Converting BrahMos into UAV!

[Godless-Kafir]

Here we want explore the possibility of converting the supersonic Brahmos Ram jet into an delta winged UAV which can penetrate deep into enemy territory and spy on targets or attack.

How difficult would it be to add wings to Brahmos and make it an reusable vehicle? What are the obstacles in achieving this. Discuss.

 

[Tshering22]

Nice idea man but I don't think it is viable. The propulsion of a missile that too BrahMos specially, is very different from that of a UAV, even when considering speed. Ramjet engines only kick in once supersonic speeds are attained. UAVs/UCAVs on the other hand have turbofan engines similar to jet fighters but smaller and with lesser power.

Besides, BrahMos will be too fast to actually record something. Mach 2.8 in 4-6 seconds is not exactly the speed in which it can do something useful except maybe become like IAI Harop and do a Kamikaze dive bomb to destroy the target.

 

[SHASH2K2]

And also a normal UAV will be much much cheaper than a Brahmos with capacity to fly for longer duration. Brahmos at best will be a suicide drone if somehow modified and cannot be used twice.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Nice idea man but I don't think it is viable. The propulsion of a missile that too BrahMos specially, is very different from that of a UAV, even when considering speed. Ramjet engines only kick in once supersonic speeds are attained. UAVs/UCAVs on the other hand have turbofan engines similar to jet fighters but smaller and with lesser power.

Besides, BrahMos will be too fast to actually record something. Mach 2.8 in 4-6 seconds is not exactly the speed in which it can do something useful except maybe become like IAI Harop and do a Kamikaze dive bomb to destroy the target.

Actually what i was think was in terms of an hypersonic stealth UAV which is launched by booster just like Brahmos and could attack or aid as cover for slower UAVs in case of emergency. They could carry AoAs or ground attack weapons or at worse case as suicide bombers against Aircraft's or Targets.

A twin engined delta winged Brahmos UAV will be undetectable and untouchable as far as speed is concerned and since it lags any moving parts like engine blades it would be invisible towards Doppler radars.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

why use an expensive ramjet or scramjet engine on an UAV??Especially if the main purpose surveillance??

 

[Godless-Kafir]

And also a normal UAV will be much much cheaper than a Brahmos with capacity to fly for longer duration. Brahmos at best will be a suicide drone if somehow modified and cannot be used twice.

Shash with addition of wings it will be able to carry more fuel and hence increase its distance. It does not need to be an ordinary UAV it can be an deep penetration drone which hits predestined targets with AoAs or Laser bombs. Not to mention APJ.Kalam envisioned this idea of an reusable missile quite some time back.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

why use an expensive ramjet or scramjet engine on an UAV??Especially if the main purpose surveillance??

LT imagine there is an threat coming in to attack an lone Su-30 or an Air Base and the nearest Air Support in punjab will take quite some time to get of the ground and join the fun, mean while an booster aided UAV launched at notice comes screeching in at Mach-3 armed with 1 or 2 AoAs and guided by the Radar of Su-30Mki or ground support would be an instant deterrence, while it fires the missiles and makes the invaders to take counter measures and destroy or slow them the manned Aircraft's can get prepared and follow. speed has its uses.

 

[SHASH2K2]

Shash with addition of wings it will be able to carry more fuel and hence increase its distance. It does not need to be an ordinary UAV it can be an deep penetration drone which hits predestined targets with AoAs or Laser bombs. Not to mention APJ.Kalam envisioned this idea of an reusable missile quite some time back.

Any guess about how many hours something with that much of speed and weight will be able to float in air. It will be much more costlier to use ramjet or scramjet engine. I This what you want can be achived by 6th generation planes. they are stealthy and will have capacity to stay in air for longer duration and will be lethal as well. trying to modify something like brahmos will be waste of time as well as money. We need something with traditional engines.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

LT imagine there is an threat coming in to attack an lone Su-30 or an Air Base and the nearest Air Support in punjab will take quite some time to get of the ground and join the fun, mean while an booster aided UAV launched at notice comes screeching in at Mach-3 armed with 1 or 2 AoAs and guided by the Radar of Su-30Mki or ground support would be an instant deterrence, while it fires the missiles and makes the invaders to take counter measures and destroy or slow them the manned Aircraft's can get prepared and follow. speed has its uses.

Yes but we have something that already does this-AIR LAUNCHED BRAHMOS

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Any guess about how many hours something with that much of speed and weight will be able to float in air. It will be much more costlier to use ramjet or scramjet engine. I This what you want can be achived by 6th generation planes. they are stealthy and will have capacity to stay in air for longer duration and will be lethal as well. trying to modify something like brahmos will be waste of time as well as money. We need something with traditional engines.

It wont take an time since it is launched with boosters like the Missile and this is a go between the manned aircraft's, SAMs and UAVs.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Yes but we have something that already does this-AIR LAUNCHED BRAHMOS

Air launched Brahmos is for ground targets or ships, it can not engage AOA or neither are those expensive missiles reusable. For a poor country like India reusable would mean a lot. They also can not be used as support.

Moreover Air Launched Brahmos is still not ready and when i see the size of an Brahmos i wonder how they can fit on a Su-30MKI becoz its much bigger than the Su-30s.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Air launched Brahmos is for ground targets or ships, it can not engage AOA or neither are those expensive missiles reusable. For a poor country like India reusable would mean a lot. They also can not be used as support.

