CIWS : Close-In Warfare System

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by sandeepdg, Mar 30, 2010.

  1. sandeepdg

    sandeepdg Senior Member Senior Member

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    GUN SYSTEMS:

    1) Oerlikon Millennium 35 mm Naval Revolver Gun System (Germany, Switzerland)


    Manufacturer : Rheinmetall Defence, Oerlikon Contraves
    Weight Gun: 450kg
    Mount: 3200kg
    Shell 35 x 288 mm
    Caliber 35 mm
    Action: Revolver cannon
    Elevation: -15 / +85 degrees; rate: 70 degree/s
    Traverse: 360 degrees; rate: 120 degrees per second
    Rate of fire 1000 rounds per minute automatic
    Muzzle velocity AHEAD: 3,445 fps (1,050 mps)
    HEI: 3,854 fps (1,175 mps)
    APDS/T: 3,950 fps (1,440 mps)

    Effective range: 3500m (3830 yards)
    Feed system : 200 round on mount


    2) Phalanx CIWS (United States)


    Manufacturer : Raytheon
    Weight 12,500 lb (5,700 kg), later models 13,600 lb (6,200 kg) [1]
    Crew: Automated, with human oversight
    Shell Naval - Armor-piercing tungsten penetrator rounds with discarding sabots.
    Caliber 20 mm
    Barrels 6
    Elevation Block 0: -10 / +80 degrees
    Block 1: -20 / +80 degrees
    Block 1B: -25 / +85 degrees[3]
    Traverse: -150 / +150 degrees[3]
    Rate of fire: 3,000-4,500 rounds/minute.
    Muzzle velocity: 1,100 m/s
    Range: 9 km
    Primary armament: 1 x 20 mm M61 Vulcan Gatling gun autocannon



    3) Goalkeeper CIWS (Netherlands)

    Manufacturer : Thales Nederland
    Weight: 6,372 kg with 1,190 rds of ammunition (above deck), 9,902 kg (total).
    Crew: Automated, with human oversight
    Caliber: 30 mm
    Barrels: 7
    Elevation: +85 to −25 degrees at 80 degrees/sec
    Traverse: 360°
    Rate of fire: 70 rounds/second (4,200 rounds/minute)
    Muzzle velocity: 1,109 m/s (MPDS round)
    Effective range: 350 to between 1,500 and 2,000 meters dependent on ammunition
    Primary armament: 1 x GAU-8/A Avenger 30 mm seven-barrel Gatling gun


    4) Meroka CIWS ( Spain)

    Manufacturer: Oerlikon/Lockheed/Indra
    Gun: 12 × Oerlikon 20 mm/120.
    Weight: 4,500 kg (9,900 lb).
    Elevation: -15° to +85°.
    Traverse: 360°.
    Muzzle velocity: 1,290 m/s (4,200 ft/s).
    Rate of fire: 1,440 rounds per minute cyclic (for all twelve barrels).
    Range: 1500m
    Ammunition: Fixed (APDS-T) 720 rounds in a magazine, 60 rounds per barrel.
    Weapons range: Effective range with APDS-T (0.102 kg with sabot), roughly 1,500–2,000 meters.



    5) Kashtan CIWS (Russia)


    Manufacturer: KBP Instrument Design Bureau
    Target altitude: 5 m to 4,000 m
    Maximum speed - rocket: 600 m/s - 900 m/s
    Number of targets engaged
    simultaneously: up to 6
    Rate of fire: 10,000–12,000 rds/min
    Cartridge types: 30 mm with HE-Frag and Frag-T projectiles
    Weight: 15,500 kg with ammunition and control systems
    Range (gun): 4000m
    Range (missiles): 10 kms



    6) DARDO CIWS (Italy)

    Manufacturer: Oto Melara
    Weight 5,500 kg (without ammunition)
    4.05 kg (HE round)
    Caliber 40 mm
    Barrels 2 × Bofors 40 mm L/70
    Elevation Minimum -15° Maximum +83°
    speed: 60°/s
    Traverse speed: 90°/s
    Rate of fire 2 × 300 rounds/min
    Effective range 4,000 m (HE round)
    Maximum range 8,700 m (AA with HE)
    Feed system: Magazine: 736 HE rounds (444 Type B mount)
    Dual feed mechanism with 736 HE and 200 APFSDS rounds

