Christianity finds a fulcrum in Asia

[amoy]

Is there any religion not "foreign" in China? Even that "indigenous" Taoism contains elements of Buddhism and many Chinese can't tell them apart but worship them together. Or many others simply regard them as "superstition".

Rather than "controlling" religion (be it foreign or home grown), IMO the gvmt has to prioritize tackling root cause i.e. social problems prompting the "revival" of religions. FLG for example, prospered in the backdrops of massive unemployment as a result of many mal-functioning state-run enterprises being spinned off or privatized (esp. in Manchuria where FLG was originated). FLG ran rampant in a veneer of traditional Buddhism+Taoism+ traditional Kungfu (Gong). Many who were desperate then turned to FLG for spiritual comfort and worshipped Guru Li in possession of "supernatual power" (ranking above "Buddha") as the saviour at the doomsday.

Besides what're the "mainstream" values in China nowadays to fill the vacuum? renaissance of Confucian teachings? Communism? Controlling or regulating (though necessary) attends to the superficials (symptoms) but neglects the essentials

Shaolin Temple goes commercial
Shi Yongxin, the abbot of Shaolin Temple, widely considered the birthplace of Chinese Kung Fu, spends most of his day greeting corporate executives, government officials and friends from all over the world and dealing with dinner invitations and business instead of shepherding all disciples.


The abbot of the Shaolin temple in the central province of Henan, Shi Yongxin, stands beside a spectacular sports sedan worth 1 million Yuan (US$125, 000), which is awarded to him for his contributions to the local tourism industry.

When Henan officials presented Shi with a spectacular sports sedan valued at one million yuan (US$125, 000) for his contributions to the local tourism industry, it raised increasing doubts that Shi is a monk who is dedicated to fortune rather than religion, the Beijing News Reported on August 30.

"I resorted to using commercialization to promote Shaolin culture," Shi says. "I believe that people who concentrate on hard work can understand me."

Displaying photos of top Chinese leaders such as Jiang Zemin, Li Peng and Wu Yi along with Russian President Vladimir Putin and former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, Shaolin Temple is marked with Shi's commercialization efforts.

Shi was admitted to the temple in 1981 when it was in a total recession with dozens of monks staying at the temple, where they lived on 28 mu (1.86 hectares) of farmland. Nine of them were elderly.

He began to serve as abbot in 1987, five years after the internationally acclaimed wuxia (literally meaning martial arts) movie 'Shaolin Temple', starring Hong Kong star Jet Li, which put the temple in the international spotlight.

Shi has been trying to strengthen cultural exchange and promote the reputation of the temple since 1987, according to the paper.

"I aim to make Shaolin culture something people want to study," Shi says.

The abbot has set up research cooperatives with dozens of mainland universities, including Tsinghua University and Peking University.

He has continued his cultural exchange with the international community.

Shi has purchased 12 square kilometers of land in Australia and is prepared to build a Shaolin martial arts cultural center he says will be built according to traditional Chinese construction methods.

"It may serve as a construction museum or an educational base," Shi says.

Shi's moves have sparked criticism nationwide from media reports to Internet online posts.

"They have forgotten what their purpose is and are concentrating on what they shouldn't do," Xinhua quoted an online post as saying.

Shi has moved to build a Shaolin medicine office in the southwest area of the temple, and he is stepping up efforts to set up a Shaolin museum, according to the paper.

"Before I can do anything the temple needs to acquire more land," Shi says.

"The expanded Shaolin temple is in need of land and I'm considering building a museum, a practice hall, a Buddhist palace a science exchange center."

 

[Ray]

Buddhism as practised in China is not the same as Buddhism practised elsewhere. Therefore, the religion has over the year been Sinicized and is acceptable.

I am not too sure if Taoism or Confucius' philosophy is foreign to China or if it is an import. I don't think so and I feel it is indigenous to China.

The 'power centres' of the above mentioned religion is in China.

On the other hand the power centres of Christianity or Islam is not in China but elsewhere and so the danger of foreign influences subverting the Chinese way of life and governance is very live.

Hence, these religions are under strict control of the Chinese Govt to ensure that they do not deviate from the philosophy that is being propounded by the Chinese Govt.

Shaolin Monastery was founded by Buddhabhadra, and Indian Buddhist monk also known as Batuo or Fotuo in Chinese. But, over the years, it has been Sinicized and Kung Fu which started here is taken to be Chinese Martial Art!

 

[ejazr]

Confucism is based on the philosophy of a Chinese philosopher Confucious in the 500-400BC era.

In any case, even if China does become the largest Christian nation, it will not lose its inherent Chinese nationalism. Although if the CCP tries to supress Christianity brutally it might get a backlash as it has experienced due to supression of Islam in Xinjiang and Buddhism in Tibet. Although ethnic factors also play a role in the Tibetan and Uighur unrest.

 

[Ray]

I really wonder if those who are Christians in China are that serious Christians as they are elsewhere.

