Colonization of Afghanistan - Possible?

Bornubus

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What is the point of Pak - Afghan Border skirmishes in LoC India Pak skirmishes thread ?

For one i see that the fell good factor although it isn't done by Indian forces but Afghan forces who are historically warlike and won't tolerate crap from "Daalkhoor" Punjabi Musalman (according to them) even if they die at the hand of superiorly equipped pak Army who inflict more damage to Afghan forces whenever such skirmishes took place by Artillery, Air strike or even capturing Afghan territory for some time.


This is also a tight slap to our establishment seeing Afghans are ready to die, busting Paki APC just because of a small disputed village, whereas Pakis cut Indian soldier's head regularly that too coming to our territory from their Territory which is also claimed by India.



But then again it's the same Nation whose 16 BSF troops killed by little Bangladeshi Border Guards without any fear in 2001. So what to expect against Pakis.
 
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mendosa

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Now they will move their forces to western sector which would give us an opportunity to move in and take out the camps.
Interesting times.
Their forces already are in good concentration on the western border for the war in North Waziristan, which is popularly known as Zarb-e-bakwas.

1/3 of their army is deployed on the west, 1/3 on the east, 1/3 reserve force and the rangers are engaged in Sindh. 10k Marines are busy guarding CPEC in Balochistan. They are stretched wide like Sunny Leone. Now is the time to hit them.
 

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What is the point of Pak - Afghan Border skirmishes in LoC India Pak skirmishes thread ?

For one i see that the fell good factor although it isn't done by Indian forces but Afghan forces who are historically warlike and won't tolerate crap from "Daalkhoor" Punjabi Musalman (according to them) even if they die at the hand of superiorly equipped pak Army who inflict more damage to Afghan forces whenever such skirmishes took place by Artillery, Air strike or even capturing Afghan territory for some time.


This is also a tight slap to our establishment seeing Afghans are ready to die, busting Paki APC just because of a small disputed village, whereas Pakis cut Indian soldier's head regularly that too coming to our territory from their Territory which is also claimed by India.



But then again it's the same Nation whose 16 BSF troops killed by little Bangladeshi Border Guards without any fear in 2001. So what to expect against Pakis.
Very small portion of Afghans are warlike. They had their own Gandhi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_Abdul_Ghaffar_Khan

Their terrain is just rugged as heck and is not suitable for colonization, also they have nothing to loot. Otherwise they would have faced same fate as the rest of the subcontinent.
 

mendosa

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Very small portion of Afghans are warlike. They had their own Gandhi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_Abdul_Ghaffar_Khan

Their terrain is just rugged as heck and is not suitable for colonization, also they have nothing to loot. Otherwise they would have faced same fate as the rest of the subcontinent.
The historical facts do not back up your claims.

It's not for nothing that Afghanistan is known as a graveyard of empires. Several empires including British, US, Russian, Central Asian, Sikh, Dogra, Maratha have tried to wage campaigns to capture Afghanistan. What happened next, you can find out on Wikipedia.

They were left alone not because they had nothing to loot.
 

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meh
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The historical facts do not back up your claims.

It's not for nothing that Afghanistan is known as a graveyard of empires. Several empires including British, US, Russian, Central Asian, Sikh, Dogra, Maratha have tried to wage campaigns to capture Afghanistan. What happened next, you can find out on Wikipedia.

They were left alone not because they had nothing to loot.
I mentioned the terrain as well didn't I :) What happened to them when they waged war on equally matched enemies on outside terrain?

Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread. I'm already in the bad books of the mods today.
 

Bornubus

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Very small portion of Afghans are warlike. They had their own Gandhi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_Abdul_Ghaffar_Khan

Their terrain is just rugged as heck and is not suitable for colonization, also they have nothing to loot. Otherwise they would have faced same fate as the rest of the subcontinent.

No great power or empire had any interest in their resources but area inhabited by Afghan tribesmen even the Mughals tried to secure the logical frontier Qandhar - Herat - Kabul Line essential for the defense of Hindustan.


Because once these line falls the gates of Hindustan open for invasion. Raja Birbal was also died fighting these tribesmen followed by Raja Man Singh successfully defeating the 5 major Afghan Tribes who was also the governor of Kabul.


And finally Sikhs annexed this NWFP from it's parent country Afghanistan otherwise India Afghan border will be at Wagha.
 

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meh
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No great power or empire had any interest in their resources but area inhabited by Afghan tribesmen even the Mughals tried to secure the logical frontier Qandhar - Herat - Kabul essential for the defense of Hindustan.


Because once these line falls the gates of Hindustan open for invasion. Raja Birbal was also died fighting these tribesmen followed by Raja Man Singh successfully defeating the 5 major Afghan Tribes who was also the governor of Kabul.