    7) Type 730 CIWS (China)

    Developer: Xi'an Research Institute of Navigation Technology
    Caliber: 30 mm
    Barrels: 7x30 mm Gatling gun
    Traverse: 360*
    Rate of fire: 4600-5800 rounds/min
    Ammunitions: 1,000 rds (armour piercing discarding sabot and HE)
    Range: 3,000m
     

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    Last edited: Mar 31, 2010
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  3. indian_sukhoi

    indian_sukhoi Regular Member

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    Close-in weapon system like these are the last ditch to save your ship. You cannot have hopes on these things of intercepting the missiles, especially the supersonic ones!!!

    Most of our Ships are fitted with Kasthan whereas the The INS Jalashwa is fitted with Phalanx. Kashtan CIWS rate of fire looks more superior to any other CIWS, but never proved in War. Does any Close-in weapon guns ever intercepted a missile in WAR??
    Which CIWS do you guys prefer?
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2010
  4. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    I always did like the Kashtan, but then it takes two 30mm gatlings just to equal the efficiency of one Goalkeeper. Adding Grison SAMs on it helps give it better range. So as a single system Kashtan is the best. Russians might lack the electronic precision, but if you throw everything at it including the kitchen sink, you are bound to hit it.
     
  5. slenke

    slenke Regular Member

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    My preference would be the Bofors 57 mk3 naval gun. It can be used against all kinds of threats, and is seen as one of the best guns in it's class in the world. However, I'm not sure you would want to fire it at a target 5 meters away..

    From http://www.baesystems.com/ProductsServices/bae_prod_bofors_mm_mk_three.html

    The 57 Mk3 gun has this flexibility, which is proven by the fact that it is the deck gun of choice for the US Coast Guard’s National Security Cutter and offshore patrol cutter classes of ships, as well as for the US Navy’s LCS ships and the DDG 1000 Stealth Destroyers.

    Bofors 57 Mk3 gun system (US denomination 57 mm Mk110) with its high rate of fire and immediate switch capability between optimized ammunition types, including the new smart 57 mm 3P all-target ammunition, provides high survivability and tactical freedom at all levels of conflict.

    Capability:

    * 6-mode programmable all-target ammunition.
    * Air burst capability for small boat defence and engagement of concealed targets.
    * 220 rounds per minute rate of fire and super accuracy gives short firing sequences.
    * 120 rounds ready to fire with immediate shift between two types of ammunition.
    * On-mount muzzle velocity radar.
    * Computer-controlled burst pattern.
    * Remotely-operated with gyro-stabilized local control back-up.
    * Maximum range: 17,000 metres.

    Technical Data:

    * Rounds in gun: 120 rounds.
    * Time to open fire at 45° training and 35° elevation from stand-by condition: 2.2 s.
    * Rate of fire: 4 rounds per second.
    * Muzzle velocity: 1,035 m/s.
    * Max range: 17,000 m.
    * Dispersion (typical values): - Elevation (s-value) 0.4 mrad - T raining (s-value) 0.4 mrad.
    * Life of barrel: up to 5,300 rounds.
    * Total weight of gun (excl. ammunition): 7,500 kg.
    * Weight including 1,000 rounds onboard: 14,000 kg.
    * Length of ammunition hoists: 1,960 to 9,805 mm.
    * Gyro-stabilized in local control.

    Demonstration in Discovery Channels' "Future Weapons"; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzBPGfCq21s&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK64UnD3bvM&feature=related
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2010
  6. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Single barrel flak guns have proven highly inadequate when dealing with sea skimming missiles.
     
  7. notinlove

    notinlove Regular Member

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    All i can do is be me, whoever that is.
    a good offensive weapon , but i don't think it will server the purpose as a CIWS.
     
  8. sandeepdg

    sandeepdg Senior Member Senior Member

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    @ indian_sukhoi

    Mate, I forgot to add that Kashtan is a combined gun and missile based CIWS system, the only one of its kind in the world. It employs the SA-N-11 missile system with two launchers and 4 ready to fire missiles with a reloading system consisting of 24 ready to fire missiles in storage containers having a range of upto 10 kms. This combined system of guns and missiles gives better protection than any other CIWS system using either missiles or guns only.
     
