Conspiracy to separate Sikhism from Hinduism

Tiger.Hind

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My idea of Unity is as follows:

1. Elephant Massage for Sikh who insults Devas||
2. Elephant Massage for Hindu who insults Gurus||
3. Elephant Massage for One who is not "Hindu" (Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain)

With this 3 Step Plan, we can bring Change & Development to World||

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾ।।ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ।।
 

I am otm shank

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Hindu is just Muslim word for all kafirs in loosely define Indian subcontinent. All contemporary Muslim source called all sikhs as Hindus, because that's what they were for Muslim historians. Hinduism and Sikhism are both anglo-western cultural construct, conjured up in 19th century based on age old christian concept of 'pagan religion'. 'Hindus' are a confused bunch who are defining themselves on an idiotic western concept of religion and they don't even know it. :laugh:
Even pakistani and indian muslims are called hindus in the middle east and in turkey to this day. My pakistani aunts and uncles used to tell me this when I was a kid and to respect my south Asian heritage.

even a mohajir employee told was called a Hindu even when he was conscripted to the pakistani armed forces.
 

Bornubus

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My idea of Unity is as follows:

1. Elephant Massage for Sikh who insults Devas||
2. Elephant Massage for Hindu who insults Gurus||
3. Elephant Massage for One who is not "Hindu" (Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain)

With this 3 Step Plan, we can bring Change & Development to World||

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾ।।ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ।।

Now where did you get the idea that Hindus ever insult the Gurus ?



Gurkha band of Indian Army singing the song Deh Siva Bar Mohe ........

Rajput Regt commanded by a Sikh


03a1770a04facdd1afb71e737b0e9e26.jpg
 
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asingh10

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Hanuman Natak

A chronological history of the Hanuman Natak.

Sharing a numeric construction, the Hanuman Natak or Hanuman's Spectacle is one of the victims of the Singh-Sabha reforms which has survived to the present day. Recited in Nihung, Udasi and Taksal orders/bodies, the work orbits the simian Hanuman's service of his regal lord Ram Chandra. The latter, perceived as being a divine monarch in sub-continental tradition, is ousted from his royal domains and adopts the lifestyle of a warrior-ascetic residing in the wildness with his wife and a younger brother. His antagonist, the saintly monarch, Ravana blinded by lust kidnaps his spouse and imprisons him upon his island fortress of Lanka. Incensed, more by the wounding of his ego than his wife's debasement, Ram Chandra and his brother march towards Lanka. Meeting Hanuman, a Simian warlord, the duo assist the latter's race in executing a coup and eradicating their primary monarch Bali. Subsequently their elected candidate, commands his wards to enrol themselves into Ram Chandra's mediocre army and build a bridge towards Lanka. The subsequent battle which commences forms a titanic portion of the pre-Homeric Ramayana, or the charisma of Ram Chandra. The Hanuman Natak can be taxonomized as being the literary progeny of the latter, solely pinpointing Hanuman's servile actions and spirituality.


Hanuman.


Genesis.

Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha, of Singh-Sabha fame, essayed the fact that certain traditions purported Hanuman himself to have been the primary parent of the Hanuman Natak. After editing his autobiographical sketch, Hanuman is said to have pitched the tablets, upon which he had inscribed the said work, into the ocean in deference to the preliminary Ramayana. When queried as to why, he is said to have replied that he did not desire to demean the charisma of Ram Chandra's temporal sojourn and had thus sacrificed his own legend which threatened to eclipse the Ramayana.


A battle scene from the Ramayana.

Excavation.

In 1055 A.D. during the reign of the monarch Bhoj, the Hanuman Natak is said to have been excavated by agog pearl divers. Presenting it to the imminent poet Damodar Missar, Bhoj had damaged passages restored or re-birthed to revive Hanuman's memoirs. It is essential to acknowledge that this was a proportionately re-mediated and re-done manuscript which attempted to capture the spirit of the original.


A contemporary depiction of Hanuman.

The Mughal Era.

