Christian yoga

Discussion in 'Religion & Culture' started by Raj30, Jul 31, 2012.

  1. Raj30

    Raj30 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Welcome to Scripture Yoga
     
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  3. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    Cant any patents or trademarks be filed on the name "Yoga" to prevent these scavengers from (mis)using it ?

    On a .lighter note...

    [​IMG]

    :laugh:
     
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  4. Raj30

    Raj30 Senior Member Senior Member

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    ^^
    India patents 1,300 yoga moves | World | RIA Novosti

     
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  5. A chauhan

    A chauhan "अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l" Senior Member

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    Christian Yoga :pound: :rofl: OMG! Secular Yoga classes :))

    I remember what Pope said once that "Yoga is a work of devil" now it has become a work of Jesus follower :rofl:
     
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  6. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    ^^ I mean not only the postures, but also the name "yoga" must be patented/trademarked as an Indian brand and anybody using it like xtian yoga or muslim yooga or bahai yoga must pay royalty to the Rameshwaram temple where Patanjali (who gave us Yoga) is in a Jeeva samaddhi. :rolleyes:
     
  7. arkem8

    arkem8 Regular Member

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    Scavengers....
     
  8. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    I believe Christ learnt yoga when he visited Kashmir. It was his yogic powers which found expression in "Sermon on the Mount" - I said let there be light and there was light.
    Sufies learnt yoga from Hindu influences.
    yoga is secretly practiced in all churches by the priests and even by the jews. Yoga is a way of life for Buddhists and Jains. so do not claim exclusivity. Patanjali's Yoga Sutram is the most ancient and authentic source but the originator of yoga is said to be Hiranyagarbha (Brhma) himself. Hath yoga is but a minuscule part of yoga.

    Do not forget it it was a Christian Chief justice of caltcutta high court who greatly popularised Indian concept of yoga and Tantra vide his numerous books chiefly being " Garland of Letters". His name was Sir John Woodroffe; in guise used to write by the name of Aurthor Avalon.

    Without reading him study of Indian yoga and Tantra is incomplete.

    Any one interested read this :
    Woodroffe - The Garland of Letters.


    It is called "Varnamala" the origin of all sounds and the basic of yogic practices and mantra shastra.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2012
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  9. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Jesus walked over water (Sea of Galilee).

    Matthew 14:22-33
    New International Version (NIV)

    \22 Immediately Jesus made the disciples get into the boat and go on ahead of him to the other side, while he dismissed the crowd. 23 After he had dismissed them, he went up on a mountainside by himself to pray. Later that night, he was there alone, 24 and the boat was already a considerable distance from land, buffeted by the waves because the wind was against it.

    25 Shortly before dawn Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. 26 When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. “It’s a ghost,” they said, and cried out in fear.

    27 But Jesus immediately said to them: “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.”

    28 “Lord, if it’s you,” Peter replied, “tell me to come to you on the water.”

    29 “Come,” he said.

    Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30 But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!”

    31 Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. “You of little faith,” he said, “why did you doubt?”

    32 And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. 33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”
    ********************************

    Hatha Yoga is said to give the power to walk over water.

    If it is true that Jesus walked over water, then he was a Hatha Yogic man.

    He images resembles that of a Kashmiri.
     
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  10. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    Indian advocates must read following:

    Tantra Shastra - John Woodroffe
    Woodroffe - The Garland of Letters.

    Avalon, Arthur [Sir John Woodroffe - Kularnava Tantra

    Bharata Shakti - [1917] Woodroffe, John
    Sakti and Sakta John WoodroffeSir John Woodroffe (Arthur Avalon)
    - Ma Ha Nirvana Tantra (Tantra of the Great Liberation)...
    Sir John Woodroffe - The World as Power - Power as Life
    Sir John Woodroffe - Hymn to Kali - Karpuradi Stotra (1953) English]
    The Seed of Race, An Essay on India Education - [1919] Woodroffe, John
    The Seed of Race, An Essay on India Education - [1919] Woodroffe, John
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2012
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  11. ani82v

    ani82v Senior Member Senior Member

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    In a bike servicing shop, I have also seen Christian Yantra carved on metal plate, just like Shree Yantra, framed on the wall. :))

     
  12. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    With all due respect sir, this is baloney. My intention is not to ridicule or sully Christian beliefs, however retrofitting improbable scenarios to validate a clearly artificial modern construct like "Christian Yoga" is simply pointless.

    Christian Yoga exists because the practice of yoga caught on like wildfire in the USA due to its insurmountable benefits which in turn made conservative Christian groups here extremely insecure. It would have been fine if yoga was just a fad among skinny white girls in major metropolises, but it didn't remain that way. Since yoga's benefits extend to the entire societal spectrum from young children with developmental disorders to partially ambulatory senior citizens, the practice permeated through the entire population. Now insecure pastors around the country were convinced that yoga was a ploy to divert people away from Christianity (a ludicrous notion really) and so they tried a smear campaign, but that didn't work because people were not willing to give up something that clearly benefited them. And then lo and behold... Christian yoga was born.... born from the school of If you can't beat em, join em.

