Claims of tolerance are often in self-interest - Aakar Patel

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by LurkerBaba, Nov 25, 2012.

  1. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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    Seeing the author, there is a tendency to skip the entire article. But this article is quite unlike Aakar Patel

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    A community demonstrates its secular and pluralistic credentials where it is a majority. As minorities, all communities make claims of tolerance because it’s in their self-interest. On the Indian subcontinent, which they know by the beautiful name Burr-e-Sagheer, Muslims are in a majority in three corners. West (Pakistan), north (Kashmir), east (Bangladesh). They are a minority in two regions. The centre they called Hindustan, from Sirhind, the head of Hind, to the Tapi river. From Surat, on the south bank of the Tapi, begins Dakhin. There is a continuity across the three geographical areas where Muslims are a majority. It is neither secular nor plural.
    First let’s see it in Pakistan’s constitution.

    Sovereignty in that nation belongs not to Pakistan’s citizens and voters, but “to Allah Almighty alone”. Minorities get “adequate provision” to “freely profess and practise their religions and develop their cultures”. In 1951, the word “freely” was inserted. In 1985, it was removed. In 2010, it was reinserted. This is a commonplace in Muslim states, and I shall explain why later.
    Pakistan’s constitution says the “principles of democracy, freedom, equality, tolerance and social justice as enunciated by Islam shall be fully observed”. How much democracy, freedom, equality and tolerance?

    In Pakistan, no Sikh can become president [Article 41 (2)], no Christian can become prime minister (Article 91-5). The real villain is, of course, the Hindu. This is what Pakistani children are taught in class V: “The Hindu has always been an enemy of Islam” and “Hindus worship in temples, which are very narrow and dark places, where they worship idols”. In class VI: “Hindus live in small, dark houses” and Partition happened because the Congress “demanded that the Muslims should either embrace Hinduism or leave the country” (taken from A.H. Nayyar and Ahmed Salim’s work The Subtle Subversion).

    To become a Pakistani legislator one must be “not commonly known as one who violates Islamic injunctions” (Article 62-1d), must have “adequate knowledge of Islamic teachings and practises obligatory duties prescribed by Islam” (Article 62-1e). Interior minister Rehman Malik was in September unseated by the Supreme Court, which observed that he was not a good enough Muslim. In Pakistan, you don’t decide what faith you belong to: Islam will determine this. Punjab’s finance minister Rana Asif Mahmood (also fired this year by the Supreme Court) is a Christian, as was his father, Rana Taj Mahmood. A few months ago, someone mistakenly recorded Asif Mahmood’sfaith in the national database as Islam. Mahmood now cannot change this because the punishment for leaving Islam is death. Once a Muslim, even by someone’s mistake, always a Muslim. This is not the saying of some cleric, it is the order of Pakistan’s chief justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry.
    “Secular” is an allegation in Pakistani politics. It is a word of abuse. Its meaning is “la-deen” (outside Islam).


    Now Kashmir.

    The warriors of independence from India are Islam’s warriors, not secularists. No need to look too far to prove this. The two biggest Kashmiri leaders represent Islamic conservatism (Umar Farooq, the head cleric or Mirwaiz of Srinagar) and Islamic radicalism (Ali Shah Geelani of Jamaat-e-Islami). Both men want Shariah.

    The freedom fighters are called Muhammad’s soldiers (Jaish-e-Muhammad), Muhammad’s army (Lashkar-e-Taiba) and Muhammad’s helpers (Harkat ul-Ansar, now known as Harket ul-Mujahideen). The freedom fighter is a mujahid, his cause is jihad against Hindus.
    Will azadi from India mean Kashmir will be relocated to Arabia? No, it will remain on the Indian subcontinent, north of Jammu, west of Ladakh.
    Kashmir’s azadi means freedom from India’s secular constitution. Azadi is the right of Kashmiri Muslims to persecute Kashmiri non-Muslims because that is what Shariah stands for in Pakistan as we have seen.


    Now Bangladesh.

    The high culture of all Bengalis was Hindu because it is Rabindric. The politics of Bangladesh is split on whether this should continue (the position of Sheikh Hasina’s Bangladesh Awami League) or be dismantled and made Islamic (the position of Khaleda Zia’s BNP, or Bangladesh Nationalist Party), which is allied with the Jamaat-e-Islami).

