Chinese submarine in Karachi, raises concern

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by Blackwater, Jun 28, 2015.

  1. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    NEW DELHI: Chinese submarines have now reportedly begun to make forays to even Karachi after making similar visits to Colombo over the last one year, sparking further concerns in the Indian security establishment.

    This is yet another indicator of the fast transformation of the People's Liberation Army-Navy (PLA-N), which operated close to its shores for long, into a "blue-water force with long legs" that is expanding its presence in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR).

    READ ALSO: India suspicious as Chinese submarine docks in Sri Lanka

    In the latest incident, the PLA-N's conventional Yuan-class 335 submarine entered the Karachi port on May 22 after crossing the Arabian Sea close to the Indian waters. After docking there for replenishment for about a week, it set sail again, much like the visits of Chinese submarines to Colombo since September last year, as was earlier reported by TOI.

    While India had raised the matter with Sri Lanka, the Chinese government had said such replenishment stopovers on way to the Gulf of Aden for escort and anti-piracy operations were a "common practice" for navies around the world. While this is certainly true, many feel China is practising long-range deployments of its nuclear and conventional submarines on the pre-text of anti-piracy patrols.

    Though India has been closely tracking this increased activity of Chinese warships and submarines in the IOR, it can do little since international waters or the "global commons" are open to all. "Four of our warships, after all, are also currently in the South China Sea on a long overseas deployment," said an official. But this first-ever reported visit of a Chinese submarine to Pakistan does up the stakes in the IOR, where India and China are jostling for the same strategic space.

    Navy chief Admiral Robin Dhowan had recently said his force was "minutely and continuously monitoring" the presence of Chinese warships in the region to ascertain "what challenges they could pose for us".

    Incidentally, though the Yuan-class submarines are diesel-electric, they are equipped with air-independent propulsion (AIP) to greatly enhance their underwater endurance and stealth. Unlike nuclear-powered submarines that can stay underwater for months at end, diesel-electric submarines have to surface every few days to get oxygen to re-charge their batteries.

    READ ALSO: Sri Lanka snubs India, opens port to Chinese submarine again

    Islamabad recently inked a deal with Beijing for eight such conventional submarines, four of which will be built in Pakistan. As reported earlier by TOI, politico-bureaucratic apathy in India has, however, ensured that the Navy is currently grappling with just 13 ageing diesel-electric submarines, only half of them operational at any given time, and a single nuclear-powered submarine (without any nuclear-tipped missiles) on lease from Russia. China, in sharp contrast, has 51 conventional and five nuclear submarines. It is also going to soon induct another five advanced JIN-class nuclear submarines equipped with the new 7,400-km JL-2 missiles.


    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...achi-raises-concern/articleshow/47845930.cms?
     
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  3. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    and what IN was doing ????????

    [​IMG]

    :eek1:o_Oo_Oo_Oo_O
     
  4. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    It would have been tracked by Indian Navy. And there is nothing you can do about submarines in international waters. It's not that the entire Indian Ocean,Arabian Sea & BoB is ours in entirety.

    We have to get used to China sending ships/subs in the region repeatedly
     
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  5. Hari Sud

    Hari Sud Senior Member Senior Member

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    As long as India continuously know when and where any of the Chinese submarine is and under a ready missile or torpedo attack, it should be good enough. International waters are not Indian waters. In addition what India has to know that once it dives, how long it stays under water. Most of the Chinese built subs lack endurance as the technology is stolen, hence imperfect. While at a port in Karachi or Sri Lanka or any other port, it is important to know that what does it stops for. Whether, it is for supplies or for repair or refit. Also are these major repairs?

    Sooner than later, China should expect an Indian nuclear submarine docking at Vietnamese port. It may travel further on to Taiwan or Japan. All on a goodwil visit similar to Chinese visit to Karachi or Sri Lanaka.

    It is China to be blamed. They got overenthusiastic. The danger for them is still greater. All it takes is one breakdown for an inexperienced crew and imperfect machine to blow the so called China naval might to smithereens.

