Conspiracy to separate Sikhism from Hinduism

[Hiranyaksha]

1) What is referendum 2020 ?
2) Aren't Sikhs different from Hindus ?

 

[Project Dharma]

1) What is referendum 2020 ?
2) Aren't Sikhs different from Hindus ?

It is complicated. Sikhism has a Nirguna (without form) roop and a Sarguna roop. The reform movement of 1900 took out everything that is Sarguna. And the 1984 episode alienated a bunch of Sikhs. Posters like @prohumanity mean well and maybe even speak the truth historically speaking but "Sikhs are Hindus" creates a lot of tension in the community who have always been afraid of being assimilated into mainstream Hinduism and loosing their identity. The Nirguna roop of Sikhi as introduced by Singh Sabha reform and practiced by most Sikhs in Punjab is different from Hinduism as practiced by people all over India. Please go back and read the wall of text I posted a few posts back to get historical context if interested.

 

[Project Dharma]

just y'day a bunch of Sikhs here were beaten up for carrying beef & taking cattle allegedly for slaughter, by self-styled Rakshaks.

That is beyond retarded, which Sikh eats beef. Not to mention that most Orthodox Sikhs are vegetarian!

 

[AnantS]

That is beyond retarded, which Sikh eats beef. Not to mention that most Orthodox Sikhs are vegetarian!

i think it was a sarcastic post

 

[sukhish]

i think it was a sarcastic post

eating beef is a big SIN. going to beef eating countries for jobs and asking/begging them for defense technology is NOT. nice try

 

[Project Dharma]

eating beef is a big SIN. going to beef eating countries for jobs and asking/begging them for defense technology is NOT. nice try

Nice job pooping in the middle of the thread without reading the post you were quoting.

 

[dhananjay1]

It's fun reading "official" english translation of Guru Granth with with original text. All Ram, Govind, Har are replaced by Lord, God and Waheguru.

 

[Project Dharma]

It's fun reading "official" english translation of Guru Granth with with original text. All Ram, Govind, Har are replaced by Lord, God and Waheguru.

Let's be intellectually honest for the sake of the thread.

Look at the first para from Guru Nanak Dev Ji's bani

Then Guru ji says:

1) There is no official English translation. Gurbani is in Gurmukhi. Translation loses meaning from native languages. That is a fact. Somebody who seeks to understand will learn Gurmukhi.

2) Yes Ram is translated as Lord. Again, it is obviously not referring to Shri Ram Chandra Ji as they have been said to "gaiyo" just a few lines above. What should it be translated to?

Baba Nanak's Sikhism is the Nirguna or formless roop of Sikhism and has no form which is enshrined in the Mool Mantra.

 

[Ancient Indian]

Let's be intellectually honest for the sake of the thread.

Look at the first para from Guru Nanak Dev Ji's bani
View attachment 17076

Then Guru ji says:

View attachment 17077

1) There is no official English translation. Gurbani is in Gurmukhi. Translation loses meaning from native languages. That is a fact. Somebody who seeks to understand will learn Gurmukhi.

2) Yes Ram is translated as Lord. Again, it is obviously not referring to Shri Ram Chandra Ji as they have been said to "gaiyo" just a few lines above. What should it be translated to?

Baba Nanak's Sikhism is the Nirguna or formless roop of Sikhism and has no form which is enshrined in the Mool Mantra.

View attachment 17078

That's how they tamper religious texts.

In hinduism also, we have nirguna Brahman. But it is rarely branches out from its Hindu origin. Instead it gets its place in hindu spiritual hierarchy.

Not big problem though. It was one of the hit jobs of British, a failed one at that.

 

[Project Dharma]

That's how they tamper religious texts.

In hinduism also, we have nirguna Brahman. But it is rarely branches out from its Hindu origin. Instead it gets its place in hindu spiritual hierarchy.

Not big problem though. It was one of the hit jobs of British, a failed one at that.

Yes I understand, that is why Sikhism is a Dharmic religion. However, how does Brahman translate to English? Would you object to a Hindu calling Brahman "Lord"? Isn't that a double standard for Sikhs then?

The real hit job is not on part of the British but by Sikhs themselves who were worried that Sikhism would be assimilated into Hinduism. They removed Shri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji from Gurdwaras (which is Sarguna form) but Guru Granth Sahib Ji is mostly focused on the Nirguna form of Sikhism and is intact from Guru Ji's times.

 

[Willy2]

Immigrant "sikh"....Mostly punjabis..so I think they became victim of ISI sleeper cell exist as pakistani immigrant who themselves are punjabi(Also some might loss relative sin 1984 ..but due to those pakis..jump in "Hindu-India" trap.. one have ....This is the story of Canada and UK too...probably

 

[Project Dharma]

Immigrant "sikh"....Mostly punjabis..so I think they became victim of ISI sleeper cell exist as pakistani immigrant who themselves are punjabi(Also some might loss relative sin 1984 ..but due to those pakis..jump in "Hindu-India" trap.. one have ....This is the story of Canada and UK too...probably

I don't think so. Basically, what happened is that a lot of people filed fake asylum cases in the 80s and migrated over. They can't travel back to India because they gave up Indian citizenship and India won't give them a visa. They are basically stuck in a time warp and haven't been able to move on. The Sikh community here doesn't intermingle with Pakistanis much and looks at them suspiciously as well.

