Contrasting: Gotra, Varna, and Caste

[Screambowl]

If you go for detailed definition, kula and jathi are different terms.
I consider our south Indian versions as reliable sources. North got corrupted due to various invasions and what not.

well its a sanskrit word , corrupt or not corrupt. Sanskrit remains as it is.

 

[Ancient Indian]

well its a sanskrit word , corrupt or not corrupt. Sanskrit remains as it is.

In south, people who are form same kula, live in their own block in the village. Each kula has their own block. All these blocks forms a proper village.
We don't call people from different block as some other jathi. Jathi is used to describe other tribes, like people who are from tribal areas and other relatively different types of people from our society.

Bro, our discussion is not simulating like our last one.

 

[A chauhan]

Bump!

Today I heard a Brahman boasting about his caste and abusing other castes. I wanted to slap him hard and ask that at which place in Veds caste has been mentioned and that you are not Brahman but a Vaishya since you are a Kirana shopkeeper.

But sigh !

Since I am no expert in religious studies, can some one shed some light on this notion that "caste is fake, there are no castes in Hinduism"

@Bhadra
@Haldiram
@Indx TechStyle
@hit&run
@All

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Mohan Bhagwat we could have finished caste system on the basis of veda.

Caste system and all is a thing of past. Young generation knows they are means for political use. And your work determines who you are simple.
West also had racism against black and class system.

Meanwhile shia and Sunni are butchering each other.

 

[Sourav Kumar]

Bump!

Today I heard a Brahman boasting about his caste and abusing other castes. I wanted to slap him hard and ask that at which place in Veds caste has been mentioned and that you are not Brahman but a Vaishya since you are a Kirana shopkeeper.

But sigh !

Since I am no expert in religious studies, can some one shed some light on this notion that "caste is fake, there are no castes in Hinduism"

@Bhadra
@Haldiram
@Indx TechStyle
@hit&run
@All

Let us remove the word "caste" from the discussion for the time being.

Varnashram pratha (ie divison of society in to Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya, Shudra ) was there in Hinduism/ Sanatan dharma. This was supposed not to be hereditary but based on qualities of an individual. This system got corrupted during the time of Mahabharat itself, otherwise Karna must have been elevated to Kshatria varna by the System of those days. So from that time till today, the varna pratha became hereditary in India, so in practice, varnashram partha no longer exists in India.

The kirana shop keeper is a vaishya according to the original varnashram and the software engineer is a shudra

But the kirana shop keeper still claims that he is brahmin and the so called lower-varna people enjoy reservation benefits. It takes two hands to make a clap after all

The original varna turned into fixed hereditary dead varna is called "caste" in India.
corrupted varna = caste

 

[A chauhan]

Let us remove the word "caste" from the discussion for the time being.

Varnashram pratha (ie divison of society in to Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya, Shudra ) was there in Hinduism/ Sanatan dharma. This was supposed not to be hereditary but based on qualities of an individual. This system got corrupted during the time of Mahabharat itself, otherwise Karna must have been elevated to Kshatria varna by the System of those days. So from that time till today, the varna pratha became hereditary in India, so in practice, varnashram partha no longer exists in India.

The kirana shop keeper is a vaishya according to the original varnashram and the software engineer is a shudra

But the kirana shop keeper still claims that he is brahmin and the so called lower-varna people enjoy reservation benefits. It takes two hands to make a clap after all

The original varna turned into fixed hereditary dead varna is called "caste" in India.
corrupted varna = caste

Yeah, right.

Jati (caste) = community which is totally different from Varna. It seems that people have created groups which they call their Jati. And on its basis they compare and consider themselves higher than other groups.

 

[Sourav Kumar]

Yeah, right.

Jati (caste) = community which is totally different from Varna.

"Jati" is not totally different from "corrupted varna". There is a relationship (or mapping) between them. In your example, when the kirana shopkeeper says that he is a Brhamin (ie his varna is Brahmin), he means that his forefathers were once upon a time Real Brahmins

It seems that people have created groups which they call their Jati. And on its basis they compare and consider themselves higher than other groups.

People did not create. People corrupted and degraded an existing system. The higher/ lower concepts were there in original varnashram too. Even though everyone was supposed to be respected for what he was doing, Brahmins were considered upper than Kshatriyas in social honor/ status those days.

Now since "jati" still maps to "corrupted varna", the upper/ lower concepts come down from there as well