Classic Top Ten Tanks

JBH22

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@DAMIAN any info on the T-62 this tank has been forgotten though it saw action considerably in various hot spots
 

Damian

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Ahhh, T-62 is very interesting tank, it was not fully successfull design, still it clear way for smoothbore tank guns.

In the essence T-62 was just enlarged T-55 woth different engine, longer hull, new turret with bigger gun etc.

Really interesting versions are the newer ones with such improvements like LRF, BDD addon armor or 4S20 Kontakt-1 ERA, GLATGM firing capabilities etc.

Also on T-62 Soviets developed a rocket tank, it was IT-1 that main armament was Drakon ATGM launcher and second armament was 7,62mm machine gun. Of course there were also other interesting missile tanks design in Soviet Union, like Object 770.

Not to mean any disrespect to anyone else, I would nominate Damien as the DFI resident expert on the subject of armor. :)
Thanks but I do not deserve such eee, title? I'am just simple enthusiast, nothing more.
 

Damian

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Going back to T-62 subject I will base some informations on Zaloga S.J. T-62 Main Battle Tank 1965-2005 from Osprey New Vanguard series and on informations from A. Tarasenko blog and BTVT site as they have many very informative informations about Soviet tanks development history.

The most interesting thing is that T-62 not being signifacntly better armored or more mobile than M60A1 or Chieftain tanks, it was very well armored and in some points used more advanced FCS elements.

For example Israelis were very impressed with T-62 firepower and night fighting capabilities (T-62's had active IR night sights while Israelis still used flares or big reflectors).

The main problem with T-62 was automated shell cases ejector, for it's operation cycle gun was automatically rise for loading cycle position, however there was one small problem. Normally the gun is slaved to sight, so actually gun follows sight not opposite, however in T-62 sight was slaved to gun so after each shot, gunner loose his view on target and can't make any corrects if first shot was short or over target.

It was solved in newer versions of T-62.
 
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JBH22

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^ Any info on the Soviet Afghan war how they use the T-62? plus the thing that I remember for T-62 is the Toyota war how Chads use technicals to knock em out..pretty smart if you think about it

A toyota with AT missile vs million dollar worth tank :)
 

Damian

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T-62's used in Afghan war were preatty effective as a direct fire support vehicles for infantry. There were around 625 T-62's initialy in Afghanistan used by Soviet Army and some used by Afghan Army. Many of them uparmored with BDD armor and/or Reschetka slat armor. Total losses of T-62 tanks in Afghanistan reached 385 tanks.

As for Toyota Wars, we need to remember that these T-62's were used in such idiotic way that their advantages were irrevelant. Besides this vehicles probably lacked BDD armor or slat armor to increase protection against RPG's and SPG's or ATGM's.
 

Armand2REP

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OK, time to start debunking...

You have absoluterly no knowledge, this is not autoloader, there is no automated process, the whole system in AMX-13 was more similiar to principles of automatic firearms reloading process, system is based on coil spring, this is not true autoloader... :pound
Definition of autoloader - a mechanical aid or replacement for the personnel that load ordnance into crew-served weapons, such as tanks and artillery.

AMX-13 autoloader eliminated the need for the loader position cutting the crew from 4 to 3. The gun could fire 10 rounds in under a minute without the need of human interaction with the ammo. It meets the definition quite well. Just because it doesn't meet YOUR definition of autoloader meaning any loader that isn't French doesn't mean a thing. The AMX-13 and its autoloader was the most successful Light Tank of the Cold War.


AMX-30 in B2 variant is using 105mm rifled gun designated CN-105-F1 You amateur, and look when AMX-30B2 was fielded.
Damn guy, you are such a juvenile to not recognise the conversation which is the FIRST smoothbore on a tank. It isn't the rifled barrel of the AMX-30B2 but the smoothbore of the original AMX-30. It wasn't rifled until the B2 upgrade to take standard NATO 105mm rounds.

Lay off the wiki next time...

http://www.armyrecognition.com/main...al_data_sheet_information_description_uk.html
AMX-30 Main Battle Tank (France)
Army Guide - AMX-30, Main battle tank


I'am at least not stupid and I do not base my knowledge on stupid movies from YT but my knwledge is based on books. From where You take information that AMX-30 use smoothbore gun, You are really from France? I do not belive, You don't have even smallest idea about tanks development history in Your own country.
I don't know man, you must be pretty dense to not know the difference between Youtube movies and a tank documentary from The Military Channel, fka Discovery Wings. You have ever been inside a tank? I don't believe!! You don't have a clue what you are whining about. Just like you got owned talking about Russia invading the EU. :pound:
 
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Vladimir79

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Armand, are you done schooling this guy or are you going to leave him to his own devices? You know he is only trolling you.
 

Damian

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Definition of autoloader - a mechanical aid or replacement for the personnel that load ordnance into crew-served weapons, such as tanks and artillery.

AMX-13 autoloader eliminated the need for the loader position cutting the crew from 4 to 3. The gun could fire 10 rounds in under a minute without the need of human interaction with the ammo. It meets the definition quite well. Just because it doesn't meet YOUR definition of autoloader meaning any loader that isn't French doesn't mean a thing. The AMX-13 and its autoloader was the most successful Light Tank of the Cold War.
1) It is not autoloader, the whole cycle is not automated, or in a different way, actually autoloader is also incorrect term, the correct term is mechanical or mechanized loading system, because the system is a mechanical device, autoloader is just shorter thus simpler term.