 

[johnee]

The missionaries backed by their funders have created local backers and all these elements are harvesting quite well. Obviously, the asia is the market to beat. And India and China are in the focus...

 

[johnee]

My sense is that the present religions will die out or perhaps diminish, but religiosity and spirituality will always have takers. So, new religions will rise and new prophets will come. Of course, they too will perish in course of time to give place to newer religions.

 

[Armand2REP]

I really wonder if those who are Christians in China are that serious Christians as they are elsewhere.

You don't come to Christ lightly in China... Especially if you practice outside the state sanctioned church as most do.

My sense is that the present religions will die out or perhaps diminish, but religiosity and spirituality will always have takers. So, new religions will rise and new prophets will come. Of course, they too will perish in course of time to give place to newer religions.

99%+ of the world believes in some higher power and that will never change. Human's are wired to spiritual beliefs.

 

[mattster]

I know enough about Chinese to say that practical considerations of "bread and butter" will always trump religion and faith.

But having said that - living in a CCP controlled universe for almost 3/4 century now, there are at least 3 generations of Chinese who have been denied religious freedom in the way that we in democratic societies experience it. Now, combine this with the unique Chinese capacity for extreme rapaciousness, greed, and the culture of materialism that is taking over in Mainland China - you now have the perfect ingredients in just the right mix for a huge shift among people looking for some spiritual solace from their daily existence in a cut-throat society.

If that is not enough, add a another problem that is happening all over the world but more so in places like China - the huge gap between urban rich and rural poor.

Anyone who embraces Christian values is bound to be somewhat nauseated by the idea of the Communism. Eventually this will lead to more people wanting more personal, political, and religious freedoms and that is a threat to the CCP. Either the CCP gives up ground and opens up or there is going to be major trouble like in the Middle-East now.

There is no way around it !!

 

[johnee]

99%+ of the world believes in some higher power and that will never change. Human's are wired to spiritual beliefs.

Agreed. To add to it, the world is not fair. Only spirituality can give some solace to many.

Also, there is other 1% (or maybe 10%) of humanity that is hard-wired to not believe in any higher power. So, athiesm will also not die...

 

[DMF]

Religion is not a big deal for the majority Chinese people, since the ancient time, the religion is not main power in the society, the indigenous Taoism never be come a main stream, but fairy stories, Buddhism are imported, popular always, but not powerful.
But Chinese take the Christian as a part of western culture, Chinese is full westernized Christmas are celebrated by almost all the college and university students with a dance party or go to church at night , as some social occasion mostly, very few people really read a bible even they claim they are Christians
But more and more people go to church, because the communist party is diminishing, the people needs some kind of organization to belong to and get some warmth there.
Chinese people will never take the Islam,. The Islam only for some ethnic groups, they come to china from middle Asia and Arab countries since the old times, and settle down in China, and bring Islam with them, the majority Han people will not take this religion. because Chinese people believe the Arabs are backward, so the same of Islam religion, even some times get tensions with the Muslims because of pigs. And naturally even no body understand what is a Islam, not body like it. Even people know that Arabs helped China so much by keeping the USA busy, hehe

 

[Ray]

Religion is not a big deal for the majority Chinese people, since the ancient time, the religion is not main power in the society, the indigenous Taoism never be come a main stream, but fairy stories, Buddhism are imported, popular always, but not powerful.
But Chinese take the Christian as a part of western culture, Chinese is full westernized Christmas are celebrated by almost all the college and university students with a dance party or go to church at night , as some social occasion mostly, very few people really read a bible even they claim they are Christians
But more and more people go to church, because the communist party is diminishing, the people needs some kind of organization to belong to and get some warmth there.
Chinese people will never take the Islam,. The Islam only for some ethnic groups, they come to china from middle Asia and Arab countries since the old times, and settle down in China, and bring Islam with them, the majority Han people will not take this religion. because Chinese people believe the Arabs are backward, so the same of Islam religion, even some times get tensions with the Muslims because of pigs. And naturally even no body understand what is a Islam, not body like it. Even people know that Arabs helped China so much by keeping the USA busy, hehe

The comments on Christianity is understandable.

However, on Islam, if you are talking about the Huis, then yes, they are those who came along the Silk Route and settled down. They have been assimilated and are practically Hans and they would be Hans but not so, because they hang onto their religion with dear life and all their might and because it is haram in their religion to eat pig (the non vegetarian staple of the Hans) or cohabit with pigs in their vicinity.

It is exactly what I have been trying to convey. Muslims are quite steeped in religion and will not under any circumstance forsake their religion.

Therefore, try as the Chinese govt might, the Uyghurs will never change their religion and since they are a sizeable lot, with resist the Hans all the times to come.

As far as Uyghurs are concerned was it not that in 934 came the arrival of Islam and the Uyghur Kingdom split in two - Muslim Karakhanids and Buddhist Karakhoja?

Why should the Chinese be so inimical to Islam?

China has excellent relationship with Pakistan and other Islamic countries.