    Like in Pakistan, Islam is the religion of the state in Bangladesh. This was the doing of dictators. Hasina promised her Hindu voters she would change that democratically but couldn’t. This is because the majority of Bangladeshi Muslims prefer an Islamic state to a secular one. Bangladesh was a third Hindu at Partition. It, today, is about a 10th Hindu.
    Bismillah ir Rahman ir Rahim was inserted into the Bangladesh constitution and removed by the Supreme Court. This has become a major issue in politics.

    I spoke earlier about the unease of Pakistan with the word “freely” when offering non-Muslims the right to practise their faith. This is because the Islamic state defines itself through discrimination. In fact, a state becomes Islamic through demotion of non-Muslims. Jizya, the tax for being born Hindu, was applied, then removed, reapplied and then removed by Maratha force during the Mughal period. The same thing, as we have seen, is happening in Pakistan’s constitution.

    The second aspect of Muslim majority on the subcontinent is the depopulation of its minorities. Pakistan was 70% Muslim at Partition, today it is 97% Muslim. Having got rid of minorities, Muslims then turn on themselves. Takfiri (declaring one another kafir (non-believer) has been the primary pastime of Muslims through their history.

    Since 2000, 10 times more Muslims have died on the subcontinent in religious violence at the hands of fellow Muslims than at the hands of Hindus. There is great discrimination, great oppression of Muslims on the subcontinent, but it is mostly from fellow Muslims.
    Hindus are better off under Hindu majority. But the truth is that the Muslim is also better off under Hindu majority because he’s protected from his own mischief under Islam.


    There’s a bomb ticking in Pakistan’s constitution. It is Article 227 (1): “All existing laws shall be brought in conformity with the injunctions of Islam” and “no law shall be enacted which is repugnant to such injunctions.”
    Implementation of this is all that Taliban and al-Qaeda are demanding. They are on the right side of the law.

    To me the Pakistani Muslim is the same as an Indian Muslim. He understands my words of abuse as I do his. Our wives both cook with garam masala. He’s my brother and we share a culture. A political line drawn a few decades ago doesn’t change that.
    My problem, looking at Pakistan dispassionately, is that it is not self-correcting. The question is why. Let’s look at an unusual place to find its answer next week.

    http://www.livemint.com/Leisure/h34SBYVy3lfWwMIny905CI/When-sovereignty-belongs-to-a-god.html

    @panduranghari @KS @Mad Indian @Iamanidiot @parijataka
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
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  3. blank_quest

    blank_quest Senior Member Senior Member

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    Read it yesterday.. what a nice response this article was getting on BRF :lol:
     
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  4. Iamanidiot

    Iamanidiot Elite Member Elite Member

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    The Indian sub continent is prone to war and it will start in Pakistan and Bangladesh into some kind of civil war.Meanwhile the Indian continent will see some sort of Hindu consolidation.This started in 1850's itself.It accelerated in the 1990's.
     
  5. blank_quest

    blank_quest Senior Member Senior Member

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    Aakar Patel is some pseudo-secularist .. he is challenging the religion of peace .. mind it .:tsk:
     
  6. Iamanidiot

    Iamanidiot Elite Member Elite Member

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    Meanwhile among Hindus a second set of reform movements will be unleashed leading to blurring of caste lines among them.Where as class differences will be there .Hinduism as a religion will also undergo metamorphosis and will shed some of its legacy evils.Among the Hindus the backward castes will take its mantle
     
  7. blank_quest

    blank_quest Senior Member Senior Member

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    Hope so```` When I will become budhha then may be it will become a reality :(
     
  8. Iamanidiot

    Iamanidiot Elite Member Elite Member

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    It has been continually occuring as we speak .
     
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  9. Galaxy

    Galaxy Elite Member Elite Member

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    Golden words!! Finally, someone said it!

    TRUE!!


    Mohd. Jinnah said after partition "You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place or worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed -- that has nothing to do with the business of the State". :wave:

    Today, Hindus are only 8% in BD, about a 12th Hindu. Hindus declined from 20 odd % to less than 1% in Kashmir valley within few decades. There is not a single region in South Asia that is Muslim majority and Hindus are safe. Is this co-incident? :rolleyes:

    There is no relation between "Secularism" and "Islam" at least in South Asia. Yes, some Muslims pretend to be tolerant and secular. Simply, it’s in their self-interest as patel said.

    That is the reason, some Hindus are worried due to changing demographic !
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
  10. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    Hinduism is finished. I used to not think so but its finished. Sorry to burst your bubble.
     