And finally Sikhs annexed this NWFP from it's parent country Afghanistan otherwise India Afghan border will be at Wagha.
Right and they would just retreat to the hills and wage guerrilla warfare which is something they are doing to this day against the Americans and are expert at. The terrain is very well suited for this kind of warfare. That has not much to do with their warlike nature, even notoriously unwarlike Kashmiri musalman like you said are warlike because the terrain in Kashmir makes it easy for them to wage war. Whereas historically warlike Sikh insurgents were wiped out in Punjab...
 

ezsasa

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Very small portion of Afghans are warlike. They had their own Gandhi
Nothing to do with afghans being warlike. Most of the ANA soldiers are always on opium anyways(atleast that's what documentaries want us to believe).

everything was alright at the border initially when ghani came into power, Pakis were betting against abdullah abdullah. Then the taliban talks backed by pakistan failed and ghani turned towards india, this is some time after that indian built dam was inaugurated. This was around the same time paki media started talking down on afghans, similar to how they used to talk down on east pakstanis prior to 71 war.

Since then paki army and FC have been harassing the afghans on the border with intermittent firing, and afghans once in a while do massive mortar shelling retaliation. In the past two years, scale of retaliation has only been increasing by afghans.
 

Tarun Kumar

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Lol emperor ashoka when he was in his chandashok avatar literally mowed down the bactrians (ancestors of afghans) and brought whole afghanistan under Indian rule. Just like today, Takshilans (pakis) surrendered without a fight and bactrians fought but were overpowered by the sheer mite of Indian army. His army was so brutal that it is written in buddhist chronicles that Persian empire voluntarily agreed to surrender after seeing his afghan campaign but by then he was bitten by the buddha bug.
 

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meh
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Lol emperor ashoka when he was in his chandashok avatar literally mowed down the bactrians (ancestors of afghans) and brought whole afghanistan under Indian rule. Just like today, Takshilans (pakis) surrendered without a fight and bactrians fought but were overpowered by the sheer mite of Indian army. His army was so brutal that it is written in buddhist chronicles that Persian empire voluntarily agreed to surrender after seeing his afghan campaign but by then he was bitten by the buddha bug.
Bactrians were not the ancestors of Pashtuns AFAIK, they are one of the lost tribes of Israel. Don't know about other clans.
 

Willy2

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Lol emperor ashoka when he was in his chandashok avatar literally mowed down the bactrians (ancestors of afghans) and brought whole afghanistan under Indian rule. Just like today, Takshilans (pakis) surrendered without a fight and bactrians fought but were overpowered by the sheer mite of Indian army. His army was so brutal that it is written in buddhist chronicles that Persian empire voluntarily agreed to surrender after seeing his afghan campaign but by then he was bitten by the buddha bug.
Ashoka did't capture those area .That overrated king is only can massacre innocent children of own country whose unification is dream of his grand-father and chanakya. It's Chandragupta Maurya who win it from Selucus in 305 BC .
Mauryan never rule this area like "integral" part of Mauryan empire . The western most satrap pf Mauryan empire was based on Taxilla and barely cover any part of Afghanistan.
Rather Mauryan rule those area via greeko-bactrian war-lord , after weakening of Mauryan empire various powerful bactrian king like Demetrious and his father Euthedymus etc rose in power , according to writer of that time they are historic family from Alexanders age rule that area. they act as buffer between central asia/persia and India , who are submissive towards Maurya.
Also tribes don't have problem unless u meddle in their internal matter , so rather capturing them befriending them is easy. Mauryan knows it from first , Britishers realize it late , and now pakis mess it up again.
 

Willy2

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Bactrians were not the ancestors of Pashtuns AFAIK, they are one of the lost tribes of Israel. Don't know about other clans.
Thats jew propaganda i believe , they also claim Kashmiri are 12th lost tribe of them bla bla bla.
Pashtun in veda known as pakhta tribe , and also afridis were mentioned too in veda , probably as "Apratis". they are there as long as we are in India.
I believe greek-soldier who later marry and set family with local women able to be the trusted one in betwen tribes , also western afghanistan , west of hindukush which is knows as khorasan to our arab brothers are mostly iranic ppl , rather "indian" tribe.
We should forget that Afghanistan's historic identity is't 500 year old , it's created by duranis in 18th century. There is rumors that Pak-china-Russia want to break afghanistan in two part .1) pashtun majority eastern one 2) wastern khorasan based on herat.
 

pmaitra

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All these posts were off-topic in their original location. However, given the discussion was informative, I have created a new thread. Please continue here.
 

LordOfTheUnderworlds

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No one really sure about origin of Pashtuns. All just claims and speculations depending on everyone's own insecurities and prejudices.
And I don't understand how white jews keep claiming people all over the world from all races using genetics as if jews are some single pure race.
 

Bornubus

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I know 2 guys from North East (mongoloid features) who have migrated to Israel and one of them is in IDF not sure about the other.


Gen Jacob was also a Baghdadi Jew.

