Chinese Telecom Equipment Now Banned In India

[Yusuf]

No more "screwing" around here please.

Nimos post shows how committed the chinese firm is towards india and how profitable it is for it. Contrary to what other chinese posters have said about india being a small market and the chinese will not bother and lose much.

I think the policy of not importing chinese stuff will have a good effect. The chinese majors who are serious about doing business in india will set shop over here and that will mean investment and employment. One arrow, two birds!!!

 

[nimo_cn]

Any telecom equipments manufacturer who neglects the second largest telecom market is a fool.

So again, i want to know if the equipments produced within India also be seen as Chinese products and be banned?

 

[mattster]

How can I disagree with you, and that the "screwing" part is very intriguing ... very intriguing indeed
--> So trade imbalance is "screwing", are you screwed by others too?
--> Are you "screwing" others, if any? If not, does that make you the "screwee" of the world?
--> Before the ban, I didn't recall we put a gun to your head and ask for a "screw". Did that make you "willingly pay for being screwed"?

Your post is of utmost quality I would say, would other members agree?

Again you numnuts cant read between the lines - I was not talking about trade when I mentioned screwing - I was talking about the 50 year proxy war that Pakistan has waged with India thanks to the unflinching support of their Chinese brothers. Grow a brain dude !!!

 

[mattster]

Even as it battles rejection of various deals with telecom operators due to security issues with the Union government, Chinese telecom equipment provider Huawei plans to set up a manufacturing facility in India, near Chennai, at an investment of $300-500 million (Rs 1,340-2,230 crore).

A Chinese delegation is expected to come and meet senior government officials to convey their commitment.

Aiming to continue operations in India, the company wants to steer clear of all the security issues and setting up of a manufacturing unit in India would help in overcoming this, a person close to the development said. Huawei's executive vice-president Xu Zhijun and President (Asia Pacific) Wang Shengli would visit the country this week to sort out this issue. Huawei has already identified land for the proposed unit near Chennai.

It is also in the process of restructuring its management team and board of directors with Indians. About 85 per cent of the company staff consists of Indians.

The Union communications ministry said there was no blanket ban on the import of telecom equipment and networks from Chinese firms Huawei and ZTE. However, no deals have been approved by the ministry since February 18. It had issued a directive that all telecom operators would have to get equipment tested before placing any orders.

In August 2009, the government banned BSNL from sourcing mobile networks and other related hardware from Chinese vendors in any region that shared international boundaries. The government had also asked all telecom equipment makers to employ only Indian engineers to maintain and manage networks of operators here within a two-year timeframe.

India is the second-largest market outside China for both ZTE and Huawei. ZTE's sales in India increased by 50 per cent in 2009-10 and contributed over 10 per cent to its $8.8-billion revenues during this period. From just $170 million in annual revenues from India in 2005, Huawei ended 2009 with sales of over $2.3 billion.

All the new players are banking on Chinese equipment providers to roll out their networks, as Chinese equipment come at a much lower price.

http://www.business-standard.com/in...nai-to-get-over-indian-security-fears/393847/

India needs to show some spine and tell Huawei and ZTE to take a hike. It will provide a huge incentive for Indian Telecom companies to get into manufacturing.
Why do we want to do business with an entity like Huawei which is well known for its connection to the Chinese military.

Huawei was heavily subsidized by the Chinese government in their early years. India should start use trade as a tool against any form of Chinese agression.
Screw them.....there is nothing that China produces that cant be gotten elsewhere.

Plus, do you really want to see thousands of chinese expatriates working In India and spying on India.

 

[nimo_cn]

India needs to show some spine and tell Huawei and ZTE to take a hike.

I see, when India companies can't compete with Chinese companies, India just resorts to administrative means to restrict Chinese companies from doing business india.
But you forget there still are rules here, what India is doing here violates the WTO rules. If India government confirms this policy, i believe China will appeal to WTO.

It will provide a huge incentive for Indian Telecom companies to get into manufacturing.

Maybe. But that can't justify what India is doing.

