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vish

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Trust me guys, this is all media hype.

The Sri Lankans were lend a considerable hand by the IN in curbing the Tigers' freedom vis-a-vis sea travel. The only reason why the Lankans buy weapons from China and Pakistan is because we do not sell them. When they need something that only we can offer, we do provide them with equipment.

The Sri Lankans realized long back that the only way they can develop is by shaking hands with us and not soliciting foreign powers into our backyard. And they are okay with it. Plus, will/can the PLAN save their arse like we did during the Tsunami?

As for all the drama about sending envoys to emphasize restraint, it is just that, drama. Chidambaram is emphasizing to the foolishly sentimental (sorry if this is offensive to anybody) Tamil populace (or sections of it) that we (Congress) are doing something. Nothing more. Those envoys are going to go there, hang around, give news bytes and then come back. Meanwhile, the SLA finishes LTTE and we all live happily ever after.

Lethal:
The LTTE killed a whole lot of our soldiers, even though we were trying to save their arse. I say we let the SLA **** them (the LTTE, not the Tamil civilians) to oblivion.
 

Yusuf

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Vish, India because of political pressure coming from Tamil Nadu, did not provide assistance in terms of weapons/ammo etc.. This is where Pakistan and China stepped in.
This made SL realize that they need those two countries and not India as India will always be bound by it's own political compulsions. We are only fooling ourselves if we laugh away Chinese influence in SL.
 

vish

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Vish, India because of political pressure coming from Tamil Nadu, did not provide assistance in terms of weapons/ammo etc.. This is where Pakistan and China stepped in.
This only confirms what I said; the Lankans wanted weapons from us, we refused and hence, they went to the Chinese and Pakistanis. If, however, the Lankans need something that only we can provide, we do oblige. IIRC, we did give them radars.

Also, IN had a major role to play in ensuring that the Lankans are able to choke the Tigers' supplies. Can the PLAN and PN fill the void if IN decides to look the other way?

Geography matters.


This made SL realize that they need those two countries and not India as India will always be bound by it's own political compulsions. We are only fooling ourselves if we laugh away Chinese influence in SL.
Yusuf, think for a moment. The Lankans bought weapons from Pakistan and China because we do not sell any bang-bang stuff to them. If we start doing so in the future, you know what the Chinese and Pakistanis are going to get: a big boot. And once the LTTE goes down the drain (as a conventional force), I'm pretty certain we will start selling equipment in a more hush-hush manner.

I'm not denying that the CCP is trying to create influence in Sri Lanka, but to say that the GoI and the Indian bureaucracy is doing nothing about it, is really preposterous.
 

jackprince

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India did assist Sri Lankan Navy by selling HAL Chetak for Fleet air arm and an OPV SLNS Sayura, former INS Sarayu (Sukanya class) which is their Flag Ship in 2000.

Also, I don't understand why should Tamils of India at all sympathise with LTTE? They are but the terrorist who happens to speak same language and long ago shared ancestry. They after all attacked us and as bad as Talibans - suicide bombing, killing civilians, using child soldiers.
 

Yusuf

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China has given it Jian 7 fighter jets, AAA and radars. It has given SL a billion dollars in aid last year. It is stringing it's pearl there by investing another billion in building a port on the east coast in Hambantota.
What has been India's counter to all this?
The Pakistanis at Chinese behest has trained Lankan pilots in precision guided attacks. What's more, Pakistan may be broke, but it gave SL $100 million assistance last year. Yes geography matters but then the amount of effort China is putting in there, it will render the geographical advantage we have useless.
 

Paritosh

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we indians have always tried extra hard to please the whole wide world..i guess it's in our blood....
what is the fault of the LTTE?
1)the tamils were taken to Lanka by the brits as plantation workers...their status back then was of almost slaves...the lankan sinhalese couldn't do much against the will of the brits...so large no.s of 'our' tamils were sent to lanka to pluck tea leaves...
2)now when the lankans got their independece....they wanted to throw the 'northern scum' out to where they belonged...the tamils had no voting rights...no universal adult franchise...they couldn't get employed...and were looked down upon...and were limited to the northern areas of lanka...
3)the tamils...formed a party..a political party to contest for the rights of tamils...
the party won from every constituency in the northern tamil areas....but the lankan president banned it and barred it from ever having any political say of any kind....
4)riots took place in the northern areas...tamils were killed...
5)rise of the tigers...a man little known at that time...V.Prabhakaran swore an oath to give the lankans back what they did to his people....
6)after terrorizing the lankans for decades...after virtually routing the lankan army out numbering the tigers by a 100:1...the man along with the last of the tigers takes his last stand in the last tiger stronghold...he knows that his time is short...and like all the other tigers...keeps the cyanide pill close to his heart...but he still has magazines to empty and cadres to lead...
such is the fate that awaits the man who is called Prabhakaran...
 