 

[Ancient Indian]

Yes I understand, that is why Sikhism is a Dharmic religion. However, how does Brahman translate to English? Would you object to a Hindu calling Brahman "Lord"? Isn't that a double standard for Sikhs then?

I have no objection to that. I encourage anything as long as it adheres to Dharmaic rules. But here we have to consider one small thing.
'Lord Rama who happens to be God' or 'Almighty God Rama'. Which one is correct one?
Lord Rama represents unique set of gunas. If you dilute his individuality and ignore his life journey, he will be no longer Rama. You will miss the key aspect of it if you do that. The 'How' part. How did Rama became God? Why we call him God? The emphasis on Individuality gives us unique insight into the 'Rama is God' claim. It shows us the path that leads to God(Supreme Brahman)who happens to be Lord of the creation.

The real hit job is not on part of the British but by Sikhs themselves who were worried that Sikhism would be assimilated into Hinduism. They removed Shri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji from Gurdwaras (which is Sarguna form) but Guru Granth Sahib Ji is mostly focused on the Nirguna form of Sikhism and is intact from Guru Ji's times.

If you rename apple as orange, it still tastes as apple. Sikhs need to understand that. You can't ignore your parents. And you can't ignore your roots.

 

[Project Dharma]

I have no objection to that. I encourage anything as long as it adheres to Dharmaic rules. But here we have to consider one small thing.
'Lord Rama who happens to be God' or 'Almighty God Rama'. Which one is correct one?
Lord Rama represents unique set of gunas. If you dilute his individuality and ignore his life journey, he will be no longer Rama. You will miss the key aspect of it if you do that. The 'How' part. How did Rama became God? Why we call him God? The emphasis on Individuality gives us unique insight into the 'Rama is God' claim. It shows us the path that leads to God(Supreme Brahman)who happens to be Lord of the creation.

If you rename apple as orange, it still tastes as apple. Sikhs need to understand that. You can't ignore your parents. And you can't ignore your roots.

That is going into theology, my friend. I would argue that the Nirguna form of Sikhi is a complete spiritual experience in itself without studying the story of Shri Ram. Any Sikh who wishes to go deeper into the religion has all the wealth of Hindu scriptures available to them as well.

I do understand what you are saying and myself don't agree with the reform that the Singh Sabha movement did as I identify more with Buddha Dal Sikhi which includes Dasam Granth worship in its entirety.

 

[Ancient Indian]

That is going into theology, my friend. I would argue that the Nirguna form of Sikhi is a complete spiritual experience in itself without studying the story of Shri Ram. Any Sikh who wishes to go deeper into the religion has all the wealth of Hindu scriptures available to them as well.

Every path is complete as long as the main goal is Moksha.

Yes, you can get complete spiritual experience from worshipping formless God. But what use Rama has then?
You can discard it and set up this nirguna sect by branching out from main one. That's how plurality comes into play. We have many sects here. No need to promote one sect at the cost of another sect.

Hmm. For Dharmic people, ved is the ultimate guide. Vedanta is ultimate source of spiritual knowledge. If we deviate from it, we may go into extinction. That's how the world works.

Vedanta and Ved are not related theology at all. They are different branch of science in a way. Like how you study gravity and electricity, you can also study brahman and other spiritual stuff.

Sikhs and Hindus belong to same family. I don't like them to lose our rich heritage.

 

[Project Dharma]

promote one sect at the cost of another sect.

I hate the attitude that some Sikhs have towards Hinduism as well. Unfortunately, you have to take into account the circumstances surrounding the Singh Sabha movement. Ranjit Singh's empire had fallen to the British. A large number of Sikhs were abandoning the identity of Khalsa and people were predicting the demise of Sikhism in a few years. Therefore, the reformers drew a hard line between Sikhism and Hinduism. Funny that you talked about preserving our rich heritage, this was exactly the goal of the movement!

For Dharmic people, ved is the ultimate guide.

Then you are not going to like this line from Guru Gobind Singh Ji's bani (reference Chaupai Sahib ji)

"O God ! Since I have held your feet, none other has entered my vision; Ram, Rahim, Puranas, Quran and many others recite, but I don't believe in even one. The Simritis, Shastras and Vedas describe many mysteries, but I don't recognise even one of them; O Sword-wielder God! All this I write, with your blessings, is not what I know but what you have shown me."

Chaupai Sahib was written at the end of the Dasam Granth Sahib Ji in which Guru Gobind Singh Ji talks about tales of Hindu Gods and Goddesses most notably Chandi. Looks like Guru Sahiban came to the conclusion that studying the Vedas was not necessary for salvation as well!

Sikhs and Hindus belong to same family. I don't like them to lose our rich heritage.