Also France did not developed autoloaders, the first country with such design was USA, however design was not implemented in any fielded tank.

The prototype with this system was designated T22E1:



One prototype was builded.

Also Germans were experimenting with autoloading mechanism but most probably it was not in as advanced stage as US project.

Damn guy, you are such a juvenile to not recognise the conversation which is the FIRST smoothbore on a tank. It isn't the rifled barrel of the AMX-30B2 but the smoothbore of the original AMX-30. It wasn't rifled until the B2 upgrade to take standard NATO 105mm rounds.

Lay off the wiki next time...

http://www.armyrecognition.com/main_...iption_uk.html
AMX-30 Main Battle Tank (France)
Army Guide - AMX-30, Main battle tank
These informations are incorrect, AMX-30 tank never used smoothbore gun, CN-105-F1 was a rifled gun from the start, this is why HEAT ammunition needed special race ring to prevent spin of the warhead and decrease in penetration values of shaped charge jet.

Army Guide - CN105F1 (MECA), Gun
Chilean Armor
AMX-30 Main Battle Tank

As we can see other sources says us that AMX-30 gun was rifled.

BTW it seems that in Your links they are just confused CN-105-F1 gun with a Rhinemetall gun that was never mounted in any French tank, also they probably confused designation with CN-120/26 120mm smoothbore gun. Besides this logic in Your words is just incredible, why the hell they would first mount more modenr smoothbore gun and then replace it with such relic like rifled gun? Where is logic?

I don't know man, you must be pretty dense to not know the difference between Youtube movies and a tank documentary from The Military Channel, fka Discovery Wings.
? In any case these sources are poor and unreliabale.

You have ever been inside a tank? I don't believe!! You don't have a clue what you are whining about.
And You probably sit in a tank, and You are probably a war hero, yes yes, we belive in Your huge and incredible "knowledge"!

No I never sit in a tank, however I saw interior photos of more AFV's than You are availabale to ever imagine.

Just like you got owned talking about Russia invading the EU.
First as obvious You did not understand anything what I wrote there, second Russia have any means to do that successfully, especially with reductions in European countries arsenals, in UK it allready can be called insane where currently plans says to leave only 35 tanks in the entire RAC, 35 tanks, one regiment.

Vladimir79
Armand, are you done schooling this guy or are you going to leave him to his own devices? You know he is only trolling you.
Only person trolling here is You, do You have any arguments for discussion? No? So fuck off...
 
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Damian

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A here another good proof from good, known and respected author Marsh Gelbart book Tanks: Main Battle and Light Tanks



Gun is rifled, and the book is more credible than internet sources, and don't worry I will find even more proofs.
 

Armand2REP

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Armand, are you done schooling this guy or are you going to leave him to his own devices? You know he is only trolling you.
I know mate, I don't know how you convince a guy that says The Military Channel, Army Recognition and Army Guide doesn't know what they are talking about. Or that an autoloader that meets the definition of an autoloader isn't a real autoloader. Or someone who thinks Russia CF stands a chance to the CF of the EU. I don't think he is trolling, he really believes what he is saying but just doesn't want to look at the truth. I know he loves Russian kit and hates French, that's about all I can deduce.
 

Damian

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And You of course, internet specialist belives internet sources that are not credible, the Army Guide states that AMX-30 is armed with Rhinemetall gun. :)

In the same time here another good proov from Ryszard Ogórkiewicz book about AMX-30 ("AFV Profile, AMX-30 Battle Tank").




Author clearly states that HEAT ammunition needed special design (race ring) so it can be effectively fired without a spin effect from rifled gun.

What next You will bring here, another not credible internet site against credible author and his book? :)

All hail to Armand2REP, a French weapons specialist that don't have any idea about weapon systems from his own country. :)

I know he loves Russian kit and hates French,
I do not love Russia nor hate France, I just have unbiased view on reality, contrary to You teen patriot that thinks, patriotism means bashing other countries and prise without any criticism designs from Your own country.

Besides this You clearly don't even read books of world wide known authors that are respected by tank lovers community, instead Your sources are unreliabale internet sites and Discovery/Military Channel silly pseudo documentaries.
 
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p2prada

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It is just insane, only one regiment with only 35 tanks?! Stupidity of politicians just exceed any expectations.

So USMC alone will be stronger than whole British Armed Forces...
]

Haha! I had pointed that out in one of the air force threads. In another 10 years, the IAF alone will be bigger than British, French and German air forces combined. Perhaps even other European countries included, except Russia.
 

Damian

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p2p, You see, this is why I hope that my country will leave this sick thing called EU, we will have true competetive capitalism and our armed forces will be strong enough to defend my country. Unfortunetly there are some idiots in our parliment that want to also reduce to such levels our armed forces or even resign from independence.

But this is politics, and here we have technology thread, so we should stick to this.

And another proof that CN-150F1 gun is a rifled gun.

http://www.airlandseaweapons.com/blog/565806-evolution-of-conventional-rifled-guns-on-tanks-ii/



This photo is another proof that AMX-30 is using rifled gun, we can see it in photo description and even rifling is actually visible.

Source is magazine War Machine Vol.1 No.1.
 
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W.G.Ewald

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Seeing the graphic of the AMX-13 posted by Armand2REP reminds me of the training aid for friendly/enemy armor vehicle identification we used, which was a deck of cards with 3 views of the vehicle of each type on a card. The AMX-13 was the most distinctive. Is there a wheeled version with 8 wheels?
 

W.G.Ewald

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Has the Leopard come up in this discussion?
 

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