Yusuf

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what are to trying to hint? That we sacrifice our national interest?
 

Paritosh

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what is our national interest?
a leverage in the lankan sphere..or the god forsaken tamils who die by the thousands...
pakistan brutally and openly supports the kashmir cause....
the whole world supprots the tibetan cause...and here we are distancing ourselves from our own people?
i am not an LTTE sympathizer...neither am i a tamil...but i am as much an indian as are the tamils...and i think that it's high time we understand what our antional interests are...and understand the importance of one 'spent' Indian life....
 

vish

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what is our national interest?
Honestly, muck around and have fun. This is India's primary national interest. Who wants to rule this planet any ways?

a leverage in the lankan sphere..or the god forsaken tamils who die by the thousands...
Letting the Lankans mop up LTTE gives us enough leverage. As far as Tamil civilians are concerned, well the LTTE's record speaks for itself.

pakistan brutally and openly supports the kashmir cause....
And is universally regarded as a cluster-eff.

the whole world supprots the tibetan cause...
Really? We have done way more for the Tibetans than the rest of the world put together.

and here we are distancing ourselves from our own people?
Our own people? Just because we share an ethnicity, does not mean that they are our own people. Further, I think you have forgotten the IPKF and Rajiv Gandhi and his efforts to create a political solution to the problem.

i am not an LTTE sympathizer...neither am i a tamil...but i am as much an indian as are the tamils...and i think that it's high time we understand what our antional interests are...and understand the importance of one 'spent' Indian life....
The faster the LTTE is annihilated, the more the number of lives saved. And the GoSL knows it has to accommodate the Tamils, or else its bang-bang all over again.
 

Paritosh

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Honestly, muck around and have fun. This is India's primary national interest. Who wants to rule this planet any ways?
we surely would want to differ from the yank philosophy...India is not america my friend..
Letting the Lankans mop up LTTE gives us enough leverage. As far as Tamil civilians are concerned, well the LTTE's record speaks for itself.
apart from Muralidaran and M.I.A...how many Lankan tamils have you heard of?
there are none...Sri Lanka treats it's tamil population as 'Indian illegal settlers'...after the LTTE is wiped out....the tamils would be defenseless again...they have no voting rights...and no employment opportunities...
And is universally regarded as a cluster-eff.
you know what is POK called by the united nations..?it's called 'Azad Kashmir'....the pakistanis spend a substantial amount in lobbying for the cause of 'their' Kashmir...there is absolutely no nation...which confidently supports the Indian hold over Kashmir...
Really? We have done way more for the Tibetans than the rest of the world put together.
well no one can get tibet back to the tibetans...but right from Richard Gere to lindsay lohan...to the rage against the machine...the tibetan issue has in a large way contributed in creating the 'Evil China' america is out against...

Our own people? Just because we share an ethnicity, does not mean that they are our own people. Further, I think you have forgotten the IPKF and Rajiv Gandhi and his efforts to create a political solution to the problem.
yeah they are not the NRIs wooed by the GOI to bring home millions of dollars are they?why did rajiv gandhi send the IPKf if the fate of these tamils wasnt important to us?
rajiv gandhi should have used diplomacy instead of military...it was a stupid move...it wsn't a political solution.

The faster the LTTE is annihilated, the more the number of lives saved. And the GoSL knows it has to accommodate the Tamils, or else its bang-bang all over again.
do one thing...try to look up all of your fav sites...and try to figure out how many tamils are dying each day..there'd be no bang-bang...this time...the tamil resistance is a spent force...the GoSL wouldn't budge...
 

ZOOM

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In my opinion, just because China is fishing in troubled water, it doesn't mean that they will use Sri Lankan soil as a launching pad or for a military purpose. Since they themselves aware that despite providing billions of dollers of aid and weapons alongwith political support in international arena for LTTE issue, Sri lanka will never let them to do anything offensive against India. All china will going to do is to dictat their terms and arm twist on major issues concerning regional power game. Heck even chinese even never let South africans to allow Dalai Lama to step inside their country, just because they have some multibillion doller investment in South africa.
 

Yusuf

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paritosh

Back yourself with some reports. Who has ever said that the Sri Lankan Tamils are treated as illegal Indians?
The very people who are claiming to be protecting the Tamils and fighting for Eelam, are the ones using them as human shields.
 