The subsequent period, until 1623-1680 A.D. is not well known to historians although it is plausible that in the aftermath of the rise and fall of many Indic reigns the Hanuman Natak was exposed to many variations. In around 1623-1680 A.D. a young relative of Bhai Gurdass, and one of the emperor Akbar's nine poets, Hirday Ram, attempted to revive the entire manuscript. Having memorised entire passages, Ram commenced his labour during the reign of Jahangir and subsequently succeeded. In a generic tradition of his reign, Jahangir renegaded against Hirday Ram and had him tortured to death. After realizing that he had murdered an innocent individual, the despairing emperor had Ram's Hanuman Natak immortalised. In a parallel tradition to all sub-continental poets, Ram inscribed his own memento to his work, 'in 1680/ 1623 AD, in the Royal Court of Empeor Jahangir. In the pure verses and similies the poet Kavi Ram has composed this work. Krishan Das who has enlightened the generations like a protective lamp. The tale of Ram has become manifest from my intellect in a pure way. Please bless me with devotion, fearlessness, Victory to Ram and his descendants.' (1)


The emperor Akbar.
A literary heirloom.

After Jahangir's demise his successors inherited Hirday Ram's manuscript, although it is not evident whether they perused it or not. Penultimately it reached the hands of Bahadur Shah, heir to the Mughal throne. An artistic individual himself, Shah was mesmerised by the work and treated it with extreme reverence.


It is a surprise as to how the Hanuman Natak survived Bahadur Shah' father's fanatical reforms.

In the hands of the Guru.
After declaring quietude, the Khalsa and the remnants of the Mughal empire initiated a bond of uneasy camaraderie. During this period Bahadur Shah asked Akali-Nihung Guru Gobind Singh Ji to accompany him to the Deccan. The Guru acquiesced, perceiving an opportunity to visit regional congregations of Sikhs. It was on this journey that he (the Shah) gifted the Guru with the Hanuman Natak. The Guru, who possessed a great love for tales of valour and warfare, subsequently had the manuscript dispatched to Kavi's Kanshi Ram and Kankan. Both individuals had honed their quills on the literary whetstone of Anandpur, and sat down to restore an intensive portion of Hirday Ram's Hanuman Natak. It is plausible that the following lines were composed, as a homage to the Guru, by these two individuals and added to the Hanuman Natak: 'the master of the three worlds. The love of my very breath, the infallible, my head is at your feet. The master of firmness, the master of truth, without woman, the master of Shiva and Sankadi who listen to your praises...' (2)


Akali-Nihung Guru Gobind Singh Ji.


Another traditional account purports the Guru to first having been introduced to the Natak during his sojourn at Anandpur, where his primary academic, Bhai Nand Lal, presented him with a mimic of the original manuscript. After essaying the entire work, in it's fourteen chapters, the Guru is said to have commented that any coward who recited this tale with an authentic heart would instantaneously evolve into a valorous warrior. Bhai Nand Lal's mimic however did not possess the entire dialogue between Ram Chandra, and the militant ascetic Parsuram. To rectify this, Amrit Rai a descendant of Hirday Ram prepared a revived version of the missing dialogue, and presented it to the Guru before March 1680 A.D. (3)


Bhai Nand Lal Ji and Akali-Nihung Guru Gobind Singh Ji.


The Dasam Granth.
Aiming to preserve the spirit of Hirday Ram's quill, Akali-Nihung Guru Gobind Singh Ji employed the pseudonym of Ram, and made distinctive references to the Hanuman Natak in his canonical omnibus. An exemplar can be drawn from the Ram-Avatar, 'the tale of how the monarch assisted Indra to secure victory, is narrated in the Hanuman Natak as well as the Guru's own Charitropakhyan.' (4) It is important to acknowledge that despite the latter references, the Guru never incorporated the Natak in his own omnibus.


A watercolour depicting Akali-Nihung Guru Gobind Singh Ji and his entourage.
The Sikh Empire and Beyond.
Distinguishable from the greater body of Hinduism, the Khalsa nevertheless employed the latter system's mythology in order to broadcast it's own views. For many historic Sikhs the Hanuman Natak served as a template for the profound relationship between the Guru and the Sikh. Hanuman served Ram Chandra as a divine deity, the Sikh too was instructed to render the same servility to his spiritual master. Simultaneously the martial arts, depicted in the manuscript, were systematically revived by the Khalsa and employed in battle. In a parallel vein to the Guru's court, the work was recited during the morning and the evening. Under the aegis of the Udasi and Nirmala bodies, educational institutes were born which readily taught the Hanuman Natak as an essential text. The work had such a profound influence over Punjab, that even the respected historian Ratan Singh Bhangu constructed his own mimic detailing his genealogical heritage. It was the latter which assisted Giani Gurditt Singh in establishing a full profile of Bhangu.


Scriptural recitations during the Sikh empire.


Post-Empire.
The Singh-Sabha ultimately identified the work as being highly antagonistic to the Khalsa ethos and attempted to remove it from the greater Sikh psyche. It succeeded up to a great extent but failed to affect the Nihungs, Udasis and the Damdami Taksal with it's antagonistic afflictions.
Puritanical Bodies and the Hanuman Natak.