 

[mattster]

Religion is not a big deal for the majority Chinese people, since the ancient time, the religion is not main power in the society, the indigenous Taoism never be come a main stream, but fairy stories, Buddhism are imported, popular always, but not powerful.
But Chinese take the Christian as a part of western culture, Chinese is full westernized Christmas are celebrated by almost all the college and university students with a dance party or go to church at night , as some social occasion mostly, very few people really read a bible even they claim they are Christians
But more and more people go to church, because the communist party is diminishing, the people needs some kind of organization to belong to and get some warmth there.
Chinese people will never take the Islam,. The Islam only for some ethnic groups, they come to china from middle Asia and Arab countries since the old times, and settle down in China, and bring Islam with them, the majority Han people will not take this religion. because Chinese people believe the Arabs are backward, so the same of Islam religion, even some times get tensions with the Muslims because of pigs. And naturally even no body understand what is a Islam, not body like it. Even people know that Arabs helped China so much by keeping the USA busy, hehe

@DMF.....I accept much of what you say. I too have seen the same thing in Chinese communities outside China.

So here is my question: If you know that the Chinese are not very religious in nature - then why is the CCP so scared of Falun Gong people ? Why are they so scared of home churches run by Christians that are not registered with the state ? What about the rules and regulation against the Muslims in Xinjiang ??

China is the first country in the world to kidnap a 5 year old boy about 15 years ago who was selected Panchang Lama by the current Dalai Lama. They then appointed their own young boy as the Panchang Lama. This boy would have been groomed to be the next Dalai Lama. No one has heard anything about where the original Panchang Lama is ?

Can you imagine a country that kidnaps a 5 year old boy ??

If Chinese dont care about religion - then why is your all mighty CCP so scared of a rag-tag small-time group of Falun Gong practioners, and why is the CCP kidnapping 5 year old boys


Do you see why its so hard to respect China - you want to be a superpower, but sight of your own shadow makes you shiver !


PS: In the US - we have Falun Gong, Hari Krishnas, Mormons, Sufis, Hindus, Buddhists, Shia, Sunni, Bahais, Ahmedis, Yoga practioners( almost 25% of the US), Christians of every denomination and stripe, and even Wiccans, Pagans, and Witches.
No one is afraid of anyone else.

 

[Rahul92]

Unlike India China Will Act very tough on religion preachers

 

[DMF]

TO RAY
For the Hui people in China, the marriage between Han and Hui is very common, also it is believed that the maternal line of Hui are Hui Chinese. Later 1980s, my first job was on the rail way, my group have about 10 workers, 3 of them are Hui people, including my master, he was a communist member. The other two young Hui people were very heavy drinking. With them never get sense of a religion, I never see one of pray, or heard of Ramadan, never see my Hui friend miss one meal, but one of them take one day off with permission to celebrate the festival of fast- break by drinking alcohol At that time I only know they are Hui, but don't know they are Muslim. But I only eat their food, many times, for lunch, they not eat my food. We go out to drink together.
But now, some Hui people become much more religious then before, especially in north east arear.
I think this will divide people in deferent groups.

In China, I know some people managed to change to be Hui, the get some advantages, to get some point for the higher education examination and can have more than one children.

 

[DMF]

to MATTSTER
Falun Gong, is a kind of Qi Gong, you practice the breath and limps,and do some meditation, Qi Gong is not a religion, in 1980s and 1990's many many people practice Qi Gong, falun Gong emerged dvery late, but quickly become a big organization. Qi Gong are derived from Buddhism and Taoism, I know some about it, my parents practice Tibet kaguy branch, the white hat branch, my father know some people have super natural power, can detect the words you write on a paper in his mouth, and can bend the seconds needle of your watch by blowing air to the watch, I saw this show by my own eyes.
All the qi gong have the following thing involved such as super natural power, get to be healthy without doctors, even survive cancers, get connection with the Buddha or heavenly Gods, can see the ghost, fairy fox, fairy snake, contribute some money to Buddha or representative of Gods you will in return be awarded with a big fortune, Falung gong get too much followers, it really a big mass .
I think the government crack down the Falong Gong, mostly because it because such a big mass, Fonglun Gong one time even surrounded ZHONGNANHAI. You know in 1851, china have big rebellion, this rebellion organization was by the name "worship God", and later the leader make himself the "elder brother of God", and then one of his powerful general make himself "father of God", the general because the kings father, when the two meet each other, the formality because very complicated. this war went on for 14years, millions of people dead, and China become very week. The communist part not like to see a civil mass to mass up.
For young Panchang Lama，with other 4 young children, was chosen in Beijing by the Lamas from Tibet, when he was decided to be the new Panchang Lama, one of master lama telephoned to Dalai lama, and Dalai lama make the announcement first, so the China government were cornered, they change a new boy to be Panchang lama, the 5 year old child, were kept some place, this is very sad incident. Also a third most important lama run away from china when he was 15years old. The Tibet people not satisfied with the central government. But you can see, religion is only a political tool.