Chinese troops too close for India's comfort, warns top general

[sandeepdg]

That's an awfully big assumption you're making. Say what you will, the US hasn't often shied away from a conflict. Maybe after a year or two yes, but short, sharp, and quick wars tend to be the US' bread and butter. China would be playing to our own political strengths by making a war so.

Dude, you are neglecting the larger issues here, the US will rather prefer to abandon Taiwan, rather than stick to it for eternity, since the economic ties between the two countries are too huge to be compromised for a tiny speck of land. You forget the fact that economic interests will always play a bigger part in th future rather than emotional and idealistic interests.

 

[SHASH2K2]

Dude, you are neglecting the larger issues here, the US will rather prefer to abandon Taiwan, rather than stick to it for eternity, since the economic ties between the two countries are too huge to be compromised for a tiny speck of land. You forget the fact that economic interests will always play a bigger part in th future rather than emotional and idealistic interests.

USA has a little diffrent policy for economy. Their economy derives strength from its military. Allowing china to occupy Taiwan means demise of USA Military and hence its economy. USA cannot allow china or any nation to humiliate its military as military and economy are complementary to each other.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

If China is an economic threat to USA and the USA's interests like their current path, USA will definetly act to stop this, trade or no trade, the jobs and factories will come back to US and would workout for the better regardless.

 

[nrj]

India's new non-alignment: Trilateral dialogue with Japan and US

The cryptic announcement on Friday that India will launch a new trilateral dialogue with Japan and the United States masks the significance of Delhi's bold new move.

It was part of a press release issued by the Foreign Office at the end of Foreign Secretary Nirupama Rao's just concluded visit to Tokyo. "It was agreed to establish an India-Japan-United States trilateral dialogue on regional and global issues of shared interest".

The press release added that the dialogue "will be conducted by the foreign ministries of the three countries". It did not specify the level at which these talks might be held.

Delhi's power play comes days before Prime Minister Manmohan Singh heads to China to attend a summit of the BRICS—Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa. Delhi's decision to initiate a new trilateral forum with Japan and the United States underlines the continuing relevance of India's non-alignment.

While those in India who prefer an ideological foreign policy might question the move, foreign policy realists will see it as giving India new room for manoeuvre on the world stage.

If India can sit with China and Russia and talk about common interests, there is no reason why Delhi can't do the same with Tokyo and Washington. The pragmatists also recall how India benefited by engaging both the Eastern block and Western block during the Cold War.

India's non-alignment then allowed it to access massive amounts of aid from both the Soviet Union and the United States. Today the strategy of engaging all powers in different plurilateral settings is about maximising India's strategic options in a multipolar world.

The origins of a strategic dialogue with China and Russia can be traced back to the mid 1990s, when the Russian foreign minister Yevgeni Primakov proposed it during a visit to Delhi.

The three foreign ministers started meeting in 2002, first on the margins of the United Nations General Assembly and then in separate settings. It was eventually elevated to the summit level and was expanded by including Brazil and South Africa.

The idea of a triangular engagement between Delhi, Tokyo and Washington is more recent and was first proposed by Tokyo. The original concept came in 2006 from Japanese premier Shinzo Abe who saw it as a dialogue among democracies of Asia-Pacific and included Australia as well.

There was only one formal meeting of the officials held between the four countries at the level of additional secretaries in 2007.

Australia soon had second thoughts, the United States was tentative, and Tokyo had too many changes at the top for the idea to take off.

As the concept gains a new life, the three countries will be sensible in avoiding an ideological label. Although they are all democracies, India, Japan and the United States have a lot of other shared interests. None of them is more important than promoting a stable political and economic order in Asia.

Some in India and the world are bound to see the new triangle as a counter weight to a rising China. The reality, however, is none of three can afford a confrontation with China, which is their principal trading partner and an important political interlocutor.

Delhi has no reason to be defensive about its new move, for it is very much part of its enduring tradition of non-alignment. As Shyam Saran, India's former foreign secretary and special envoy of the PM put it recently, India foreign policy strategy must be simple in its conception: "engage all great powers, but align with none".