Paritosh

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Genocide of Tamils
Sri Lankan President Rajapakse needs, Hague ICC trial | NowPublic News Coverage
What Matters: February 2009
THE HISTORY OF THE NATIONAL CONFLICT IN SRI LANKA - TamilCanadian
learn about the dubious lankan 'ceylon citizenship act of 1948'
this is the official document...this is what lead to everything...
</title> <script language="JavaScript" type="text/javascript"> var s = ''; function print_doc(){ pre_print(); window.print(); //setTimeout("",1000); //window.location.reload('true'); post_print(); } function pre_print(){ document.getElementById('top_

rajiv gandhi had tried to enforce the famous '13th amendment' of the lankan constitution...it hasn't been enforced yet 20 years have passed....
search about it...
i dont see wiki as a reliable source..but it's political details are good enough...
Origins of the Sri Lankan civil war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Yusuf

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A civil war in another country with one party having the same ethnicity as a state in India should not jeapordize our own national security. The civilian plight over there is also because of the LTTE as they are using them as human shield. They don't want the civilians to flee as they will then be finished in a jiffy.
The latest ceasefire call by LTTE is nothing but a bid to buy do a time and regroup.
 

Rage

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Bomb blast in office kills one, injures two in China

China National News
Thursday 2nd April, 2009 (IANS)


Urumqi (China), April 2 (Xinhua): A bomb blast in an office building Thursday left one dead and two injured in Urumqi in China's northwestern Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, the police said.

A man detonated the explosives at 2.10 p.m., killing himself, the police said. Two other people were injured in the explosion.

Han Wushun, 42, threatened the office workers and demanded the company, Xinjiang Beixin Road and Bridge Construction Co. Ltd, to pay him 4,500 yuan ($662) in unpaid wages, before detonating the explosives, the police said.

Han had sued the company for the money, but lost the case in July last year, police said.

Han walked into the first floor of the building and told an office worker that 'Society is unfair. I don't want to live any more'.

Han said he wanted to talk to the head of the company.

The explosion damaged some office facilities, according to police.

The police launched an investigation into the incident.


Bomb blast in office kills one, injures two in china
 

vish

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Paritosh, firstly, sorry for the late response.

we surely would want to differ from the yank philosophy...India is not america my friend..
It is not about being like America, it is about being India. Were India and Indian kingdoms ever bothered with what happened outside the sub-continent? No; we were/are very happy going ahead with our lives and mucking around. We wish economic prosperity and not global hegemony.

apart from Muralidaran and M.I.A...how many Lankan tamils have you heard of?
there are none...Sri Lanka treats it's tamil population as 'Indian illegal settlers'...after the LTTE is wiped out....the tamils would be defenseless again...they have no voting rights...and no employment opportunities...
And you really think GoI will let the Sinhalese go ahead with ethnical genocide? No, I do not think so. We wish that the LTTE die a brutal death and that the GoSL accommodate the Tamils as its own citizens. And we will make sure that the GoSL does so.

you know what is POK called by the united nations..?it's called 'Azad Kashmir'....
When was the last time AJK had a voice on the UN floor?

the pakistanis spend a substantial amount in lobbying for the cause of 'their' Kashmir...there is absolutely no nation...which confidently supports the Indian hold over Kashmir...
The last time I checked, people had begun referring to our side of J&K as Indian-controlled Kashmir. Also, what do the recent turns made by the US indicate?

well no one can get tibet back to the tibetans...but right from Richard Gere to lindsay lohan...to the rage against the machine...the tibetan issue has in a large way contributed in creating the 'Evil China' america is out against...
So it is America's fault that China invaded Tibet?

yeah they are not the NRIs wooed by the GOI to bring home millions of dollars are they?
They bring votes.

why did rajiv gandhi send the IPKf if the fate of these tamils wasnt important to us?
Please clarify; didn't get you.

rajiv gandhi should have used diplomacy instead of military...it was a stupid move...it wsn't a political solution.
We tried to use diplomacy and sending the IPKF was a part of it. We thought the LTTE would behave and not attack us. We game-planned everything on the LTTE toeing our line. The plan was to send the IPKF, disarm the radical Tamils, limit the radical Sinhalese and enforce a settlement. The LTTE effed it up.

do one thing...try to look up all of your fav sites...and try to figure out how many tamils are dying each day..there'd be no bang-bang...this time...the tamil resistance is a spent force...the GoSL wouldn't budge...
I'm not denying the excesses done by GoSL at various points in time, but the LTTE is no saint. Also, the LTTE is definitely not part of the solution, but rather part of the problem.

Paritosh, we will make sure GoSL treats the Tamils fairly. Plus, do you really think GoSL has learned nothing from the LTTE affair? They know they have to live with the Tamils and that ethic segregation yields nothing.
 