Other than that there are several people claim that they can identify a white Jew by just looking at them.
 

porky_kicker

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Lol emperor ashoka when he was in his chandashok avatar literally mowed down the bactrians (ancestors of afghans) and brought whole afghanistan under Indian rule. Just like today, Takshilans (pakis) surrendered without a fight and bactrians fought but were overpowered by the sheer mite of Indian army. His army was so brutal that it is written in buddhist chronicles that Persian empire voluntarily agreed to surrender after seeing his afghan campaign but by then he was bitten by the buddha bug.
Takshilans (pakis) ?????

what the hell , no disrespect but u got ur history total wrong WRT pakis.

PAKISTAN / PORKISTAN history began on 1947 , before that they never had any history .


ur comparing those historyless bastards with Takshilans , when the simple fact that Takshilans r indians part of indian civilization perse eludes u ?

IVC etc etc is part of and will always be part of indian civilization.

if indians keep visiting shitty pakiforums and parroting their lines, soon they were forget their own history.
 

Rudra Mahalaya

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The historical facts do not back up your claims.

It's not for nothing that Afghanistan is known as a graveyard of empires. Several empires including British, US, Russian, Central Asian, Sikh, Dogra, Maratha have tried to wage campaigns to capture Afghanistan. What happened next, you can find out on Wikipedia.

They were left alone not because they had nothing to loot.
At the same time mughals,greeks,arabs,mauryas and almost every central asian muslim empire etc. Conqured it.

This graveyard of empire label was mostlikely given to them by british empire.
 

mendosa

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No one really sure about origin of Pashtuns. All just claims and speculations depending on everyone's own insecurities and prejudices.
And I don't understand how white jews keep claiming people all over the world from all races using genetics as if jews are some single pure race.
True.

In fact, this whole thing about 'true origins' is a farce because we are comparing historic migrations of people from a time when the concept of the nation state - border control - citizenship - immigration was not as solid as it is now. When someone says X community came from outside, then the question arises, 'outside of where'? the current political boundaries?

@Rudra Mahalaya The idea of nationhood is a complex subject. If you go strictly by the social sciences definition of a 'nation', it is based on ethnic nationalities. So they consider 'Tamil people' as a nation. If you go by political theory, then it rejects the idea of 'a nation of people' and introduces a new concept of nation state built of multi-ethnic multi cultural people. If you take the economic definition, they they reject both, nation and nation state and focus only on 'state'. They don't care about ethnicity or political beliefs. They look at a state from the economic output and purchasing power. If it suits their free market agenda, they recommend the annexing of territory or breaking up of nations based on which parts of the nation are performing well and which parts are dead weight.

If you go by India's definition, then we reject all the above definitions and have our own definition called a 'civilizational state' where we have many ethnic groups, language groups, religions etc, but the core civilizational values are common (spanning from cuisine to attitudes towards money, saving, relationships, respect for elders). It is not limited by geography. That is why, even though we lost 30% land in partition, as per civilization theory, everything from Sindh river to Himalays is a part of our Sindhu civilization. The political setback of partition is seen as a temporary tactical loss, hence the idea of an Akhand Bharat looms in our minds because that is our civilizational concept of nationhood, which does not match the nation-state concept which was imposed on us when we were colonized. Similar Afghanistan has its own definition of Afghan nationhood which is civilizational in nature but they have not been colonized.

Nations built on the Christian concept of nationhood have crumbled already. The EU project failed because member states, despite being all white skinned people with Christian beliefs couldn't find common ground. Within that division, there are sub divisions where Scotts want to split apart, the Irish have already split apart, not to mention IRA terrorist groups. So, despite having so many common and overlapping markers (all white Christians), in addition to a big economy and low population density they couldn't keep their people glued together with a common narrative.

Afghanistan is just the opposite of that. There is no homogenous 'Afghan' ethnicity, just like there is no one Indian ethnicity. They have their Shias, and Sunnis, Pathans and Hazaras, their haves and have nots, their elites and tribals, Urdu speakers and Pashto, Darri speakers, but despite all the differences there is one common civilizational glue binding them together. They absorbed groups which they wanted to absorb and the new 'invaders' became naturalized citizens of the Afghan nationhood narrative, and they themselves defended the nation from other invaders. This is not the same as the US or Russia invading Afghanistan. When these powers invaded, they did it with the intention of retaining their own identity and imposing it on the Afghans, so they were rejected by Afghan society, unlike the central Asian 'invaders' which you mentioned who settled and intermingled with Afghan society.

The Sikhs went there, the Dogras went there, the Rajputs went there, the Marathas went there, even Buddhists went there, and each one of them has fought and won battles in Afghanistan, but were they able to stay, subjugate and colonize Afghanistan on a long term basis like the British or Mughals colonized India? Were the invaders successful in imposing their own culture in such a manner Afghans started saying, "we are not Afghans anymore, we are Mughals/Christians?".

Now compare that with Pakistan, which is an artificial state, where people think they are not Indian but Arabs. Now, THAT is true colonization where the subject loses his own identity and takes on the identity of the colonizer.
 
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