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/i...rilateral-dialogue-with-japan-and-us/773615/0

 

[arya]

just try to avoid chinise product its easy

first importance to our local product then buy made in japan,korea, usa,uk but try to avoid chinise

simple and effective step

 

[chex3009]

While the chinese are in PoK it rules out any confrontation with the Pakistanis as by allowing PLA in PoK, the pakistanis have finally conceded that they have lost it.

No doubt we have to prepare our defences for any untoward incident at our borders but we have won a moral victory over the Pakistanis, as they have proved their army to be impotent and cannot protect PoK. The sole purpose of allowing the Chinese in there is to prevent India from taking any strikes against the terrorist camps located in PoK, which the situation could arise in case of any further terrorist strike on major Indian city.

But IMHO Indian Army must plan out a strategy inspite of Chinese presence, we must capture PoK back from the Pakistanis at the earliest possible chance and don't discuss Siachen and Sir Creek, Let them cry for it....

Chinese won't do any harm to India at this stage of time and not even for coming 7-9 years.

 

[AOE]

Thats taking it to far backwards, i am talking about how all those ancient and medieval circumstances has molded the mindset of each people and nations as an whole. Maurya has long since dissolved and its cultural effects on India are all but completely forgotten all though its quite alive in neighboring countries like Burma and Thailand,Tibet etc., is no consolation to Indians. Todays India is more influenced by muslim,british invasions that is why we resist to much foreign involvement.

I can understand that, but be careful not to be too cautious as to pass up an opportunity when it presents itself.

PRC has one true friend in Pakistan rather they both rely on the old dictum of "My enemies, enemy is my friend" both China and Pakistan see India as an enemy and they both have come close only to conspire against India. India is not isolationist by enemy means matter of fact that is quite far from the truth, today we are buying weapons from USA,Israel,Russia,France and England and that only shows we are open but we dont want to jump into any groupism, we like to spread our eggs in more baskets just to be safe. Today if we do align strongly with the US then we can not represent ourselves without the baggage of being an major US ally which will not be helpful in our neighborhood with China and many anti-US nations like Iran etc., takeing serious note of it.

Being too neutral though has also had its negative effects, and I don't think being a major US ally will prevent India from rising as a regional or global power. Maybe if they had US bases on their soil, but who knows?

Moreover its extremely hard to trust the US, can you imagine if a country has supported and armed your enemy for 60years against you and still supports it then how on Earth can anyone trust such a two timing,two faced entity? For trust to grow US need not take sides but atleast let go of Pakistan.

Pakistans support was largely based in the Cold War, and was on and off just as much as Indias. Nehru was leaning towards Soviet help and communism which distanced early US alliances and help, and of course the war of 1971. A lot has changed since those times, and India is in the perfect state to become a long term major ally of the US. It is democratic, capitalistic, is becoming more free over time, it has had confrontations with China, and is gaining more weapons and help from the west. It is these relations that make Pakistan and China nervous, thus the former makes propaganda about supposed Indian backed terrorism, and how it is destabilizing so it can get free handouts. Pakistan has lost more money to the WOT than it has gained from the US in aid.

You say China has taken it hook,line and sinker! Come on your not that naive to believe that? May be the US has take Chinas bait with nearly complete reliance on Chinese economy and China owns more than 10% of US debt and a lot of trade deficit that some economists are compled to rename both as Chimerica. Which is actually quite right and seeing US reliance on China its hard for us to believe that we would matter more than their major trading partner and debt owner. In may dimensions India can not trust the US and not to mention US attaches strings to everything it sells including food and beverages!

The US could rely on any country tomorrow to fill the gap China has made, and yes it is a game that has been played both ways. Chinas success has also been thanks to pinning its currency against the US dollar for a long time to sell cheap junk, and this a long with its intellectual theft has earned it a lot of enemies around the world; including the US. If America came out tomorrow to propose a major military and economic alliance with India, there would be a large power shift in Asia; even Russia might sour its relations with India. The right time and circumstances will have to be made for this to occur, but don't cling too much to the past as a prediction of the future.

 

[lurker]

Dude, you are neglecting the larger issues here, the US will rather prefer to abandon Taiwan, rather than stick to it for eternity, since the economic ties between the two countries are too huge to be compromised for a tiny speck of land. You forget the fact that economic interests will always play a bigger part in th future rather than emotional and idealistic interests.

