Chinese Su 35s vs Indian's Rafale MMRCA winner

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by Mariner HK, Mar 13, 2013.

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  1. Mariner HK

    Mariner HK Tihar Jail Banned

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    Chinese Su 35s vs Indian's Rafale MMRCA winner

    Sukhoi Su-35


    General characteristics

    Crew: 1
    Length: 21.9 m (72.9 ft)
    Wingspan: 15.3 m (50.2 ft)
    Height: 5.90 m (19.4 ft)
    Wing area: 62.0 m² (667 ft²)
    Empty weight: 18,400 kg (40,570 lb)
    Loaded weight: 25,300 kg (56,660 lb)
    Max. takeoff weight: 34,500 kg (76,060 lb)
    Powerplant: 2 × Saturn 117S with TVC nozzle turbofan
    Dry thrust: 8,800 kgf[90] (86.3 kN, 19,400 lbf) each
    Thrust with afterburner: 14,500 kgf (142 kN, 31,900 lbf) each

    Dassault Rafale


    General characteristics

    Crew: 1–2
    Length: 15.27 m (50.1 ft)
    Wingspan: 10.80 m (35.4 ft)
    Height: 5.34 m (17.5 ft)
    Wing area: 45.7 m² (492 ft²)
    Empty weight:
    C: 9,500 kilograms (21,000 lb)
    B: 9,770 kilograms (21,500 lb)
    M: 10,196 kilograms (22,480 lb)[164] ()
    Loaded weight: 14,016 kg (30,900 lb)
    Max. takeoff weight: 24,500 kg (C/D), 22,200 kg (M) (54,000 lb)
    Powerplant: 2 × Snecma M88-2 turbofans
    Dry thrust: 50.04 kN (11,250 lbf) each
    Thrust with afterburner: 75.62 kN (17,000 lbf) each
    Fuel capacity: 4,700 kg (10,000 lb) internal

    Performance SU 35:Maximum speed: Mach 2.25 (2,390 km/h, 1,490 mph) at altitude
    Range: 3,600 km (1,940 nmi) ; (1,580 km, 850 nmi near ground level)
    Ferry range: 4,500 km (2,430 nmi) with external fuel tanks
    Service ceiling: 18,000 m (59,100 ft)
    Rate of climb: >280 m/s (>55,100 ft/min)
    Wing loading: 408 kg/m² (84.9 lb/ft²)
    Thrust/weight: 1.13

    Performance Rafale:Maximum speed:
    High altitude: Mach 1.8+ (2,130+ km/h, 1,050+ knots)
    Low altitude: Mach 1.1+ (1,390 km/h, 750 knots)
    Range: 3,700+ km (2,000+ nmi)
    Combat radius: 1,852+ km (1,000+ nmi) on penetration mission
    Service ceiling: 16,800 m (55,000 ft)
    Rate of climb: 304.8+ m/s (60,000+ ft/min)
    Wing loading: 306 kg/m² (62.8 lb/ft²)
    Thrust/weight: 0.988 (100% fuel, 2 EM A2A missile, 2 IR A2A missile) version M

    Armament Su35:
    1 × 30 mm GSh-30 internal cannon with 150 rounds
    2 × wingtip rails for R-73 air-to-air missiles or ECM pods
    12 × wing and fuselage stations for up to 8,000 kg (17,630 lb) of ordnance, including a variety of air-to-air missiles, air-to-surface missiles, rockets, and bombs such as:
    Vympel R-27: R-27R, R-27ER, R-27T, R-27ET, R-27EP, R-27AE
    Vympel R-77: R-77, and the proposed R-77M1, R-77T
    Vympel R-73: R-73E, R-73M, R-74M
    Kh-31: Kh-31A, Kh-31P Anti-Radiation Missile
    Kh-59
    Kh-29: Kh-29T, Kh-29L
    KAB-500L laser-guided bomb
    KAB-1500 laser-guided bomb
    LGB-250 laser-guided bomb
    FAB-250 250 kilograms (550 lb) unguided bombs
    FAB-500 500 kilograms (1,100 lb) unguided bombs
    S-25LD laser-guided rocket, S-250 unguided rocket
    B-8 unguided S-8 rocket pods
    B-13 unguided S-13 rocket pods

    Avionics Su35:Irbis-E passive phased array radar

    Armament Rafale:
    Guns: 1× 30 mm (1.18 in) GIAT 30/719B autocannon with 125 rounds
    Hardpoints: 14 for Air Force versions (Rafale B/C), 13 for Navy version (Rafale M) with a capacity of 9,500 kg (21,000 lb) external fuel and ordnance and provisions to carry combinations of:
    Missiles:
    MBDA MICA IR or EM or Magic II and
    MBDA Meteor air-to-air mssiles in the future
    Air-to-ground:
    MBDA Apache or
    Storm Shadow-SCALP EG or
    AASM-Hammer or
    GBU-12 Paveway II or
    AS-30L
    Air-to-surface:
    AM 39-Exocet
    Deterrence:
    ASMP-A nuclear missile
    Other:
    Thales Damocles targeting pod
    RECO NG (New Generation) reconnaissance pod
    up to 5 drop tanks
    The Rafale can also carry a buddy-buddy refuelling pod[52]

    Avionics

    Thales RBE2 radar
    Thales SPECTRA electronic warfare system.
    Thales/SAGEM-OSF Optronique Secteur Frontal infra-red search and track system.