I completely agree bro. Dharma is our shared legacy and disregarding that would be to disrespect all the great martyrs of Sikhism who gave their lives for the cause. Actually, Guru Sahib had during his time commissioned a sect of Sikhs called Nirmale to study Hindu texts so that they could gather knowledge and impart it to Sikhs. Several Sants in Punjab (Naugajja Sant Dalel Singh Ji is one of them) are still part of that panth and preach Dharma to a combined Sikh and Hindu audience.

 

[Willy2]

I think if constitutionally "Sikh" don't separate ..in years it will assimilate within so call "Hinduism"...Because u can express Hinduism as vessel of various sect..where ppl respect every other god...we worship mahabir , and celebrate his jayanti..not only Jains but normal Hindus..."we know jainism is a different religion..but they are Hindus"...I think this is the idea of jainism now....Only constitution forcefully made us different...I never realize if vedas..Gita..Puran all can be our sacred text..why not Granth..Tripitak can't be..it's forceful separation ...
we are not like Abrahamic one...in our "dharma" the important part is gurus path and vanis ...Indian religion is western construct..Buddhism is who follow path of Budhha..jain who follow Mahabir and other tirthankar...and those who follow ancient path ..they are "hindus"...it's british construct....and Leftist academic who control our institution follow it as it will help them to create karl Marxs time Europe..and help them to assume Indian society as european society of 18th century..
The so call extinction of Budhhism in 8th century happens because they try to prove Buddhism is separate from Dharmic values..thats why Adi Sankaracharya demolish them in debate...
From the time of Krishna...it..allow us to chose our path...those who decide to fight against Adharma of Mughal decided to follow path of Sikh Gurus..and become disciple sikh.....Those who think that "upabas" and other type of hardship never bring internal peace which we need to aquire "Mokhsa" ,become Buddhist..
I prefer to call aal ourself "dharmic" ..rather than Sikh..jain...Hindu...we all under threat of destruction...I heard that Punjub under Evangelist eye..NRI Dharmic are more vulnerable to soul vulture...
There are no HINDUISM...no SIKHISM...no BUDDHISM...no JAINISM...Indian land cultivate many great saints who give us their life lesson and give us option to chose between various jewel...stop differentiate us as religion...we are't tribe and gheto of cities taht our identity would be in Crisis if accept other view...we should free to chose within Dharmic rule..with Indian values...and there should be any "Indian religion"...Only dharmic...Christian..Muslim..

 

[Indibomber]

just y'day a bunch of Sikhs here were beaten up for carrying beef & taking cattle allegedly for slaughter, by self-styled Rakshaks.

I can bet this must be a false news. Cow is holy in both dharmik ways.

 

[Project Dharma]

I think if constitutionally "Sikh" don't separate ..in years it will assimilate within so call "Hinduism"...Because u can express Hinduism as vessel of various sect..where ppl respect every other god...we worship mahabir , and celebrate his jayanti..not only Jains but normal Hindus..."we know jainism is a different religion..but they are Hindus"...I think this is the idea of jainism now....Only constitution forcefully made us different...I never realize if vedas..Gita..Puran all can be our sacred text..why not Granth..Tripitak can't be..it's forceful separation ...
we are not like Abrahamic one...in our "dharma" the important part is gurus path and vanis ...Indian religion is western construct..Buddhism is who follow path of Budhha..jain who follow Mahabir and other tirthankar...and those who follow ancient path ..they are "hindus"...it's british construct....and Leftist academic who control our institution follow it as it will help them to create karl Marxs time Europe..and help them to assume Indian society as european society of 18th century..
The so call extinction of Budhhism in 8th century happens because they try to prove Buddhism is separate from Dharmic values..thats why Adi Sankaracharya demolish them in debate...
From the time of Krishna...it..allow us to chose our path...those who decide to fight against Adharma of Mughal decided to follow path of Sikh Gurus..and become disciple sikh.....Those who think that "upabas" and other type of hardship never bring internal peace which we need to aquire "Mokhsa" ,become Buddhist..
I prefer to call aal ourself "dharmic" ..rather than Sikh..jain...Hindu...we all under threat of destruction...I heard that Punjub under Evangelist eye..NRI Dharmic are more vulnerable to soul vulture...
There are no HINDUISM...no SIKHISM...no BUDDHISM...no JAINISM...Indian land cultivate many great saints who give us their life lesson and give us option to chose between various jewel...stop differentiate us as religion...we are't tribe and gheto of cities taht our identity would be in Crisis if accept other view...we should free to chose within Dharmic rule..with Indian values...and there should be any "Indian religion"...Only dharmic...Christian..Muslim..

I don't disagree but sometimes it is better to take what is possible rather than fantasize about the unlikely. Hinduism and modern day post reform Sikhism still have a lot in common. So much so that a large portion of pilgrims in Sikh Gurdwaras are Hindus. We should unite to fight against foreign culture, foreign religion and safeguard our shared heritage.

 

[Suryavanshi]

All dharmic religion should unite again.
Hindu, Sikh, Jain, Bodh all these sects lived in peace until those meleches entered the scene with their Barbaric culture.