Church turned into 'temple' after 72 Valmikis reconvert to Hinduism

Discussion in 'Religion & Culture' started by Vishwarupa, Aug 28, 2014.

  1. Vishwarupa

    Vishwarupa Senior Member Senior Member

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    Church turned into 'temple' after 72 Valmikis reconvert to Hinduism

    ALIGARH: A church with a cross in it that belonged to the 7th Day Adventists overnight turned into a temple adorned with a portrait of Shiva after what some Hindu groups in Aligarh termed the "successful ghar wapasi" (reconversion) of 72 Valmikis who had become Christians in 1995.

    There was an elaborate shuddhi karan (purification) ceremony on Tuesday inside the church in Asroi, 30km from Aligarh. Children from the village soon took over the premises and were seen playing in it by afternoon on Wednesday. A cross was allegedly remove from the church and placed outside the gate and a portrait of Shiva installed.

    Khem Chandra, Sangh pracharak and pramukh of Dharam Jagran Vivad in Aligarh, said, "This is called ghar wapasi, not conversion. They left by choice and today they have realized their mistake and want to come back. We welcome them. We can't let our samaj scatter, we have to hold it tight. I have told them that honour comes from within the community and not from outside." Chandra added that in the years that followed their adoption of Christianity, he met heads of the eight Valmiki families numerous times to convince them to reconsider their decision.

    However, as news of the reconversion spread, tension started building up, with sleuths of the Local Intelligence Unit (LIU) converging on the spot. Some villagers told TOI, on condition of anonymity, that the Shiva portrait had been removed and kept inside the house of a local resident. Anil Gaur, one of those who returned to the Hindu fold, said it was because they were unhappy with the caste system that they changed their religion. "But we found ourselves in no better position among Christians," he said. "As Hindus we had no status and were restricted to doing menial jobs, but even after remaining a Christian for 19 years, we saw that no one came to us from their community. There was no celebration of Bada Din (Christmas). The missionaries just built a church for us in the vicinity where some of the villagers got married. That was all."



    Seventy-year-old Rajendra Singh said he, too, was happy to reconvert. "While sleeping outside the church one day I suffered a paralytic attack. I found myself unable to move. It happened last year and since then I have been thinking that it may have been Mata Devi's punishment for abandoning my faith," he claimed.

    Osmond Charles, a lawyer and community leader in Aligarh, isn't convinced though. "Ghar wapasi sounds like a conspiracy," he said. "Sometimes we hear 'love jihad' and now we have 'ghar wapasi'. Is this the sign of a Hindu Rashtra in the making?"

    Father Jonanthan Lal, pastor at City Methodist Church, said, "The 'purification' pooja took place inside the church which belongs to 7th Day Adventists. Such an activity shouldn't have taken place there. Faith is a personal matter but havan inside a church is not."

    Meanwhile, there is a sudden, eerie quiet in Asroi. Villagers hurry inside their houses if they are asked about the reconversion and most say they know nothing about it. The presence of cops has added to their anxiety. "Don't ask anything. I don't know what happened," a young man said, turning away swiftly from a TOI team.

    Church turned into 'temple' after 72 Valmikis reconvert to Hinduism - The Times of India

    why dint the same media report when they were converted 19 years ago. Now is the time to re-harvest the soul and bring back the converted Hindus back.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2014
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  3. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Church turned into 'temple' after 72 Valmikis reconvert to Hinduis

    Those guys who are converting people to Hinduism must first eliminate the caste system to make it more effective. There is no point in converting a tribe if there is no equal status in Hinduism.
    Since Hinduism is dynamic I think it is possible.
     
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  4. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: Church turned into 'temple' after 72 Valmikis reconvert to Hinduis

    The caste system maybe a Hindu problem.

    However, it is ingrained in the Indian psyche, no matter to which religion one can change to escape it.

    It is ingrained in Pakistan too, the folks who claim to be direct descendent and as pure as the Arab steed.