Paritosh

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Paritosh, firstly, sorry for the late response.



It is not about being like America, it is about being India. Were India and Indian kingdoms ever bothered with what happened outside the sub-continent? No; we were/are very happy going ahead with our lives and mucking around. We wish economic prosperity and not global hegemony.
yeah right...my point being the same...
And you really think GoI will let the Sinhalese go ahead with ethnical genocide? No, I do not think so. We wish that the LTTE die a brutal death and that the GoSL accommodate the Tamils as its own citizens. And we will make sure that the GoSL does so.
and how exactly do you propose our govt ought to be handling that..?
we have been hoping for the last 30 years...an did they bring about the much sought after '13th ammendment' to their 'Ceylon citizenship act of 1947'?
i repeat that i favor a peaceful solution...but it's not that the LTTE was formed by the tamils without their having tried all the other peaceful political methods....their political parties won every election for the northern and n-eastern constituencies..but they were barred from having any sort of a political say...when it comes to survival...it is the right of every being to fight for it...
When was the last time AJK had a voice on the UN floor?
not the point...POK being referred to as 'Azad Kashmir' makes it AK on all atlases and globes....you havent heard of the struggle of the indian diplomats in trying to keep the name to POK or anyhting but AK...the indian rep to the un was slammed by the council...big diplomatic boost for the pakistanis...read about it..

The last time I checked, people had begun referring to our side of J&K as Indian-controlled Kashmir. Also, what do the recent turns made by the US indicate?
not the point ...i was pointing out the brash way in which pakistan stands up for it's 'muslim kashmir'....the muslim world for gaza...etc
So it is America's fault that China invaded Tibet?
huh?

They bring votes.
how exactly?...and even if they do...that should not make them more Indian than the ones in SL...




We tried to use diplomacy and sending the IPKF was a part of it. We thought the LTTE would behave and not attack us. We game-planned everything on the LTTE toeing our line. The plan was to send the IPKF, disarm the radical Tamils, limit the radical Sinhalese and enforce a settlement. The LTTE effed it up.
well i am not sure of what we planned to achieve...but the immediate aftermath of the VP singh govt's action of removing the IPKF was hat the tamils were left with even larger parts of NE SL....and the SL army had to start all over again to gain control....

I'm not denying the excesses done by GoSL at various points in time, but the LTTE is no saint. Also, the LTTE is definitely not part of the solution, but rather part of the problem.
i partly agree...Vish, i am against the use of violence as the primary tool for solving political problems...the tamils did not want Elam...but EQUAL political rights...which they were denied outright...LTTE was their last resort...dont you agree?

Paritosh, we will make sure GoSL treats the Tamils fairly. Plus, do you really think GoSL has learned nothing from the LTTE affair? They know they have to live with the Tamils and that ethic segregation yields nothing.
the SL govt has traditionally been very stubborn in handling this issue...their leaders have made outrageous statements...calling the tamils as 'infidels' and 'impure scum of the north' and what not...they are adamant at keeping their buddhist lineage pristine...recent statements made by rajaprakasa...have indicated a slight change in this...
 

pyromaniac

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China a 'peaceful force' in Beijing's response to defence paper

"China is a peaceful force that forms no threat to any other countries," Foreign Ministry spokesman Ma Zhong Xu said in answer to questions from The Australian. "(We hope) neighbour countries will view China's military build-up objectively, without bias."

Public response to the white paper in China has been subdued as Australian diplomats work behind the scenes in an attempt to quell any disquiet over the new document, which calls for a major Australian naval build-up to counter the rise of China.

The Chinese navy has almost doubled the number of secret long-distance patrols conducted by its submarines in the past year, reflecting its growing assertiveness in the region.

Australia's spy agencies noted the jump in Chinese submarine activity at the same time as military chiefs were penning the new defence white paper, released last week, which called for a doubling of the Royal Australian Navy's future submarine fleet.

In Washington yesterday, the chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Michael Mullen, said the US would need to work more closely with Pacific allies such as Australia to respond to Beijing's increasing military capabilities.

He said the US and Australia would have to do more to build trust with China but he warned that Beijing needed to be more transparent about its big increases in defence spending to ensure there were no "miscalculations" in the Asia-Pacific.

Admiral Michael Mullen told a defence conference in Washington that China's build-up of sea and military air power appeared to be aimed at counterbalancing US power in the Pacific.

"They are developing capabilities that are very maritime focused, maritime and air focused, and in many ways, very much focused on us," he said.

His comments are in line with the Pentagon's strategic assessments of Beijing's growing military might and echo the Rudd Government's defence white paper released at the weekend which focused on the rise of China.

