be decided peacefully by the peoples of both sides of the Strait" has been stated several times. Despite the PRC claim that the United States opposes Taiwanese independence, the United States takes advantage of the subtle difference between "oppose" and "does not support". In fact, a substantial majority of the statements Washington has made says that it "does not support Taiwan independence" instead of saying that it "opposes" independence. Thus, the US currently does not take a position on the political outcome, except for one explicit condition that there be a peaceful resolution to the differences between the two sides of the Taiwan Strait. All of this ambiguity has resulted in the United States constantly walking on a diplomatic tightrope with regard to cross strait relations.

This clearly shows that the whole world is okay with the status quo and will not accept any belligerence by China over Taiwan. However, if there is a peaceful reconciliation, it will be supported by US. Now, Taiwan itself wants to purchase anti-missile defence systems so the US is happy to oblige because it doesn't violate the US position.

Well, Chinese are not saints. We are just normal person who want to protect what belongs to us. Will you grant independence to kashmir?

Kashmir != Taiwan. Taiwan has its own goverment independent of the PRC. Kashmir is governed by India.

 

[nimo_cn]

Get off the high horse already. Your country has been the belligerent in Tibet, Xinjiang, Mongolia, and Taiwan.

Considering what India has been doing in Kashmir, you are not qualified judge anyone but yourself.

China's sovereignty over Tibet, Xinjiang, Mongolia is recognised by all the countries on earth, including India. And even ROC(Taiwan) agree with us on this.

You had to be arm wrangled to give Mongolia independence, you will lose Xinjiang pretty soon when the ethnic violence erupts again, and you will never be able to get Taiwan to join you until you maintain an evil communist government.

I know that Indians always expect that to happen someday, China being doomed and India becoming the new super star.
It must be very painful to be living in the shadow of China. Despite China has such a bad name, China can always outshine India.

But i am sorry to tell you, that is no gonna happen. On the contrary, beware of the Maoists, they are flooding everywhere in India.

Your neighbors abhor you. Vietnam, Thailand, Japan, Korea, everyone.

I hope India is adored by its neighbors.

 

[AkhandBharat]

Considering what India has been doing in Kashmir, you are not qualified judge anyone but yourself.

India has been doing nothing in Kashmir, except protecting its territory which it rightfully acquired from the King of Kashmir. Communist China is sabotaging and killing millions after millions of ethnic tibetans and Uighurs each day while pushing han chinese to occupy their lands.

China's sovereignty over Tibet, Xinjiang, Mongolia is recognised by all the countries on earth, including India. And even ROC(Taiwan) agree with us on this.

You don't have Mongolia last I checked. They have been freed. Xinjiang and Tibet will be freed by Turks and Indians respectively.

I know that Indians always expect that to happen someday, China being doomed and India becoming the new super star.
It must be very painful to be living in the shadow of China. Despite China has such a bad name, China can always outshine India.

Its not painful at all. Indians are living a great life. Come visit us sometime!

But i am sorry to tell you, that is no gonna happen. On the contrary, beware of the Maoists, they are flooding everywhere in India.

Maoists are nothing compared to the unrest in Xinjiang and Tibet. Solve those two first, then try to invade Taiwan. Do it and then come back. We'll be waiting.

 

[nimo_cn]

Can you read? Here's the international position on Taiwan:

The United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, Republic of India, Pakistan and Japan have formally adopted the One China policy, under which the People's Republic of China is theoretically the sole legitimate government of China. However, the United States and Japan acknowledge rather than recognize the PRC position that Taiwan is part of China. In the case of Canada and the UK, bilateral written agreements state that the two respective parties take note of Beijing's position but do not use the word support. The UK government position that "the future of Taiwan be decided peacefully by the peoples of both sides of the Strait" has been stated several times. Despite the PRC claim that the United States opposes Taiwanese independence, the United States takes advantage of the subtle difference between "oppose" and "does not support". In fact, a substantial majority of the statements Washington has made says that it "does not support Taiwan independence" instead of saying that it "opposes" independence. Thus, the US currently does not take a position on the political outcome, except for one explicit condition that there be a peaceful resolution to the differences between the two sides of the Taiwan Strait. All of this ambiguity has resulted in the United States constantly walking on a diplomatic tightrope with regard to cross strait relations.