Why do we want to do business with an entity like Huawei which is well known for its connection to the Chinese military.

Huawei's connection to the Chinese military? What a joke!

Except that Ren Zhengfei(founder of huawei) is a retired soldier, what else do you get?

Huawei was heavily subsidized by the Chinese government in their early years. India should start use trade as a tool against any form of Chinese agression.
Screw them.....there is nothing that China produces that cant be gotten elsewhere.

If India think China subsidizes Huawei and ZTE and violates the rules, you can appeal to WTO. Why play little lame trick such as banning Chinese product in the name of national security?

You are right, India can get almost everything from other countries than China, but i can assure you most of them are still made in China. But you can stilll deceive yourself by believing that banning Chinese products can solve everything.

Plus, do you really want to see thousands of chinese expatriates working In India and spying on India.

Oh, god, i can not believe my eves, in an era of globalization, i can still read such narrow-minded words.
There are approximate 25,000 Indians in China now, and over 6700 of them are students, and that numher is sill growing.

Should China do the same courtesy to them? Some of them may be spies, who knows!

 

[Armand2REP]

China Telecoms are squirming now... =xD

Huawei reportedly seeking meeting over Indian telecom ban

* Source: Global Times
* [02:18 May 05 2010]


Huawei, along with other Chinese telecom operators banned from deals in India, is seeking to convince the Indian security establishment that it poses no security threat and is in a process of turning into "not just a Chinese company."

Quoting a person close to the company, The Economic Times reported Tuesday that senior Huawei executives are to meet high-ranking officials of the Indian security establishment this week to try and resolve a ban on deals between Indian mobile opera-tors and Chinese equipment firms. Since February 18, Huawei, ZTE and another Chinese telecom equipment company have been barred from any new contracts, while all equipment deals with Western vendors have been approved during this period, the newspaper said.

The Indian home ministry since 2005 has warned that foreign telecom equipment vendors may install spyware and malware able to monitor voice and data traffic and bring down networks, and recently mandated that foreign manufacturers make core telecom equipment locally or transfer technology to Indian manufacturers. In a letter to the prime minister's principal secretary, the company pointed out it is "not just a Chinese company," as 85 percent of its staff and nearly all research and development workforce are Indians. "Huawei is willing to give additional information that the Indian government agencies require. This is our commitment," a Huawei official wrote in the letter.

The company is also restructuring operations to put Indian residents into positions of its local arm, including the chairman and the board of directors. Like other Chinese firms, Huawei has won preference among Indian mobile operators with its "ultra-cheap equipment" the report added. No comments were available from Huawei Tuesday.

http://business.globaltimes.cn/industries/2010-05/528544.html

 

[mattster]

Nimo_cn......you are a very funny guy.

Huawei by your own accounts was started a former Chinese military man. If that is not a strong enough reason to keep them out of India, I dont know what is. Now Nimo.....I know you are a smart guy, so let me ask you a very basic question.

Where does a former military man get enough money to start a major Telecom enterprise and that too, one that was losing tons of money during its initial years.
You know that military men dont make big money...so where did Ren Zhengfei get his financial backing from ??

Also, you seem to put a lot of faith in the WTO. Like the WTO can do jack about all the unfair trade practices that China pursues.
China counterfeits just about every major label in the world. WTF can the WTO do about that ?? Jack squat !!

Likewise China can take India to the WTO and argue their case till the cows come home - its not going to do crap to india or its economy.
The WTO is powerless against major economies.

 

[Armand2REP]

I see, when India companies can't compete with Chinese companies, India just resorts to administrative means to restrict Chinese companies from doing business india.
But you forget there still are rules here, what India is doing here violates the WTO rules. If India government confirms this policy, i believe China will appeal to WTO.

India can ban imports from any country on security grounds under WTO rules. Just as military sales are out of its bounds, so are security concerns. China doesn't have a case.

 

[nimo_cn]

Nimo_cn......you are a very funny guy.