    Converted folks think that they are emancipated by changing the religion, but reality strikes soon. So,e continue and some realise it is of no use.

    Therefore, they return to the original fold.

    When converted or reconverted, external motivation is but axiomatic.

    Political manoeuvring will not change the caste system.

    Education will emancipate people to realise their worth beyond caste.

    That day is close to happening, even one see what the situation was a few years back.

    This must have happened because they wanted it so.

    Or else how did it happen?
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2014
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  5. Eesh

    Eesh Regular Member

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    Re: Church turned into 'temple' after 72 Valmikis reconvert to Hinduis

    Wonder why police and intelligence did not descend when these people were converted to xianity. Why belly ache now? Don't these people have right to come back to Hindu fold? But UP govt thinks NOT, and will try to brow beat them back into xianity.
     
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  6. jus

    jus Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Church turned into 'temple' after 72 Valmikis reconvert to Hinduis

    I have many xian friends ......... Many goras donate Lot of dollars to poor Indians to convert xianity (Social service too).
    So take money convert to xianity then reconvert to Hinduism :pound:

    p.s I never heard any xian(converted from hinduism) BOMBING/KILLING innocent Women&Kids by Shouting JESUS is great :pound:
     
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  7. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: Church turned into 'temple' after 72 Valmikis reconvert to Hinduis

    If one sees the Indian social scene, then there are good reasons why conversions have taken place and the police and intelligence has not taken it too seriously.

    It is because of odd form of 'secularism' that has been slowly and carefully ingrained by the Indian politics spearhead by the Vote Bank necessity of the Congress Party, made more effective after the defeat of the Congress after the Emergency. That debacle was a wake up call for the Congress and they seized it with an overdose of populist politics, and encouraging commitment to the Govt (read Congress Party) giving purchase to having a committed bureaucracy, committed Judiciary and committed Police.

    Hence, the instruments of power were committed to the Govt (read Congress party).

    It got so ingrained that not only the committed personnel of the instruments of State power got brainwashed, but also the Congress workers and they were convinced that secularism meant appeasement and turning a blind eye to anything incorrect done by the minority and to be pro majority was a shame on the 'beauty' of being 'secular'.

    If this 'secularism' was kept within a decent parameter, then all would be well.

    However, this 'secularism' crossed all boundaries and when castes were also brought into play, the discontent aggrandised.

    Now, the share of the reservation, appeasement and consequent perks and privileges pie has shrunk for all those who deserved and all those who demanded (mostly unfairly) got.

    Hence the strife started manifesting itself and got aggravated as the pie shrunk, owing to the political compulsions of the Party in power i.e. the Congress, even in its new found avatar as the UPA with the sole director ex Italy, who is a Roman Catholic, with no embellishment of India beyond her cotton saree .

    Mouthing of pious platitudes by this woman and her Party did not cut ice any more.

    On the other hand, capitalising on this discontent of the shrinking pie of reservation, and privileges and perks that went with it, and the horrid neglect of the real deprived people i.e. the SC and ST, the various elements of the Hindu frontrunner organisations went into a fevered riposte reaping results, even if marginal because the heavy hand of the Union Govt (UPA/Congress) was always there to control the 'sabotage' of the vote bank mantra.

    The backlash of discontent has been profitably capitalised and seen the BJP ride and roar into power. It would be disingenuous to believe it was a united discontented Hindu backlash. If that were so, the mandate would not be that resounding.

    It was a backlash of all.

    High caste Hindus found that they were totally at the mercy of God since the reservation took away the maximum chunk,and they were scrambling for the Genreal quota if not taken away by the better educated deprived, The OBCs felt that they were not getting their due, the SC/ST were floundering since they has become a lost cause, the Muslims felt that they have not been able to extract enough excepting false promises that never fructified and the other minorities/ They were never in the race (since their votes did not matter).