    I know its yet another Vs thread..But am really confused and doubt Rafale against su35s... Chinese to buy 24 su 35 and 176 more follow on order expected.As they did with Su 27 flanker. Should we opt for rafale.Insteed EF and Su 35 ?:rolleyes:
     
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  3. Mariner HK

    Mariner HK Tihar Jail Banned

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    LITTLE MORE : Re: Sukhoi Su-35 vs Dassault Rafale
    1. Normal take-off
    * Su-35: 25,300 kg
    * Rafale: 15,000 kg

    2. MTOW
    * Su-35: 34,500 kg

    *Rafale: 24,500 kg

    3. Internal Fuel
    * Su-35: 11,500 kg

    * Rafale: 4,750 kg

    4. Maximal Payload
    * Su-35: 8,000 kg

    * Rafale: 9,500 kg

    5. Maximal Speed, 11,000 m
    * Su-35: 2.25 Mach

    * Rafale: 1.80 Mach+ (2.00 Mach)

    6. Maximal speed, 200 m
    * Su-35: 1,400 km/hr

    * Rafale: 750 kts

    7. Climb rate
    *Su-35: 280 m/sec+, 1,000 m


    * Rafale: 305 m/sec+, sea-level

    8. Operational Altitude
    * Su-35: 59,000 fts

    * Rafale: 55,000 fts

    9. Ferry range

    * Su-35: 4,500 km (Internal Fuel + 2000L
    tanks*2)

    * Rafale: > 2,100 km (Internal Fuel)


    10. Acceleration
    * Su-35: 13.8 secs from 600 km/hr to 1,100 km/
    hr, and 8 secs from 1,100 km/hr to 1,300 km/hr
    with 50% internal fuel, standard A-A
    configuration, and height of 1,000 m
    * Rafale: around 20 seconds from 300 km/hr to
    1,000 km/hr at low altitude.

    11. Normal upper G-limit
    * Su-35: +9.0G

    * Rafale: +9.0G

    12. T/W ratio of normal take-off AB / Max.
    Mil. * Su-35: 1.10 ~ 1.15 / 0.69 ~ 0.70

    * Rafale: 1.02 ~ 1.03 / 0.68 ~ 0.69

    13. Take-off with standard A-A configuration
    * Su-35: 400 to 450 m
    * Rafale: 400 m

    14. Landing
    * Su-35: 650 m with the help of braking and
    parachute
    * Rafale: 400 m with the help of braking only

    15. Radar's range
    * Su-35: Detecting target of RCS = 3m2 at the
    range of 350 to 400 km away --> 307 ~ 351.
    * Rafale: Detecting target of RCS = 5 m2 at the
    range of 130 ~ 148 km away --> Detecting target
    of RCS = 3m2 at the range of 114 to 130 km
    away theoretically --> 100 ~ 114.

    16. Maximal horizontal scanning angle of
    Radar

    * Su-35: +/-120 degrees


    * Rafale: +/- 60 degrees

    17. Capability of multiple target engagement
    * Su-35: Tracking 30 and engaging 8.
    * Rafale: Tracking 40 and engaging 4 to 6.

    18. Frontal minimal RCS / Ratio of RCS / Ratio of
    range being detected
    * Su-35: 1.0 ~ 3.0 m2 --> 6666 ~ 20000 --> 9.03 ~
    11.89
    * Rafale: 0.1 ~ 0.2 m2 --> 666 ~ 1332 --> 5.08 ~
    6.04

    19. Su-35 v.s Rafale
    * Theoretically, Rafale shall be able to detect /
    track Su-35 at the range of 87 to 130 km / 52 to
    91 km away in head to head engagement.

    * Theoretically, Su-35 shall be able to detect /
    track Rafale at the range of 150 to 203 km / 90 to
    142 km away in head to head engagement.
     
  4. A chauhan

    A chauhan "अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l" Senior Member

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    Why don't you compare Su-35 with Super Sukhoi ?
     
  5. Mariner HK

    Mariner HK Tihar Jail Banned

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    super sukoi specs unknow...but wont be better or equal to su 35 for sure... its su 30 mki upgraded to come close to su 35 but not su 35
     
  6. HeinzGud

    HeinzGud Senior Member Senior Member

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    No matter how hard you compare SU 35 is the best out their. Russians are cleaver chess players you know. They trying to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. :p
     
  7. SajeevJino

    SajeevJino Long walk Elite Member

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    Su 35 is completely designed as a Air Dominance/ Superiority Fighter unlike the Rafale is a Omnirole fighter can act as Best in A2G mode but lacks In air superiority mode if compared with Su 35..and the RCS level of Rafale is too low compared with Su 35 if Rafale comes with Meteor ..Rafale fire the missile towards su 35 and retreat friendly air space unlike not going with Dogfighting
     
  8. Mariner HK

    Mariner HK Tihar Jail Banned

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    my friend meteor has the range of 100km so it should come atleast 100km to launch its missile but sukoi 30 mki armed with missile OF 160 KM RANGE ... :p AND su 35 has rcs 4... rafale stands no chance of surviving
     
  9. Agnostic_Indian

    Agnostic_Indian Regular Member

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    anybody know which version of bvr missile will they supply with su35 to China ?
     
  10. Hari Sud

    Hari Sud Senior Member Senior Member

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    If India rejected SU 35 in favor of Raffale after a careful consideration, then how could SU 35 could be better. The fact of the matter is that Chinese are desperate for technology, hence they would by the Russian fighter not to add to their air dominance but To look, see and copy. All that hoopla of J20 and other fighters which China has tested is more propaganda than a threat.
     
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  11. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Is SU-35 MMRCA????????? if not, comparison out of Q, close the thread
     
  12. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    A parallel thread running.
     
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