Huawei by your own accounts was started a former Chinese military man. If that is not a strong enough reason to keep them out of India, I dont know what is. Now Nimo.....I know you are a smart guy, so let me ask you a very basic question.

Where does a former military man get enough money to start a major Telecom enterprise and that too, one that was losing tons of money during its initial years.
You know that military men dont make big money...so where did Ren Zhengfei get his financial backing from ??

So i am right, all your assertion that Huawei is closely connected to Chinese military is based on Ren Zhengfei's experience of being a soldier.

Obviously, you have no idea how Huawei grows into an international telecom giant from a small private workshop, but that doesn't stop you from spouting crap that Chinese military invests large money in Huawei. So typical!

Google translation

In 1987, already 43-year-old Ren Zhengfei to 24,000 yuan of funds founded Huawei. Early time, some of the information by virtue of the SAR's advantages, Hong Kong power company proxy HAX analog switches, imported from Hong Kong to the Mainland, making the difference.


Of the last century 80's, the domestic use of communications equipment depends on import, the so-called "Seven eight" system that the United States AT & T, Nortel, Ericsson of Sweden, Siemens of Germany, Belgium Bell, Alcatel, and Japanese NEC and Fujitsu .


September 1991, Baoan County, Shenzhen Huawei rented Ho Industrial Estate Industrial Building, third floor, more than 50 people started to develop the initial program-controlled switches. In an interview after an employee "Shenzhen Daily," recalled an interview: "both the workshop floor, the Treasury, but also a kitchen and bedroom. More than a dozen beds arranged next to the wall, the bed is not enough, add foam board mattress replaced. Both leaders and ordinary workers, tired, sleep for a while, then wake up dry. "


In December, the first 3 sets of BH-03 switch package delivery. After the employee was informed that the company had no cash, do not ship, or face bankruptcy.


In 1992, Huawei switch batch to enter the market, current output value of 120 million yuan, the profit is over 10 million, employs more than 100 people.


This stage, securities and real estate boom is the time, but not involved in Huawei, Ren Zhengfei later stressed: We believe that the future world of knowledge in the world, can not be such a bubble world. Ren Zhengfei the proceeds into higher-capacity C & C08 switch.


At this time, multinational companies have established an advantage in the market, while Huawei is just a new brand. Ren Zhengfei decision was "encircling the cities", to take human wave tactics, covering the rural market. June 1994 Zhengfei internal speech said: good and bad in the current product, regardless of circumstances, we have to endure a greater price pressure, but we sincerely service of the Xin Yi Ding Wei Yong Hu will be moved by God, must make God Li Jie Wu some value, and gradually ease our difficulties.


In 1996, as "going out" the first step, Hutchison Telecom Hong Kong Huawei to provide the C & C08 machine. Huawei has designed a wall mounted remote modules to suit the smaller room; and to provide a number portability NP functions to meet the number of migration.


Of course, not just the first opportunity to seize the switch Huawei, when the momentum of the best communication of four manufacturing companies, dragon communications, Datang Telecom, ZTE, Shenzhen Huawei is known as the "great China." In 1998, Huawei's sales revenue 8.9 billion, the smallest is 900 million yuan Tang.

According to the words above, at the beginning, Huawei is just a company sold foreign telecom equipments, which was a very lucrative business back to 1980s and 1990s. Ren earned his first bucket of gold by doing that business.

 

[nimo_cn]

So i am right, all your assertion that Huawei is closely connected to Chinese military is based on Ren Zhengfei's experience of being a soldier.

Obviously, you have no idea how Huawei grows into an international telecom giant from a small private workshop, but that doesn't stop you from spouting crap that Chinese military invests large money in Huawei. So typical!

Google translation



According to the words above, at the beginning, Huawei is just a company sold foreign telecom equipments, which was a very lucrative business back to 1980s and 1990s. Ren eraned the first bucket of gold by doing that business.

Among the four manufacturing companies Dragon communications, Datang Telecom, ZTE and Huawei, the former three are state-owned, if Chinese military really wanted to invest, i believe it would choose these three other than huawei.