    Now, with the BJP in power, the Hindus seem to have found their 'voice' and so these things are happening where 'wrongs' are being 'righted' even though that is debatable.

    Those political parties that are threatened that they ground is slipping under their feet and now at sixes and sevens to reinvent 'secularism' in a new avatar. Their success is a million dollar question. Akhilesh seems to have seen his good days drawing a sunset and fading out like a western cowboy movie. He is a cowboy by caste also and so appropriate.

    The end result is that India is in for a long haul of reinterpreting 'secularism' and the turbulence that goes with it.

    All one can hope is all castes, communities and religious denominations are taken on board and India becomes truly secular and not pseudo secular as it has been throughout history after Independence.

    Religion is to be practised, but only at home and the place of worship; and not in common space, just like smoking is not permitted in public place.

    Smoking kills and religious frenzy whipping does the same.
     
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  8. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Church turned into 'temple' after 72 Valmikis reconvert to Hinduis

    Mr @Ray I do not think reservations will go away , Reservations will be implemented until social equality is achieved. It is a slow process.
     
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  9. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: Church turned into 'temple' after 72 Valmikis reconvert to Hinduis

    You are right.

    It is a Vote Bank winner.

    However, with education emancipation will dawn.

    It will take time, but I hope it comes before I fade.

    Already we see economic power is becoming the arbiter and not caste.

    Education and thus good paying jobs will decide the day.
     
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  10. kseeker

    kseeker Retired

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    ALIGARH: A church with a cross in it that belonged to the 7th Day Adventists overnight turned into a temple adorned with a portrait of Shiva after what some Hindu groups in Aligarh termed the "successful ghar wapasi" (reconversion) of 72 Valmikis who had become Christians in 1995.

    There was an elaborate shuddhi karan (purification) ceremony on Tuesday inside the church in Asroi, 30km from Aligarh. Children from the village soon took over the premises and were seen playing in it by afternoon on Wednesday. A cross was allegedly remove from the church and placed outside the gate and a portrait of Shiva installed.

    Khem Chandra, Sangh pracharak and pramukh of Dharam Jagran Vivad in Aligarh, said, "This is called ghar wapasi, not conversion. They left by choice and today they have realized their mistake and want to come back. We welcome them. We can't let our samaj scatter, we have to hold it tight. I have told them that honour comes from within the community and not from outside." Chandra added that in the years that followed their adoption of Christianity, he met heads of the eight Valmiki families numerous times to convince them to reconsider their decision.

    However, as news of the reconversion spread, tension started building up, with sleuths of the Local Intelligence Unit (LIU) converging on the spot. Some villagers told TOI, on condition of anonymity, that the Shiva portrait had been removed and kept inside the house of a local resident. Anil Gaur, one of those who returned to the Hindu fold, said it was because they were unhappy with the caste system that they changed their religion. "But we found ourselves in no better position among Christians," he said. "As Hindus we had no status and were restricted to doing menial jobs, but even after remaining a Christian for 19 years, we saw that no one came to us from their community. There was no celebration of Bada Din (Christmas). The missionaries just built a church for us in the vicinity where some of the villagers got married. That was all."

    Seventy-year-old Rajendra Singh said he, too, was happy to reconvert. "While sleeping outside the church one day I suffered a paralytic attack. I found myself unable to move. It happened last year and since then I have been thinking that it may have been Mata Devi's punishment for abandoning my faith," he claimed.

    Osmond Charles, a lawyer and community leader in Aligarh, isn't convinced though. "Ghar wapasi sounds like a conspiracy," he said. "Sometimes we hear 'love jihad' and now we have 'ghar wapasi'. Is this the sign of a Hindu Rashtra in the making?"

    Father Jonanthan Lal, pastor at City Methodist Church, said, "The 'purification' pooja took place inside the church which belongs to 7th Day Adventists. Such an activity shouldn't have taken place there. Faith is a personal matter but havan inside a church is not."

