Could Barak-8 be the game changer that IAF needs?

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by blueblood, Aug 23, 2015.

  1. blueblood

    blueblood Senior Member Senior Member

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    Most here are familiar with the Barak-8 program and the importance it holds for the Indian armed forces. So far, four variants have been proposed for service;
    • Naval Barak-8 (70km) system designed for anti-air and anti-ship missile defence both long range as well point defence. This system also comprises of EL/M-2248 MF-STAR AESA radar. As per rumours it could also serve as a point defence ABM.
    • MRSAM(70km) variant for the IAF, designed for air defence and cruise missile defence.
    • A highly mobile shorter range variant (50km) for IA, designed for air defence as well anti-PGM capabilities which could possibly include point defence ABM capabilities (Nasr).
    • An extended range version (150km) called Barak-8ER which in all likelihood will find its way to IN and IAF inventory.
    Now for the real reason this thread is created.

    Barak-8 as an AAM.

    Indian air force is one of the proposed user of KS-172 and R-37. These are the long range missiles that were designed primarily for killing slower, less maneuverable platforms like large transports, refueling tankers, AWACS and other C4ISTAR platforms. But these missiles are practically useless for engaging highly maneuverable fighters because the low g-tolerance of these missile don't allow them to do so.


    By rule of thumb, an AAM needs to pull atleast 4 times more g-force than the target it is engaging, something the aforementioned missiles cannot do.

    According to sources, Rafael and Raytheon are developing a Stunner (David's sling program) based long range BVRAAM leveraging on the key technologies developed for program namely the dual seekers placed in its very unique "dolphin nose" and a triple pulse motor. So my question is what's stopping India from doing the same? Here are few points in favour;

    • Barak-8 is already in service with India as its co-developer.
    • It has an excellent active seeker.
    • It has 2-way datalink.
    • It can be guided by Phalcon or DRDO AEW&CS.
    • It has very high g performance. At 80g, it is twice that of contemporary AIM 120C5, SD-10 etc.
    • At 60 kg, its warhead is five times larger than the one in AIM 120C5.
    • At 4.5 meters and 275 kg weight it is not significantly longer or heavier than contemporary BVRAAMs. At the same time it short enough to be carried internally by FGFA.
    • By rule of thumb, an AAM has 3 times the range when the same missile is fired from the surface. This suggests that Barak-8 as AAM could very well have 200 km+ range.
    • With use of existing technologies, this program could be very economically efficient.
    With Barak-8 as BVRAAM, even lower rung IAF fighters like Tejas or Mirage could kill much superior Flankers from the Eastern side at much longer distances when backed by AWACS. This could be the solution to many of IAF problems like delays in aircraft acquisition, dwindling squadron strength, less reliance on Su-30MKI, more threats neutralized with higher sortie generation.

    @LETHALFORCE , @pmaitra , @bengalraider ,@sob , @Zebra ,@ersakthivel , @bennedose and others....





     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2015
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  3. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

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    My two cents..........

    Diameter of Barak 8 is 21 inch whereas Meteor has 7 inch diameter.
    Meteor has over Mach 4 speed, Barak 8 has Mach 2.
     
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  4. blueblood

    blueblood Senior Member Senior Member

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    Should this diameter be problematic when carried externally? Wing pylons on LCA are cleared for much bigger and heavier payload.

    [​IMG]

    The speed of mach 2 was never confirmed by IAI or DRDO in my opinion, I'd prefer to be corrected on this one. One source posted it and the rest cited it. Kinda like Janes' Bedi on weight of Arjun Mk2 at 55 tons and rest of the media kept citing it. We know how that turned out to be.

    Even if it's true, when fired by aircraft at transonic or supersonic speeds should add additional 1 mach to the said mach 2.
     
  5. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

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    Not happy to reinvent the wheel.

    If we are talking about Israeli BVRAAM, then I prefer I-Derby ER.
     
  6. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    I don't think barak will be the answer for the air force simply because whatever plane we buy to replace the mrca cancellation will probably have a deal for bvraam. But in a naval role it is definitely a game changer.
     
  7. blueblood

    blueblood Senior Member Senior Member

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    @Zebra , @LETHALFORCE

    The point is giving the short legged and mediocre aircraft like Tejas the capability to engage Flanker at a distance where it cannot fight back. Derby ER or even Meteor for that matter is not going to change the fact that a twin engined Flanker with massive internal fuel and a superior radar will choose its playing field, not the otherway around. A 200km+ range missile can seriosly dent its advantages, turning the tide in favour of IAF as numbers are clearly on the enemy's side.
     
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  8. Bheeshma

    Bheeshma Regular Member

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    Who said Teas is mediocre? Based on what? RCS? Stealth, Composites?
     
  9. blueblood

    blueblood Senior Member Senior Member

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    Is it a Chota F-22 which allies adore and enemies fear?

    It is a cost effective, single engine light weight 4th gen meant to replace Mig-21 in numbers. You get what you pay for. At $30 mil a pop, it is not a bad deal but lets not fool ourselves into thinking it is anything more in its current form.
     

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