Amongst the Nihungs, Udasis and Taksal an equivocal atmosphere of acceptance exists regarding sub-continental figures. As envisioned by many scholars the Khalsa's acceptance of certain Hindu deities does not ensure deification, as many pro-nationalistic and anti-nationalistic camps argue. The latter are only metaphorical devices employed to disseminate profound spiritual concepts. The Hanuman Natak, if perceived from the latter perspective, has had an ineffaceable effect on the Khalsa psyche. It depicts the potential relationship between the Guru and the Sikh, whilst educating one is different martial and societal concepts. It is a honorific work, and one which should be preserved for future generations.


http://tisarpanth.blogspot.com/2014/02/hanumans-spectacle_14.html
 

asingh10

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asingh10

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Bhai Gurdas Vaaran

Ram and Ravan
ਰਾਮ ਅਤੇ ਰਾਵਣ



ਰਾਮਚੰਦੁ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਧਰਮਹੁ ਸਾਇਰ ਪਥਰ ਤਰਣਾ ॥
Ram was a spotless person and due to his sense of dharma (responsibility), even the stones floated in ocean.

ਬੁਰਿਆਈਅਹੁ ਰਾਵਣ ਗਇਆ ਕਾਲਾ ਟਿਕਾ ਪਰ ਤ੍ਰਿਅ ਹਰਣਾ ॥
On account of wickedness Ravan went away (was killed) with the stigma of stealing another’s wife.

ਰਾਮਾਇਣੁ ਜੁਗਿ ਜੁਗਿ ਅਟਲੁ ਸੇ ਉਧਰੇ ਜੋ ਆਏ ਸਰਣਾ ॥
Ramayan (the story of Ram) is ever firm (in the mind of people) and whosoever seeks shelter (in it) goes across (the world ocean).

ਜਸ ਅਪਜਸ ਵਿਚਿ ਨਿਡਰ ਡਰਣਾ ॥
Dharma-abiding people earn glory in the world and those who undertake evil adventures get infamy.(18)

To view the shabad click here:
https://searchgurbani.com/bhai_gurdas_vaaran/vaar/31/pauri/18
 

asingh10

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ਦੁਸਹਰੇ ਦੇ ਦਿਨ ਪੂਜਾ ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰਾਂ ਦੀ ਕਰਨ । ਚੰਡੀਪਾਠ ਕੀਤਾ ਰਸਨਾ ਦਾ ਉਚਾਰਨ ।
On the days of Dusshera, worship your weapons. From your mouths you should recite the ballads of Chandi [Chandi Chritars and Chandi Di Vaar].


ਧੂਪ ਦੀਪ, ਪੁਸ਼ਪ, ਬਹੁਤ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੁਗੰਧਿ । ਕੇਸਰ, ਚੰਦਨ, ਚਉਰ ਝੁਲੰਤ ।੩੯੦।
[Worship your weapons by using] lots of Incense, Gee-lamps, flowers and nice fragrances. [Use] Saffron, Sandalwood and a Wisk to wave [above your weapons].


-Kesar Singh Chibber,Bansavalinama pg. 161.

The tradition of celebrating Dusshera continues today in the Sikh tradition followed by most noteably the Budha Dal Nihung Sikhs and Takht Hazur Sahib, who recite Chandi Chritars and Chandi Di Vaar, along with Raam-avatar [a section from Dasam Sri Guru Granth Sahib which deals with the life story of Ram Chandra] and a pothi called Dusshera Mahatam, which is a pothi with various shabads in it dealing with the occasion.
 

Tiger.Hind

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http://www.damdamitaksalitaly.it/Media/Audio/Gurbani Ucharan/SEHAJ PATH SRI DASAM GRANTH SAHIB (BHAI KABAL SINGH JI)/003--Giani.Hardeep.Singh.Hazoor.Sahib--Sri.Dasam.Granth.Sahib.Paath.Introduction.Sri.Dasam.Granth.mp3

Even here at like 1850 Nihang Baba Ji says Guru Sahib said Akal Purakh gave Hukam to create Khalsa so Hindus could defend ourselves||

http://www.damdamitaksalitaly.it/Pages/Audio/Gurbani Ucharan/SEHAJ PATH SRI DASAM GRANTH SAHIB (BHAI KABAL SINGH JI).html

Dohra after Ardas: uth gey safa malech ki kar kooraa paasaar|| danka baaje fateh ka nihklank avtaar||