 

[nimo_cn]

India can ban imports from any country on security grounds under WTO rules. Just as military sales are out of its bounds, so are security concerns. China doesn't have a case.

But what we are talking about is telecom equipments, not military sales. We can draw few similarities between the two.

If it is on security grounds, then India needs to provide evidences to prove that Chinese equipments are endangering India's national security when issueing such a controversial policy. You can't just say, we are concerned with Indian natiional security, so we decide to ban Chinese equipments.

And why Chinese products only? It is discrimination.

 

[Iamanidiot]

One thing the ban will be enforced .The GoI wasn't exactly impressed with the CCP(they are believing they are too much of a super power).Protesting the indian PM's visit to his own state to visit his own people hasn't gotten well with the indian populace.We indians may be dumb(acc to chinese opinion)but not dumb enough to allow our rivvals to construct the tele communication network(the Chinese are too clever ya know).Anyway I think the contract will be given to the Reliance-Alcatel JV me thinks.Good job GOI the Chinese learn't a lesson that protest need not always be verbal

 

[Iamanidiot]

But what we are talking about is telecom equipments, not military sales. We can draw few similarities between the two.

If it is on security grounds, then India needs to provide evidences to prove that Chinese equipments are endangering India's national security when issueing such a controversial policy. You can't just say, we are concerned with Indian natiional security, so we decide to ban Chinese equipments.

And why Chinese products only? It is discrimination.

CCP's responses are enough for that.Claiming Arunachal arming our neighbouring idiots to the teeth .Pissing everybody in the immediate neighbourhood isn't the mark of a superpower

 

[Yusuf]

I read that all telecom equipment near border areas have to be non chinese. Also the GOI has given telecom companies two years to make their systems indian operated and manned which includes all technicians.

 

[Iamanidiot]

Yup Yusuf Reliance-Alcatel Jv for the same reason

 

[Armand2REP]

But what we are talking about is telecom equipments, not military sales. We can draw few similarities between the two.

If it is on security grounds, then India needs to provide evidences to prove that Chinese equipments are endangering India's national security when issueing such a controversial policy. You can't just say, we are concerned with Indian natiional security, so we decide to ban Chinese equipments.

And why Chinese products only? It is discrimination.

The WTO rules clearly state products can be banned on grounds of national security. China has been extremely active in cyber attacks and cyber espionage and installing Chinese networks will increase the risk. Defence organisations will use these networks so there is no separating the two. Attacks on power grids, communications, and the like could cripple a countries services. It is indeed a matter of national security, especially from a country that has aims on your territory. So as we stand, Huawei, ZTE are banned from the largest telecom growth country in the world. Alcatel and Siemans will take their place so no worries there. China's 3G network expansion is ending this year so Chinese telco growth will halt.

 

[amoy]

Plus, do you really want to see thousands of chinese expatriates working In India and spying on India.

I'm very sure there're more Indians in China than Chinese in India. I often see Indians walking on the streets mostly students or visiting professors here even in my city a provincial one. Hong Kong is an epitome -

Hong Kong has a long-established South Asian population. As of the 2006 by-census, there were at least 44,744 persons of South Asian descent in Hong Kong.[1] Many trace their roots in Hong Kong as far back as when most of the Indian subcontinent was still under British colonial rule, and as a legacy of the British Empire,

Your sentiment can be understood of keeping jobs or biz opportunities for Indians (esp. in the time of crisis) but today the world gets flat and competitive. National security (spying blah blah ) sounds an easy excuse but is a double-edged sword not for abusing. And that appeal to exclude 'thousands of chinese expatriates' from ' working In India ' sounds beyond 'protectionism' .

Wipro launches second facility in China

Wipro Ltd, India's No. 3 software services exporter, said on Thursday it had launched its second facility in China that would provide IT and backoffice services to its global clients.

The facility in Chengdu has started operations with 100 staff, and Wipro said it planned to increase the headcount at the centre that can accommodate 1,000 people.