    I personally don't have a problem with any of this, if someone is going to benefit from yoga by calling a set of exercises "son salutations" instead of "sun salutations" so be it. But there's no point whatsoever in obfuscating commonly known facts to validate something that is entirely artificial.

    Again, my intention is not to single out Christianity, everyone does this. I have written numerous posts about how insecurities within Indian culture leads to comical mental gymnastics, it is only fair that I mention that American culture isn't immune to similar follies.
     
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  13. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    What would be the point of obtaining these trademarks in the name of Hinduism? All cultures around the world cultivate awesome ideas and knowledge which have empirical benefits, and subsequently all other cultures who get access to these ideas incorporate it into their collective to improve it. This is how life works, successful societies always absorb good ideas from others to strengthen themselves, those who refuse to do this end up like Afghanistan. What would be the point of Italians and Greeks holding patents for the concepts of modern governance? Would it be feasible to pay Gutenberg royalties for every printed piece of paper? All of us who live in amazing cities (that have a functional infrastructure) enjoy the benefits of urban planning, yet we do not pay dues to the memory of the Indus valley civilization; just like we can't pay up to the Western world for all its ideas which now define modernity.

    Don't get me wrong, intellectual property rights are very important, particularly for societies that wish to make scientific advances and industrialize. However there are limits to what ideas can or can't be patented and we just have to be reasonable about it. Sure, Bikram Choudhary could crank up the thermostat in a yoga studio and charge money, but his desire to indefinitely receive royalties is simply unreasonable.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2012
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  14. Ancient Land

    Ancient Land Regular Member

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    I visit my GP here in Melbourne who happens to be an Egyptian Christian (whose Medical Centre is named after a Christian Saint from Egypt) and have good chats whenever I visit him. I'm Hindu, and I inquire about his thoughts on world religions. He's a very religious man (unusual for a doctor!). Whenever I bring up the topic of Yoga and would it benefit me (since he mentions to me that my BP is slightly above the normal range for my age), he goes berserk and gets into a heated discussion saying all forms of worshipping God by closing ones eyes is devil's work, especially the Eastern Philosophies. I always have a good laugh and think - now, its his BP which has shot up.
    Back to the point, to label Yoga as "Christian Yoga" in my opinion, is mischievous by the Christian advocates. Agreed, Yoga is for all humanity. No doubt about it. There are many things and ideas which had Hindu origins, highly plagiarised today.
     
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  15. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    I get the jist you are trying to convey, but I disagree with that.

    You had mentioned that like it is not possible to pay royalty to Gutenberg for every piece of paper printed, yoga also cannot be patented. Thats a wrong analogy. Primarily because no one claimed that they invented printing nor are they trying to appropriate the credit due to Gutenberg. But this Christian Yoga, much like the "Yesu namaskar" is nothing but appropriating Indian cultural values and knowledge and re-packaging it as a western/christian construct so as not to offend the sensibilities of the Lord's flock.

    You also mentioned about other examples like Indus valley urban planning. Again the difference is while those have influenced or ,at best, served as a template for people from later generation/other civilizations to work on and modify it, putting their own ideas also into it, this Christian Yoga has nothing original about it....Just learn Yoga postures and change the nomenclature to Christian Yoga....at the most the change is instead of chanting "Om", they chant "yahweh". That is to it. That is plagiarizing in the most crude way.

    Practise Yoga as much as you want, that is one of India's great contributions to this world, but my point is plagiarizing it should be banned and people practising Yoga must know who contributed this to the world. It's India and not some "St." in Vatican.

    I'm damn sure that the Chinese would not be happy if some american yahoo comes and teaches Christian Kung Fu !
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2012
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  16. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    The problem is that if you start drawing lists of whose cultural values are practiced by whom without paying homage, it would be total chaos. India for instance would be far, far more indebted to Western institutions than the other way round. Virtually all aspects of modernity (both material and ideas) are Western, and these things have benefited India tremendously. Take for instance modern education, which has changed India's fortunes, this concept originally came from Christian missionary schools, many of which operate to this day. This mind you is not just in India, but the world over, including the West. American university education, the finest form of academic exercise also originated from various Judeo Christian institutions, particularly seminaries. Many Indian movers and shakers of today's economy obtain a modern Western education and use those principles to build excellent Indian enterprises. Should there be direct attribution to the church? Should all successful Harvard graduates pay tribute to the Unitarian church? Of course not.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with lifting positive cultural attributes of others and repackaging them to fit one's needs. Thanks to the founders of modern India the fantastic concept of modern education was co opted by India's board of education and made into the corner stone of India's knowledge base. Although the medium of the original concept was the English language, the ideas were translated into all regional languages to suffice the needs of Indians all over the country. Needless to say it has worked wonders (at least in the places where it has actually been implemented). Pakistan on the other hand chose to adopt the puritan Sunni- salafist Islamic model of education in the form of madrassas which are inexorably attached to their original Saudi/Islamic roots. The results speak for themselves. The mistake was that the Pakistani founders did not take ideas and reformat them to fit their own needs, instead they chose to adopt a model that is meticulously kept in its original format to resonate the link to Islam.