The sword of economic ties cuts both ways. If you assume China is willing to cut economic ties with the US and lose its US debt to attempt to take Taiwan back through force, then I assume America is willing to accept cut economic ties with China in order to defend Taiwan, and its role as the dominant power in the region.

You are underestimating what the defence of Taiwan means.

Should we be unable prevent the hostile/forced takeover of Taiwan by the Chinese,our commitments to the rest of our allies and partners in Asia will be in doubt. At least that is the prevailing thought.

 

[sandeepdg]

USA has a little diffrent policy for economy. Their economy derives strength from its military. Allowing china to occupy Taiwan means demise of USA Military and hence its economy. USA cannot allow china or any nation to humiliate its military as military and economy are complementary to each other.

I agree to that point. But I have a feeling that US may compromise on Taiwan, given the larger long term geo-political and economic interests, because as of now US needs China, and China needs the US, its a mutual deal. That's why, even after having conflicting opinions on many issues between these two countries, there haven't been any difference in trade and neither has the US been able to force China to accept and adopt its views, cause the Americans know thats never gonna happen, although it may very well be the other way round. As for the military angle, thinking about going into even short scale hostilities with China gives goosebumps to the Americans, cause they know that it can lead to a devastating aftermath, which they would always like to avoid. See its more like a zero sum game for US, they support Taiwan in a short war against China, the relations between China and USA go down the dumps for considerable period of time, and even if it doesn't then also, US loses as China would go all out in its offensive against Taiwan so as to keep it short and damaging beyond repair, and in the event Taiwan goes down in the dumps. After such a devastating blitzkreig, whatever is left of Taiwan, will think that its better to make peace with the dragon next door than risk loosing whatever is left of it. This may seem like a fantasy, but its very much possible, as the PLA is very passionate about occupying Taiwan, and they consider it a prestige issue. The thing is before the US actually reacts, Taiwan defenses would have been decimated by the rapid Chinese assault. So in both cases, the people of Taiwan pay a very heavy price from which ultimately they may not recover.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

USA is unlikely to compromise on Taiwan after spending billions/trillions on Taiwan, to prevent the one China policy. A bigger reason is there are other allies in Asia who would lose faith in USA if this were ever to happen.

 

[amoy]

Should we be unable prevent the hostile/forced takeover of Taiwan by the Chinese,our commitments to the rest of our allies and partners in Asia will be in doubt. At least that is the prevailing thought.

Just go over cases of Korea and Vietnam. In Korea's case the US at last didn't support Rhee Syng-man's request to continue the war until a full " victory" (i.e. capturing the whole Korea). Instead it negotiated a truce with China along the 38 parallel. As for Vietnam the US even abandoned S. Vietnam regime its vital ally + stronghold in SE Asia, giving in to Viet Cong backed by PRC+USSR.

other allies in Asia who would lose faith in USA if this were ever to happen.

What faith is there? History does tell something abt the future. Will the US fight for Taiwan??

If u follow what's going on btwn Mainland and Taiwan u probably see how PRC is gradually "absorbing" TW so that a war may seem unnecessary or unlikely in a few decades.

 

[lurker]

Just go over cases of Korea and Vietnam. In Korea's case the US at last didn't support Rhee Syng-man's request to continue the war until a full " victory" (i.e. capturing the whole Korea). Instead it negotiated a truce with China along the 38 parallel. As for Vietnam the US even abandoned S. Vietnam regime its vital ally + stronghold in SE Asia, giving in to Viet Cong backed by PRC+USSR.

What faith is there? History does tell something abt the future. Will the US fight for Taiwan??

If u follow what's going on btwn Mainland and Taiwan u probably see how PRC is gradually "absorbing" TW so that a war may seem unnecessary or unlikely in a few decades.

There is faith that the US is still the dominant power in the region and a guarantor of security against rogue states and for open international waters, a faith that is increasingly challenged by China.

Both examples you mention are after some years of war,something that China cannot afford in a Taiwan operation, certainly not when other countries in the region, and the world, are watching.