  11. Galaxy

    Galaxy Elite Member Elite Member

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    I think, You took the individual opinion of one of the staff member seriously who said, Hinduism will perish soon. Ask him the exact time-frame. :rolleyes:

    IMO, Half of the Hindus will go towards extreme end in few decades.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
  12. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    Can you please elaborate on this, IMHO most educated Hindus turn secularists at best and rabid Hindu bashing scoundrels at the worst. Hindutva is dying even a faster death than Hinduism.
     
  13. Galaxy

    Galaxy Elite Member Elite Member

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    Frankly speaking, I am not sure about the educated part. I'm bit perplexed. The days are gone when all educated and liberal Hindus use to bash Hinduism (Communist type). Today, the ratio is 50:50 i suppose and going forward, the equation will change. Middle-class Hindus are predominately right-winger in most of the countries and middle-class population is rising at very rapid pace.

    Hindutva is not dying. In fact, It is rising and consolidating it's existing strength in many parts of the country. How you can say Hinduva is rising or not? Don't relate Hindutva with BJP success.

    Most of the Hindus are secularist, moderate, tolerant and apathetic/unconcerned/insensitive about their religion. They will remain so. I have no hope. We can't do much in that. Hence, it's better we concentrate on Hindutva and ignore the religion part. This is what i feel.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
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  14. Iamanidiot

    Iamanidiot Elite Member Elite Member

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    I find it to be the most assertive since the last 9 centuries it is even consolidating.It has consolidated in MP,UP,Gujarat,Maha,Karnataka,Haryana,Punjab,Bihar,Orissa and Chattisgarh heck it is even consolidating in Kerala.Todays world is a different place kid.News cannot be masked anymore in India with the emergence of alternate media
     
  15. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    Please look at LETHALFORCE's posts on the Religious demographics thread, he says how in his wife's native village in Gujarat over 35% are Christians, most growth is in last 10-15 years.

    Regardless I am hoping you are right...how is Hinduism consolidating in Kerala where all Hindus are basically communist?
     
  16. Iamanidiot

    Iamanidiot Elite Member Elite Member

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    I will take that with a pinch of salt.Gujarat has a law against conversions and heck the VHP is quite active in South Gujarat.Modi is getting the maximum no of seats from south Gujarat this time
     
  17. Galaxy

    Galaxy Elite Member Elite Member

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    Forget about that. It might be an exceptional case. Gujarat is a fundamentally Hindu state. I can give some reason also but that won't be the wise thing to do here. Gujarat is one of the centre of "Hindutva" and successful!

    RSS has the second highest number of Shakhas in Kerala. All Keralites are not communist except may be Nambudiri community. As i said, Don't relate Hindutva with BJP. Many Hindutva guys don't vote to BJP because of political reason or personal dislike. Why Communist lost last election ? Because BJP got around 5% vote. More support for BJP means division of Hindu votes and more power to Muslim league and Christian party(KCP). This is the problem.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
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  18. natarajan

    natarajan Senior Member Senior Member

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    It is well known fact ,nothing new.People who jump for palestinian killings will close everything when muslims got killed by muslims itself in kashmir or pakistan.They shout for economic situation and job reservation from police to government jobs but they forget to do in Kashmir where they are in majority.Can any media have program on plight of minority in kashmir ?
     
  19. Iamanidiot

    Iamanidiot Elite Member Elite Member

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    An observation about the electoral patterns in India.Congress is loosing its minority vote where as BJP is consolidating its vote.Even in AP with the entrance of Jagan people are not ignoring the 300 lb gorilla in the room Evangelicals.
     
  20. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    How do these Evangelical idiots live with themselves...don't they know they are destroying the cultural fabric of this land?
     
  21. Galaxy

    Galaxy Elite Member Elite Member

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    Have you been to Chattisgarh ?

    10-20 years back, There use to be a Church after every KM. Today, you will hardly find one. 97% population is still Hindu. If any evangelist want to convert any tribal Hindu, That person has to fill a very lengthy complicate form, that also with proper reason in 1 month advance and then submit to the government department (Due to strict conversion law), Then the application will be cross-examined by few Sangh folks (until BJP is in power). Then verdict! who will try such misadventure ? You might have not noticed but even Congress didn't opposed such law.

    There is reason why such evangelist hate BJP.

    After long observation, I came to the conclusion that, Hinduism cannot fight against a section of Abrahmic faith who have such nefarious design funded by wahhabi and western countries. Hindus by nature are timid and tolerant. Hopeless case IMHO. Hence, Hindutva is the only answer. To cut the iron rod, iron is needed. There is also one more advantage. Hindutva defeats caste system as per my personal experience. You will see a consensus among a very large section of Hindutva folks irrespective of caste, region and ethnic.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
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