Durga Ma to Guru Gobind Singh Ji: Jahan Tahan Tum Dharma Bitharou।।Dusht Dokhiyan Pakar Pesharou।।

Guru Sahib Said He came here for: Dharma Chalavan।।Sant Obaran।।Dusht Saban Ko Mool Uparan।।
--
Most of these historical serials, are not accurate||But, I like them though||My parents always watched one on Ashoka, now Shani Dev Ji||They transmit correct values if nothing else, I don't like how SGPC symbol is displayed everywhere as if it was historical||

Aad Chand like this is real Nishan||Chand of Shiv Ji & Khanda of Mata Ji||

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hVCsqVEuxT0/UQIPIQlvydI/AAAAAAAABa0/0fUbpPM9oGU/s1600/aad+chand.jpg

I know, they won't show real Nishan Sahib of Maharaja Ranjit Ji or Hari Singh Nalwa Ji Either||


Jage hindu dharam, Turk band Bhaage||The Hindu Dharma Will Arise, The Turks will be battered & in flight - Guru Gobind Singh Ji of SodhVansh - Uggardanti Sahib||

Only prob w/ this indology guy, is he does not use Singh when saying Name of Baba Banda Singh Ji||
Baba Banda Singh Ji Jamwal Shaheed Zindabaad||
Bhai Bhagat Singh Sandhu Shaheed Zindabaad||

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾ।।ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ।।
 

Tiger.Hind

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Sikhs & Hindus believe in equality||All must bow to the ChakarVartin or die||

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾ।।ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ।।
 

vinuzap

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in india hindu and sikh have roti and beti ka rishta, they have there religios places in indian subcontinent not arabia

are ahmadiyas considered muslim ?
what is the status of mohajir, baloch, pashtuns or have you managed to integrate bengalis, indians surely did
 

Tiger.Hind

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http://www.hindunet.org/home/sikh/rverma/goel1.html

It is this sharing of a common spirituality which has led many Hindus to worship at Sikh Gurudwaras as if they were their own temples. Hindus in the Punjab regard the Adi Granth as the sixth Veda, in direct succession to the Rik, the Sama, the Yajus, the Atharva and the Mahabharata. A Hindu does not have to be a Sikh in order to do homage to the Adi Granth and participate in Sikh religious rites. Similarly, till recently Sikhs visited temples of various other Hindu sects, went to Hindu places of Pilgrimage and cherished the cow together with many other symbols of Hinduism. Religion has never been a cause of conflict between Sikh and non-Sikh Hindus.

Sikh History Guru Nanak's message came like a breath of fresh breeze to Hindus in the Punjab who had been lying prostrate under Muslim oppression for well over five centuries. They flocked to the feet of the Sikh Gurus and many of them became initiated in the Sikh sect. The sect continued to grow till it spread to several parts of the Punjab, Sindh and the North-West Frontier. Gurudwaras sprang up in many places. The non-Sikh Hindus whose temples had been destroyed by the Muslims installed the images of their own gods and goddesses in many Sikh Gurudwaras. The Hindu temples which had survived welcomed the Adi Granth in their precincts. In due course, these places became community centers for Hindu society as a whole.
--

Ik Din Asi Khatay Honna Te Jou Vand De Ne Oho Vandday Jaan Ge||

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾ।।ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ।।
 

F-14B

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Change begins from home change begins with knowlage
Not many hindus and sikhs know the deep bonds that we share
And 1984 hasnt helped the cause the way i see it the INC led GoI headed by Indra bitch successfully tried to brake our unity
Add to that her co brothers in pakistan gave her an helping hand in braking by creating the khalistani movement our only hope is to educate our next genration about the gurus and their sacrifices for our sake every hindu house should have a copy of the guru granth sahibji and we should also discest our children from making fun of the sikhs because of their turbans or other things after all the gurus are ours or rather i will say that every hindu is a sikh and every sikh a hindu for me i proudly follow both because i dont se any diffrence in either for me ma chamundi and Guru Gobind Singh Ji are equally important and i proudly ware a kara even though i have been mocked by my fellow mallus for wareing it i just dont give a fuck about it may waheguru help us all to stay united
 

Tshering22

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It is only among the Dharmic faiths that:

- All four meditate.
- All four can visit each others' places with love and respect.
- All four refrain from non-vegetarian on specific days (certain sub-groups).
- All four believe in the power of Om.
- All call for the world as a common place for humanity.