Moreover Air Launched Brahmos is still not ready and when i see the size of an Brahmos i wonder how they can fit on a Su-30MKI becoz its much bigger than the Su-30s.

cost of Brahmos is 3 million dollars you can probably make 20-50 or more UAV for that price even if used for suicide missions it would be a lot cheaper than Brahmos also NIRBHAY UAV is in development which may be mass produced at much lower cost in the future.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

cost of Brahmos is 3 million dollars you can probably make 20-50 or more UAV for that price even if used for suicide missions it would be a lot cheaper than Brahmos also NIRBHAY UAV is in development which may be mass produced at much lower cost in the future.

Why is there an deliberate attempt to miss-understand?! It is not a suicide UAV it should be used for some sort of Rapid Action or support! I am surprised to know an Mach-3 drone with AoA missiles wont be of any use! Nirbhay is not an UAV its an sub-sonic cruise missile and it is meant to strike and kill and not return. Its quite different from an recoverable UAV as envisioned by APJK.

Nirbhay

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Why is there an deliberate attempt to miss-understand?! It is not a suicide UAV it should be used for some sort of Rapid Action or support! I am surprised to know an Mach-3 drone with AoA missiles wont be of any use! Nirbhay is not an UAV its an sub-sonic cruise missile and it is meant to strike and kill and not return. Its quite different from an recoverable UAV as envisioned by APJK.

Nirbhay

http://trishulgroup.blogspot.com/2008/11/nirbhay-uav-detailed.html
Nirbhay UAV Detailed

GK 2 questions:
1)why do we need a high speed drone to fire missiles when any drone can do the same.Any drone used to fire the missile will have to stop or slow down to fire the missile.

2)what missile would be fired??

 

[SHASH2K2]

It wont take an time since it is launched with boosters like the Missile and this is a go between the manned aircraft's, SAMs and UAVs.

I think I didnt explained it properly . I meant to say that how many minutes it will be able to stay afloat . an UAV flying at speed of Mach 2-3 will not be a light one . If you are suggesting modifying Brahmos with a Fin it will be too heavy and costly and it will not be able to stay in air due to high rate of comparison. also creating navigation control and takeoff and landing gears for a supersonic UAV will be worst nightmare for any designer.

my 2 cents .

 

[Godless-Kafir]

http://trishulgroup.blogspot.com/2008/11/nirbhay-uav-detailed.html
Nirbhay UAV Detailed

GK 2 questions:
1)why do we need a high speed drone to fire missiles when any drone can do the same.Any drone used to fire the missile will have to stop or slow down to fire the missile.

2)what missile would be fired??

LT again the Nirbhay is an "sub-sonic" cruse missile that has an turbo-jet engine which has blades and visible to Doppler radars. Nirbhay can not be used as air-support or can it be used for deep penetration.

Why is it needed? I already told you in case of first strike like the one Israel did with Arab neighbors destroying their force on land and not giving adequate time for the pilots to get off. Hence an booster launched UAV will buy a lot of time and distract the enemy before the Siren is sounded and jets are scrambled, This could be controled either on ground or by AWACS. Also not to mention if fighters stranded inside the enemy airspace and out of missiles will be deligited to have some quick response support.

It can carry two Astra missiles or some small AoA missiles internally!

Your imagination is the limit of such things.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

I think I didnt explained it properly . I meant to say that how many minutes it will be able to stay afloat . an UAV flying at speed of Mach 2-3 will not be a light one . If you are suggesting modifying Brahmos with a Fin it will be too heavy and costly and it will not be able to stay in air due to high rate of comparison. also creating navigation control and takeoff and landing gears for a supersonic UAV will be worst nightmare for any designer.

my 2 cents .

Shash your two cents are not good enough!

I think it can be loosely based on the SR-71 Black Bird, since it has an Delta wing it can typically carry more fuel because of larger wing area. Also because it is an Air-Superiority and Support Drone it will only have to reach the target and get back, it does not need to loiter like other UAVS which are for reconnaissance. This is an task specific UAV.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

LT again the Nirbhay is an "sub-sonic" cruse missile that has an turbo-jet engine which has blades and visible to Doppler radars. Nirbhay can not be used as air-support or can it be used for deep penetration.

Why is it needed? I already told you in case of first strike like the one Israel did with Arab neighbors destroying their force on land and not giving adequate time for the pilots to get off. Hence an booster launched UAV will buy a lot of time and distract the enemy before the Siren is sounded and jets are scrambled, This could be controled either on ground or by AWACS. Also not to mention if fighters stranded inside the enemy airspace and out of missiles will be deligited to have some quick response support.

It can carry two Astra missiles or some small AoA missiles internally!

Your imagination is the limit of such things.

This interesting but same results can be achieved thru a salvo of Brahmos(3-4 misiles) or even subsonic cruise missiles. Astra is an air to air missile which may not be suited for this role?? The concept is interesting but it can be done cheaper without using brahmos, even more effective maybe a salvo of cruise missile(of your choice) coordinated with a suicide UAV strike.

 

[EagleOne]

nice idea
this will be costly affair & developing a airframe for that speed ( unmanned version) will be difficult
controlling it at that speed for droping bombs -e will be a problem.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

This interesting but same results can be achieved thru a salvo of Brahmos(3-4 misiles) or even subsonic cruise missiles. Astra is an air to air missile which may not be suited for this role?? The concept is interesting but it can be done cheaper without using brahmos, even more effective maybe a salvo of cruise missile(of your choice) coordinated with a suicide UAV strike.

Could you explain how this can avert an incoming first strike from multiple fighter aircrafts, like in the case of the 6day war?