    You mentioned Kung fu, all martial arts have been repackaged in the US and turned into a massive enterprise that is MMA. No Chinese or Brazialians have come forward yet demanding tributes for Kung fu or capoeira, and even if they did, nobody would pay heed because it would be illogical.

    I have no problem with Christians wanting to invent Christian yoga by changing chants to reflect their dogma. What is wrong however (albeit not by law) is to retrospectively reinvent history by claiming that Jesus was a Kashmiri and went to India and learned yoga. Sorry, but that's just total hogwash.

    Indians have to rid themselves of this obsession of demanding credit for ideas that originated in India (or what they think originated in India) or were espoused by Indians elsewhere. Because firstly as I said before when it comes to the give and take of ideas, India is in a massive deficit. Also it makes Indians look hypocritical when their pharmaceutical industry for instance- blatantly violates intellectual property rights in order to suffice their needs... which I totally understand because science should benefit all of humanity. The Indian entertainment industry has been straight up picking up movies and songs line by line from their western counterparts, now that's plagiarism because contemporary artists deserve credit for their originality. Also most Indians are under the impression that homeopathy is an Indian invention, and although the practice is widespread there is no credit given to the Germans. I see no problem whatsoever with Indian generics which help the poor all over the world or with homeopathy (unless it interferes with more helpful treatment), but it seriously weakens the stance of demanding credit for old Indian ideas. I think it's far better to focus on contributing new ideas than obsessing over the old ones.
     
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  17. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    The same thing has happens with Ayurveda. Now they are earning money by adding some self invented sophistications and saying It western herbal science.

    Vatican tried to copy concept of Islamic banking but failed.

    Yoga has to patented by any authority on Ayurveda in India if there is any because it originates primarily from Atharvaveda. It was then further practised, detailed and conceptualized by different ''Munis'' coming from a specific hierarchy who continue to practise that knowledge to help preserve the health of healthy and cure disease of the sick.

    People are free to use it but things should be set in perspective, definitions per its etymology and credits where its due.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2012
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  18. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    thank you very very much for this information - ive been a christian all my life but never known this - i shall be looking this up on google etc , so any further info you may have would be most welcome - please keep posting on this topic .
     
  19. blank_quest

    blank_quest Senior Member Senior Member

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  20. Ancient Land

    Ancient Land Regular Member

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    Yoga, in all of its forms, being popular as it is now in the West and generating billions of dollars worth of revenue for the institutes that run them is no doubt a phenomenon. Imagine, if practitioners there started calling it "Christian Yoga" and thus diluting its very efficacy in imparting genuine, practical health benefits, not to mention the spiritual calmness that comes unconditionally with its practice. Say, after 50, 100, 200 years people there get used to the term Yoga as Christian, then it definitely connotes that it must have originated in Christianity. This would distort the real historical origins of this ancient practice of complete mind/body exercise discipline which began in India thousands of years ago.
    Couple of years back, a friend of mine, Geoff, loaned me a book on mathematics (the title eludes me, because I was determined not to read it) written by an Australian author depicting 50 or 100 great mathematicians of all time. Yep, most of the Indians can guess here - not a single Indian mathematician figured in the book. Geoff is a Machine Tools sales guy and I was his prospective customer - somehow we would discuss maths (his son was doing a major in maths). I gave a quick look over and immediately drew his attention - I complained that not one Indian great mathematician figured in the book and there are many worthy of making the cut into that list. I started to give off some names - Apasthamba, Aryabhatta, Bhaskara 1 & 2, Neelkanta Somayaji, Madhava of Kerala who developed the infinite series before Newton & Leibnitz! The great Srinivasa Ramanujan too did not figure in that book. To some modern mathematicians he is the greatest and certainly in the all time top 3. I was actually furious at these glaring ommissions. And thousands read such books without ever knowing some of the other truly great mathematicians (who happen to be Indians).
    Yes, there is a real need to protect Yoga from the few who would play a big part in distorting it, and its history, over time.
     
  21. lcatejas

    lcatejas Regular Member

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    You will get best teacher's for this ... Jaganmohan reddy and his family :rofl:
     

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