    Remember the four Soviet nuclear submarine which travelled to Cuba with missile cargo in 1962, were forced to surface, hence could come under bomber attack as mechanical or technical problems resulted in them in exposing themselves to danger. At that time nuclear submarines were new to the Soviets and most probably, they based their submarines on stolen technology. Situation for China is no different. U.S. laughed at the Soviets and India will laugh at Chinese, all it needs is one breakdown.
     
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  6. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Chief of Navy already has said they are closely monitoring every movement of the Chinese navy. Our P8s will be working non stop. We need more of them
     
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  7. Abhijat

    Abhijat Regular Member

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    This type of incidents would surely increase in future.

    But, my contention is that, for development of India, IOR is "very important" and also it needs to be insured that it remains peaceful region.

    So apart from conventional monitoring , it needs to be ensured that , policy to make this region "India" centric , as in , rejuvenating the place of 'India' in Indian Ocean , and also , linking "cultural" sites , so that this region remains peaceful for development.

    What you guys think of this : Project Mausam

    http://www.indiaculture.nic.in/project-mausam
     
  8. Abhijat

    Abhijat Regular Member

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    http://thediplomat.com/2014/09/project-mausam-indias-answer-to-chinas-maritime-silk-road/


    Project Mausam: India's Answer to China's 'Maritime Silk Road'
    India is using its history, culture and geography to compete with China’s “Maritime Silk Road.”

    This week, Chinese President Xi Jinping is visitingIndia. While relations between India and China are expected to improve as a result of Xi’s visit, India and China will continue to compete for influence in the region. This is evidenced by the fact that India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi will soon launch a new initiative designed to compete with China’s Maritime Silk Road (MSR), known as Project Mausam.

    As Shannon pointed out yesterday, Xi Jinping is pushing China’s MSR in India’s backyard with the eager support of countries like Sri Lanka and the Maldives. Even India is interested in potentially joining the MSR as the plan is a boon to the economies of the entire region. However, India has to look out for its own strategic interests as well.

    As myself and others on The Diplomat have argued, India is uniquely placed to play a major role in Indian Ocean security and trade. India’s location and power can serve to organize the states of the Indian Ocean littoral. Understanding this, Modi’s government is currently shaping Project Mausam.

    The project is considered the Modi government’s most significant foreign policy initiative designed to counter China. It is inspired by India’s historical role as the focal point for trade in the Indian Ocean. In pre-modern times, sailors used seasonal monsoons (mausam, मौसम means weather or season in many South Asian languages) to swiftly journey across the Indian Ocean. This trip usually involved starting from one of the edges of the ocean, around today’s Indonesia or east Africa, sailing to India, stopping, and allowing another crew to wait for another monsoon to sail to the other edge of the Indian Ocean, as different monsoon winds blew in different directions at different times of the year. Crews would frequently winter for months in India or at one of the edges of the ocean waiting for another season of monsoons. This allowed for significant cultural exchanges as diverse people from different places would often spend months at a time living in foreign countries (Islam is said to have entered Indonesia in this manner).

    Project Mausam would allow India to reestablish its ties with its ancient trade partners and re-establish an “Indian Ocean world” along the littoral of the Indian Ocean. This world would stretch from east Africa, along the Arabian Peninsula, past southern Iran to the major countries of South Asia and thence to Sri Lanka and Southeast Asia.

    According to the Times of India, Indian Foreign Secretary Sujatha Singh discussed how to give shape to the project with Culture Secretary Ravindra Singh. The project is supposed to have both a cultural and serious strategic dimension. Perhaps one thing India could consider is seriously developing its Andaman and Nicobar Islands as a security and trade zone. The Economist recently reported on some Indian steps to do just that, which is sensible given the islands’ location close to the strategically important Straits of Malacca and Thailand. However, India has yet to reveal actual details on the policies and projects that it intends to pursue to advance Project Mausam.