The New York-listed firm has a facility in Shanghai.

While IBM earned nearly $690 million from China's almost $10 billion IT services market last year, both TCS and Wipro have started making progress as well.

For Indian tech firms such as Infosys and TCS, the past experience of working with large customers in US and Europe is paying rich dividends.

Infosys' core banking software Finacle has made some progress in China with significant wins at China Bank and ABN Amro's operations in Greater China.

Companies such as IBM, TCS and Infosys are also able to bring their project management experience to serve large Chinese customers.

Chinese banks have not yet made significant technology investments when compared to their US counterparts . While only 10% of the country's banks offer online banking, there is only one ATM machine in China for every 10,400 citizens, when compared with one ATM for every 735 citizens in the US.

 

[mattster]

ATTENTION : Nimo and all the other DFI members. Read the articles posted by the links below for the connections between Chinese Telecom companies and the Military.

Read the Forbes article. Its not just India that is worried about Chinese spying thru Chinese Telecom equipment !! US government shut down a Nortel deal involving Huawei.

http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/24176

http://www.forbes.com/2009/01/11/nortel-huawei-buyout-tech-enter-cx_ag_0112nortel.html

 

[nimo_cn]

Three comments below that article, although i don't agree with all of them, it is worth sharing!

It's no different that the deep ties Boeing or Lockheed Martin has with the US military.

Pretty much the same in US. In fact, the Chinese has copied the American spin-off model. Intel, AMD, Google and the rest are deeply connected to US military too. There is nothing wrong in that, the driving force of R+D is the military at least since the 19th century.

Feel - really, it is something every company should be doing. Has nothing to do that it is a Chinese counterpart or whatever - international connections are a must today. Countries and governments deal with each other all the time, work together even their systems and believes are different, etc - why not companies? Or does someone think that politicians are wiser and more clever than other people - really?

As previous replies have already said - this report only shows that China is catching the "free" markets and countries. Nothing new here - at least they don't waste the research money to support corn or whatever for political reasons instead of better alternatives.

This is hilarious - "These firms are not obligated to provide a social safety net for thousands of unemployable workers and their families in rural areas.
Instead, they hire and fire staff using market-based incentives and stock options."

So, it's good? They are learning from western corporations? Even some of the old, feudal corporations took care of retiring employees and their families - not happening today in "free" market, so they are "modernized"?

Besides, isn't it a good thing that some research / manufacturing originate from a different parts of the existing state research and development infrastructure, it means that the money government has been using will get back to people.

 

[nimo_cn]

This is a comment posted below the report of "Nortel's China Syndrome"

http://rate.forbes.com/comments/Com...ut-tech-enter-cx_ag_0112nortel.html&com=44489

A letter to the editor from Huawei's head of global corporate communications, Ross Gan:

Dear Editor,

Contrary to statements included in your article, "Nortel's China Syndrome," Huawei Techologies already has a good presence in North America and we successfully compete in that market through open and transparent tenders against other leading telecommunications companies from around the world. While we are in the early stages of building our business in North America, we have 400 employees serving our carrier customers, such as Bell Canada and Telus, for whom Huawei is building North America's first large scale commercial 3G (UMTS/HSPA) wireless network.



More than 70 percent of the world's top 50 telecommunications network operators worldwide choose to partner with Huawei and our success internationally is based on our ability to provide quality products and services and value and innovation to our customers, not on any nefarious links to any government or any institution.

Huawei is a private company, owned entirely by its employees via an employee share ownership plan. No single person owns more than two percent of its shares and no organizations or governments hold any stake in or control any part of Huawei. We employ an international workforce, we partner with some of the world's leading telecommunications companies and we have operations in countries around the world.

Huawei wins business on the merits of our offer, we adhere to a strict code of business conduct, and we look forward to contributing to the development of the telecommunications industry in North America, just as we are doing in many other parts of the world.


Sincerely,
Ross Gan
Global Head, Corporate Communications
Huawei Technologies
Shenzhen, China