Like I said, quick wars play to the strengths of the US (getting huge amounts of firepower to a location quickly) and minimize the weaknesses (war weary populace).

Such a war would also not give China time to put its manufacturing capacity to work.

This is assuming China stops once US fleets are there of course. If China continues and is willing to expand the war then things could get much more nasty for both sides, and the rest of the region.

 

[lurker]

If u follow what's going on btwn Mainland and Taiwan u probably see how PRC is gradually "absorbing" TW so that a war may seem unnecessary or unlikely in a few decades.

If Taiwan agrees to a reunification without coercion that is another matter of course.

 

[AOE]

Taiwan unifying with China is unlikely to happen anytime soon. Around 85% of the country would not see it as beneficial on a political, social, and economic level.

 

[SHASH2K2]

US agencies confirm presence of Chinese troops along LoC in PoK​

NEW DELHI: Despite the strong Chinese denial, Indian authorities have now acquired "independent" confirmation about the increasing presence of Chinese troops along the line of control (LoC) in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir from none other than US security agencies.

Highly placed sources in the government told TOI on Saturday that US intelligence agencies have confirmed to Indian authorities about the increasing presence of Chinese troops all along the LoC.

The chief of the Northern Command, Lieutenant General K T Parnaik, had last week come out in the open with the disclosure about Chinese soldiers being based in PoK. The Chinese foreign ministry, however, denied this even describing these reports as baseless and ridiculous.

"We have a strong real time intelligence sharing mechanism with the US and they have conveyed the same thing to Indian agencies including RAW – that these troops are stationed all along the LoC in PoK. They conveyed this to Indian agencies independently without us seeking any confirmation from them," said an official, adding that the government at the highest level was aware of the latest developments in PoK.

"Their confirmation seemed to be based on technical intelligence. They said these Chinese troops seemed to be involved in construction activities," he added. He, however, added that this was not the first time there was confirmation from the US about heightened Chinese activity along the LoC but that was restricted to the Gilgit-Baltistan area.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is scheduled to travel to China on April 12 for the BRICS summit. He is slated to have a bilateral meeting with President Hu Jintao along the sidelines of the summit in which he is expected to voice India's concerns over security issues vis-à-vis Pakistan.

While the involvement of Chinese military in infrastructure projects is well known, the sudden spurt in their presence in PoK has caused much consternation in the Indian security establishment. After the assertions made by Lt-Gen Parnaik, the foreign ministry had sought a detailed report from the defence ministry over the issue. Foreign secretary Nirupama Rao, however, had said that raising tension between the two countries was not the right way of handling the situation.

While Pakistan too has described these reports as baseless, it is now well documented that Chinese troops have been around in PoK since late 2009 when they arrived in the Gilgit-Baltistan area supposedly to rebuild the Karakoram highway. According to Indian agencies though, these troops are no longer restricted to this area and that they are now also present in what Pakistan describes as "Azad Kashmir".

 

[sandeepdg]

USA is unlikely to compromise on Taiwan after spending billions/trillions on Taiwan, to prevent the one China policy. A bigger reason is there are other allies in Asia who would lose faith in USA if this were ever to happen.

Japan is more or less certain to chart its own course in the near future as it sees the US hegemony dwindle and China's power on a rapid rise, that leaves South Korea, Phillipines, Vietnam and Singapore, leaving aside Taiwan. Let's see what future has in store for them. I have a feeling that US will be made to compromise on Taiwan in the near future, its very much a probability.

 

[AOE]

I doubt that. Japan maybe rising to become more independent on its ambitions, but its largest concern is a rapid growing China. If it is smart it will take advantage of its strong relations with the US, like many others in the region to contain the PRC.

 

[SHASH2K2]

/\/\/\ I agree with you . Even if Japan become militarily aggressive it will be good for USA as Japan will share common concern of containing China and thus will reduce burden from USA shoulders. I dont see much difference between USA and Japan on issue of containing China.

 

[nimo_cn]

After finishing all the posts, I have a confession to make, China will be crushed in the future.

 

[niharjhatn]

After finishing all the posts, I have a confession to make, China will be crushed in the future.

Why do you say so?

Nobody wants to see China "crushed", but rather a bit more responsible (wrt to Indians atleast!).