    It is clear that India’s government intends to expand its maritime presence, culturally, strategically and psychologically (in order to remind the region why the ocean is called the Indian Ocean). Despite the lack of details, Project Mausam seems like a positive step in that direction and one that will generally be well-received. It is to be hoped, however, that the project is meaningful and does not lack teeth, like many other Indian initiatives of the past. The fact that Narendra Modi’s government is initiating Project Mausam, however, at least gives one assurance that the Indian government is not launching another arbitrary and half-hearted initiative.
     
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  9. laughingbuddha

    laughingbuddha Regular Member

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    DRDO took forever to develop towed sonar and govt "finally" ordered some much needed ones from abroad which are yet to be installed.
    I'm made to believe that these are necessary to detect and track hostile submarines?
     
  10. indiandefencefan

    indiandefencefan Regular Member

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    As it is the current situation prevents us from accurately tracking all Chinese submarine deployments to the IOR because of several important factors:

    - Indian navy P8s & illyushin il-38s are spread too thin over our vast coastlines and as far as I have heard our tupolev tu-142s are still being upgraded in Russia.

    - The navy faces a shortage of proper ASW helicopters with single choppers being shared by multiple ships.

    - DRDO has taken too long to develop adequate sonars which have led to the navy ordering foreign made sonars which are yet to be installed on naval warships.

    Unless these problems are not resolved our ability to track Chinese subs will remain limited and sub deployments to the IOR will only increase.
     
  11. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    Old News.


    This is type 093 type submarine. Docked there to familiarize Pak Navy , with the modus operandi of the upcoming 8 submarines which Pak is buying from China.
     
  12. aliyah

    aliyah Regular Member

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    1) dismantle drdo in to many small dedicated groups so that useless org can do something
    2)sl repeatedly playing foil sport......R&AW needs to be bring in this angle aggressively.......as sl forgot wat india can do
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2015
  13. prohumanity

    prohumanity Regular Member

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    Folks, it amazes me that the forum is distracted by minor incidents like this. THE BIG EVENT IS ON JULY 8-9,
    WHEN SCO and BRICS SUMMIT WILL HAPPEN IN UFA, RUSSIA. BOTH INDIA AND PAKISTAN WILL JOIN SCO AS FULL MEMBERS. Don't forget to watch this very important, epic event about future of the World.
     
  14. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    What's the big deal. InN itself has disseminated this news. We know where they are and they know that we know where they are.
    ................................................................
    Pakistan since its inception has been on survival mode. It has been always a war mongering nation trying to hide its insecurities. Their offensive postures which they rent from different sleeping partners are blessing in disguise for India which keeps our politico-security machinery well oiled and proactive.

    When they were sleeping with USA, USA had rather more aggressive presence in this region; which India always objected.

    What India lacked before was political determination like in 26/11 Manmohan Singh and that lady who has compromised India's security establishment, supported by pessimist Pranab Mukerji Pakistan was let off the hook.

    The point I am trying to make is that India will punish Pakistan at whim if there is political resolve in India and Pakistan crosses the line; notwithstanding she suffers from poly-partner abuse or not.
     
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  15. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    dont use word "buying". its insult to pakistan:):):):)
     
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  16. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    its not a minor incident, these minor incidents leads to big incident. IN should challenge chini subs to show they rule this part of the world but forthat IN should have something in hand,we all know IN is struggling with hardware but apart from hardware its hard balls which matters
     
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  17. SajeevJino

    SajeevJino Long walk Elite Member

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    waiting to see, when India going to dock It's submarines in Taiwanese Ports
    .
     
  18. Bheeshma

    Bheeshma Regular Member

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    It was not a 093 but 035 yuan class. It was tracked all the way by IN.
     
  19. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    i dont see it will happen. india still going with nehru ideology we need sardar patel hope modi can do
     
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  20. avknight1408

    avknight1408 Regular Member

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    Pakistan is china's colony. Its natural for the colonial power to have military presence in its colony.
     
  21. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    No pakis are the RANDI of CHINA

    [​IMG]

    :):):):):)
     

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