Hence the only option for us is to stand together as we are the last bastion of our kind left.
 

ashdoc

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i dont mind sikhs having right to separate identity . but the khalistan movement is again rising in punjab , helped by anti nationals like AAP . My hindu punjabi friends tell me hindus who used to go to gurudwaras cant go there any more because anti hindu slogans are being raised there .

sikh population is however dwindling as percentage of population in punjab ( according to 2011 census ) because sikhs are more into drugs than hindus . maybe in future hindus will become majority in punjab and khalistan problem will be automatically solved .
 

Tshering22

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i dont mind sikhs having right to separate identity . but the khalistan movement is again rising in punjab , helped by anti nationals like AAP . My hindu punjabi friends tell me hindus who used to go to gurudwaras cant go there any more because anti hindu slogans are being raised there .

sikh population is however dwindling as percentage of population in punjab ( according to 2011 census ) because sikhs are more into drugs than hindus . maybe in future hindus will become majority in punjab and khalistan problem will be automatically solved .
Khalistani problem will continue till someone keeps bailing Pakistan out.

Khalistanis are the same as Pakistan.

No difference. Their pagdi is fake; their agenda is fake and they are just hateful.

My father-in-law is a Sikh and my mother-in-law is a Hindu and both hail from proper Punjab.

"big difference".

This is just a fake distinction created by Pakistan.

Terrorism will be decimated from India only when two things happen:

1- Pakistan is obliterated as an entity in financial and economic way.
2- The religious funding machinery behind terror radicalisation is demolished.

And both these things are perceived as 'communal' by the media.

Therefore the first step to deal with terrorism is to wean media off its power.

BTW this was even tried between Buddhists and Hindus when a bunch of Ambedkarites talked about different identities.

Ambedkarites are NOT Buddhists and don't represent us.
 

Indibomber

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i dont mind sikhs having right to separate identity . but the khalistan movement is again rising in punjab , helped by anti nationals like AAP . My hindu punjabi friends tell me hindus who used to go to gurudwaras cant go there any more because anti hindu slogans are being raised there .

sikh population is however dwindling as percentage of population in punjab ( according to 2011 census ) because sikhs are more into drugs than hindus . maybe in future hindus will become majority in punjab and khalistan problem will be automatically solved .
I have a Strong problem with that, Buddhists were part of Hindus before Dalai Lama was planted and Sikhs were Hindus before Bhindranwale. If we keep letting this go and everyone starts saying that we are a different religion based on customs then soon, we will have Radha Swomi dharma, Nirankari Dharma, Jat Dharma, Brahmin dharma, Gujjar Dharma.
Pakistan has already started the plot of identifying Dalits as a separate religion and x'tian teams were already doing that. So we need to fight back the wrong things that are being taught.

A Sikhni sitting right next to me just stated that my Hindu friends who celebrate Navratri...Grrrrr. YOU ARE A HINDU TOO...just that you follow customs differently does not make you "Prithak" from Hindus.
 

Bornubus

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@Tiger.Hind


There is a great Indian concept of Shastartha (debate) in which every Hindu sects (including Buddhist and Jainism) debate among themselves to prove the merits of their sect.


You see this is the beauty of Indian religion, you can follow any one of that Beliefs but still called a Hindu. Same as Buddhism or Jain.


King Harsha (contemporary of Muhammad ) was very fond of such Shastartha debates although he was a Shaivite. Other being the famous conflicts between Vaishnav and Shaivism.

Chinese Hieun Tsang who lived in his court debated with Brahmans and later assaulted by them (very rare). Akbar was also fond of such religious debates which had broaden to include Christians during that time.
 
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asingh10

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@Tiger.Hind


There is a great Indian concept of Shastartha (debate) in which every Hindu sects (including Buddhist and Jainism) debate among themselves to prove the merits of their sect.


You see this is the beauty of Indian religion, you can follow any one of that Beliefs but still called a Hindu. Same as Buddhism or Jain.


King Harsha (contemporary of Muhammad ) was very fond of such Shastartha debates although he was a Shaivite. Other being the famous conflicts between Vaishnav and Shaivism.

Chinese Hieun Tsang who lived in his court debated with Brahmans and later assaulted by them (very rare). Akbar was also fond of such religious debates which had broaden to include Christians during that time.
Many Chinese emissaries in Harsha's time were well known for spying and actively indulging in political subversion. Probably the reason hieun tsang was targetted. There was an attack by combined forces of Chinese + Nepalese + Tibeteans shortly after Harsha. They occupied Mithila/Tirhut region for a while and were eventually driven out.
 

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