Mr Ma declined to say how China's leaders had reacted to the white paper or whether the new defence strategy would have any bearing in free trade talks.

Trade Minister Simon Crean begins his second visit in a month to China today. Mr Crean will visit the southern province of Yunnan, which has strong trade links with Australia, as well as Shanghai.

Australia's navy will continue to be dwarfed by those of China, India and Japan even if the Government achieves its white-paper plans to substantially boost naval firepower.

The white paper foreshadows the largest naval build-up since World War II with the acquisition of three air warfare destroyers, eight new powerful frigates, 12 new submarines, new naval helicopters and 20 beefed-up patrol craft by 2030.

But the navies of China and India are expanding at a much faster rate, and Australia is likely to struggle to maintain its relative strategic weight in the region.

China's naval chief, Admiral Wu Shengli, said last month his navy would "move faster in researching and building new-generation weapons to boost the ability to fight regional sea wars".

China is upgrading and expanding its fleet of 74 combat ships as well as acquiring new amphibious boats that can transport a battalion group of troops.

It is also upgrading its 60-boat submarine fleet, which includes at least two nuclear missile launching vessels, and is believed to be planning an aircraft carrier.

US naval intelligence recently reported a declassified assessment of Chinese submarine activity that found the number of long-distance Chinese submarine patrols rose to 12 last year compared with seven in 2007.

This compares with two patrols in 2006 and none in 2005, showing China's naval ambitions are rapidly expanding, although its submarine activity is still much less than the US, which has in excess of 100 patrols a year.

In November 2007, US military chiefs were caught by surprise when a Chinese submarine surfaced near the supercarrier USS Kitty Hawk in the middle of a US naval exercise.

China in March unveiled its official military budget for this year of $US70.24 billion, the latest in nearly two decades of double-digit rises in declared defence spending. Undeclared spending is believed to be substantially higher.

Despite Beijing's attempts to develop a blue-water navy that can project military power far from China's shores, Australia believes will be several decades before it could threaten US dominance in the Pacific.

India is the other Asian power building up long-range strategic naval capabilities in the region.

New Delhi plans to increase the size of its navy by more than 20 per cent by 2017 with plans to include modern aircraft carriers to replace its single, 50-year-old carrier the INS Viraat.

However, Australia's nearest large neighbour, Indonesia, has not joined the rush to expand its naval reach.

China a 'peaceful force' in Beijing's response to defence paper | The Australian


Peaceful my ass, china is one of the most aggressive countries in the world
 

Sam Dhanraj

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Chinese Concept Model AC

This seems to be a unique concept model of Chinese AC which they are exploring. It has a very unique configuration with upto six catapults. (Attached)


Picture Source: DTI - Defense Technology International (May 2009)

China Links Power To Economic Security​


May 4, 2009
By Richard D. Fisher, Jr.

In leaks to Japanese and Hong Kong reporters in January, PLA and Chinese shipbuilding officials said that by 2020, the navy may have up to four indigenously designed and built aircraft carriers, two conventional and two nuclear. In addition, the Russian-Ukrainian carrier Varyag, acquired by China in 2002, will be refurbished for training.

Russian technology may figure heavily in carrier designs. In April, a Chinese television show interviewed experts who speculated that the new carrier would be similar to the Varyag, and employ a ski-jump. But the show also explored a unique configuration with up to six catapults. Carriers may be built at Dalian, the location of the Varyag, and at an expanded shipyard on Changxing Island near Shanghai. An early base for China’s carrier force will likely be a new naval base on Hainan Island.

What do the experts can make out of it in terms of feasibility of this model ?
 

kuku

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Varyag plus 2 conventional carriers plus 2 nuclear carriers, Not going to happen by 2020.

The Charles de Gaulle, the French have a tradition at building aircraft carrier for some decades now, and they took the USA consulting for their project, added to that their were problems, which are expected in a new design.



The six catapult carrier seems PLA-N porn, its a design, sure but its from a nation with no experience in building or operating them before.

They will need the Varyag to be operational before the new carriers commission in to PLAN as no nation can accommodate their crew and pilots for training on a operational aircraft carrier for training.
If they dont they will have a carrier with personnel that will have to learn to operate them while also training another crew for the second in class ship.

Every chance of PLA-N with 2 conventional copies of the Varyag carrier with some modifications (for e.g. in propulsion) sourced from Russia/Ukraine by 2020.

After that its up to how well their economy does, once they have the program in place to design the ships, the shipyards equipped and trained to build the ships and a training program for the crew and pilots, its up to them to build as many as they want. possibly they will explore other modern options post 2020.
 

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