All of this only indicates that no country is willing the recognize China's sovereignty over Taiwan, but the fact is all of them do. I am not surprised by their reluctance, are you?

The equivocation we are seeing exposes their intention to revoke what they said when they think the time comes, when China is too weak to stop them from doing that. It is just like when India becomes weak, they will turn you into colony again, that is what they always do.


This clearly shows that the whole world is okay with the status quo and will not accept any belligerence by China over Taiwan.

However, if there is a peaceful reconciliation, it will be supported by US. Now, Taiwan itself wants to purchase anti-missile defence systems so the US is happy to oblige because it doesn't violate the US position.

US will never support that, on the contrary, they will stop that. I just find out you are so naive!

Kashmir != Taiwan. Taiwan has its own goverment independent of the PRC. Kashmir is governed by India.

Right, i forget, it is also claimed by Pakistan!

 

[hit&run]

Blackmail you with WW3? a WW3 means no good to China. Only Indians like you tend to intimidate us with nukes, i remember there is a thread in this forum discussing if India should abandon NFU policy.

It is a well known fact that scared Chinese do warn USA every time that it will lead to wwiii if they ll help Taiwan, Badguy is one example and www is full of same rants by Chinese. However we have seen the trend post wwii that America has made sure that the wwiii will not happen on its every offence (gulf war etc). So offence on main land china will not be an exception.

OT: China is a serial proliferator of Nuclear technology and WMD. Lack of striking range (India) has given Pakistan and China a very long honeymoon ( ! Pakistani says they are male nation) for doing the same. NFU policy has nothing to do anything with this topic. Chinese minimum deterrence and NFU policy can not give you high moral ground over India. USA will strike in detail preemptively when China will discard NFU policy (nuclear capable means nuclear strike target as well). As far as India is concerned we can have all the privileges, the right to discuss or discard NFU cause Chinese nexus has threatened India manifolds (SK, Burma Pakistan el al). Our only salvation to neutralize at least one adversary will rely on preemptive strike (mark my word) if trend remains the same. So our concerns are well justifiable where as Chinese policies are USA specific and well calculated (cowardly) militarily.

The idea of selling a tank denied by your own amy to Taiwan is a joke!

Sorry am i missing some thing?

The link he provided is talking about the best tanks in Asia, no one in that thread mentioned Arjun.

Thanks this is what i was saying

Yeah, after India has more gut than US.

I think i am more meaner blogger than you, i have given the reference of Indian role in Korean war before anyone could suggest us the same^.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Taiwan has it's own flag last time I checked Kashmir dosen't . Taiwan has their own separate government Kashmir dosen't. These 2 things separate an independent nation from a territory. East Turkmenistan and Tibet both had these until China invaded.

 

[AkhandBharat]

All of this only indicates that no country is willing the recognize China's sovereignty over Taiwan, but the fact is all of them do. I am not surprised by their reluctance, are you?

Doodle dum, doodle dee! You keep going round and round, but it doesn't change the fact that Taiwan is an independently governed island which is arming itself rapidly to mitigate any chinese misdaventure and China is helpless.

The equivocation we are seeing exposes their intention to revoke what they said when they think the time comes, when China is too weak to stop them from doing that. It is just like when India becomes weak, they will turn you into colony again, that is what they always do.

Hahaha, India is not the land of rajas and maharajas anymore. Who is going to colonize us? With Pakistan crumbling, its becoming increasingly easy for us to focus on China while you have to support your lackey pet pakistan which will eventually strain you, just like its straining the US.

This clearly shows that the whole world is okay with the status quo and will not accept any belligerence by China over Taiwan.

Thats what I said!

US will never support that, on the contrary, they will stop that. I just find out you are so naive!

US knows that there will be no peaceful reconciliation of Taiwan with PRC until the evil communist government is controlling the mainland. US is betting on the PRC being displaced from its throne.

Right, i forget, it is also claimed by Pakistan!

Like I said, there will not be a Pakistan in the next decade if they continue down this radical path they are following. We will then get back PoK too.