  9. sandeepdg

    sandeepdg Senior Member Senior Member

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    @ Armand2REP

    Mate, Kashtan is a combined gun and missile system and not an individual gun system. It uses the 9M311 Tungushka missile with a range upto 10 kms along with 2x 30 mm 6 barelled Gatling guns whereas the Goalkeeper uses just a single 7 barelled 30 mm Gatling gun. That means, it has a greater punch than the Goalkeeper system.
     
  10. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    I already mentioned it had missiles. The Grison SAM is the SA-N-11. Kashtan wins overall, but their gun systems are far less accurate than Thales Goalkeeper which is why they need two.
     
  11. slenke

    slenke Regular Member

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    Well, this one has done well in that sorts of tests.
     
  12. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    It didn't prevent the advent of Phalanx or SeaRAM so it wasn't good enough.
     
  13. slenke

    slenke Regular Member

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    Is that so?

    "In September 2003, Bofors Defence AB of Sweden, a wholly owned subsidiary of United Defense, 57mm Mk3 naval gun was selected for use aboard the US Coast Guard's Maritime Security Cutter - Large (WMSL) under the Coast Guard's Deepwater program. The gun was designated EX-57 Mk3 and ultimately the US Navy approved the weapon to be designated as the Mk 110 mod 0.

    The Mk 110 naval gun will fire 3P family of ammunition suitable for engagements against air, sea and shore targets. The Swedish 3P ammunition has been re-designated the Mk 295 mod 0 and will give the Mk 110 naval gun increased tactical flexibility and ammunition effects.

    Currently the US Navy surface combatants rely upon Raytheon's Mk 15 Phalanx 20mm multi-barrel gun as their close-in weapon system (CIWS). The single barrel, larger caliber Mk 110 Mod 0 naval gun selection for DD(X) destroyers shows up that the US Navy is changing its mind in order to counter 21st century threats. In addition, other shipbuilding projects in the United States, such as CG(X), might follow DD(X) selecting Mk 110 gun as CIGS."

    http://www.deagel.com/news/Mk-110-Naval-Gun-Selected-as-DDX-Close-In-Gun-System_n000000392.aspx

    It's more like they are moving away from the Phalanx multi-barrell gun on their new ships using only SeaRAM and the Mk110 gun for close in defence. I do agree that the SeaRAM is better than the Mk110, but they complement eachother fairly well I would say.
     
  14. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Sure, its so good they had to add a Phalanx Blk 1B. clap

    Its more like they are not relying on the Bofors for CIWS but infact using it for surface warfare. Case in point, the NSC (Phalanx) and LCS which also carries SeaRAM.
     
  15. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    may be you can compare them in videos and comment on systems

    Kashtan CIWS



    bofors 57mm Mk3 naval gun[/B
    ]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  16. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    Oerlikon Millennium 35 mm Naval Revolver Gun System



    Goalkeeper CIWS (Netherlands)

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  17. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    Phalanx CIWS (United States)



    Type 730 CIWS (China)

    sorry no video available
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  18. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    The only missile the Bofors is hitting is stationary. Kashtan is good at hitting missiles that aren't actually attacking the ship, but the Thales Goalkeeper is even better than that. Would you be willing to test your system with a live missile? How about two live missiles at once?

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  19. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    yeah good idea, but who is willing to test, Russia, US,,,,,,,,,,, or anyone else
     
  20. sandeepdg

    sandeepdg Senior Member Senior Member

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    Sorry for that, wasn't familiar with the name "Grison", I only knew it as Tungushka ! Accurate or not accurate, the Goalkeeper being a single 7 barelled 30 mm gun is hardly enough to protect against all sorts of anti-ship munitions. By the way how do say that the Kashtan guns are not accurate ? None of this guns have been used in combat from what I know. Is there any performance comparison record available ?
     
  21. sandeepdg

    sandeepdg Senior Member Senior Member

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    Goalkeeper is great gun but the only system that can match the Kashtan's capabilities may be the Phalanx gun along with the SeaRam missiles though I doubt it.
     

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