    Meanwhile, there is a sudden, eerie quiet in Asroi. Villagers hurry inside their houses if they are asked about the reconversion and most say they know nothing about it. The presence of cops has added to their anxiety. "Don't ask anything. I don't know what happened," a young man said, turning away swiftly from a TOI team.


    Church turned into 'temple' after 72 Valmikis reconvert to Hinduism - The Times of India
     
  11. kseeker

    kseeker Retired

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    Re: Church turned into 'temple' after 72 Valmikis reconvert to Hinduis

    Missionary blokes must be seething with anger after hearing this news :peace:
     
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  12. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Church turned into 'temple' after 72 Valmikis reconvert to Hinduis

    Dude there is already an thread running on this topic, please check.
     
  13. kseeker

    kseeker Retired

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    Re: Church turned into 'temple' after 72 Valmikis reconvert to Hinduis

    Oops! I have requested mods to delete or merge this thread with another thread.
     
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  14. Eesh

    Eesh Regular Member

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    Re: Church turned into 'temple' after 72 Valmikis reconvert to Hinduis

    Of course, of course. Those Nagas, Mizos etc do not count or do they?

    Mind you top leadership of LTTE was xian, converted. Top leadership of Naxals are xian, converted.
     
  15. jus

    jus Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Church turned into 'temple' after 72 Valmikis reconvert to Hinduis

    Of course, of course. Those Nagas, Mizos,LTTE never Bombed other 'coz THEY are KAFIR'S/Non believers, it is just ethnic
    MAD RASSA education :lol::lol:
     
  16. VIP

    VIP Ultra Nationalist Senior Member

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    Re: Church turned into 'temple' after 72 Valmikis reconvert to Hinduis

    Jonathan Lal....:lol: I see many Christians converted from Hinduism because of caste but they seriously don't follow it, they even celebrate Hindu festivals happily instead of Christmas. It's just a vote bank politics, this should be stopped as it's for political gain only.
     
  17. VIP

    VIP Ultra Nationalist Senior Member

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    Re: Church turned into 'temple' after 72 Valmikis reconvert to Hinduis

    BJP should actually cut these idiots loose from having benefits of reservation and should not interfere this process of conversation, I bet these people will convert themselves back or will refuse to convert. These people mustn't get benefits of reservation and see the magic.
     
  18. Eesh

    Eesh Regular Member

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    Re: Church turned into 'temple' after 72 Valmikis reconvert to Hinduis

    AS if violence on ethnic grounds is better.
     
  19. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Re: Church turned into 'temple' after 72 Valmikis reconvert to Hinduis

    Ok wth with the caste system here?

    Did you geniuses think that Indian Christians dont follow/observe caste system?:lol:
     
  20. sesha_maruthi27

    sesha_maruthi27 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Church turned into 'temple' after 72 Valmikis reconvert to Hinduis

    A guy named Sadhu selvaraj is very busy in spreading the news that JESUS is coming and his second coming is not too far.

    Another website which is worldministries.org, i am not clear about the website, but the website says, "OH INDIA AND INDIAN PEOPLE, YOU HAVE LESS TIME. REPENT BEFORE JESUS AND ACCEPT JESUS AS YOUR GOD. IF NOT YOU WILL BE SHOWN NO MERCY BY GOD. YOU ALL ARE SINNERS"........

    Prophecy to India
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2014
  21. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Church turned into 'temple' after 72 Valmikis reconvert to Hinduis

    Creatures who are born on earth have their rights and duties, even during the times of Jesus or Prophet Mohammed there is considerable opposition to their faiths. It is absolutely ridiculous to think this earth which was created as a diverse world must become a world of single faith.

    Just like creatures and people are diverse and co exist each other, faiths,cultures and identities should co exist.

    Any way a uniform world is a boring world or when one faith becomes too big cracks will appear inside it.
     
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