Chinese PM Li's visit to India

bose

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But then, they are such a delight.

One must understand them!

And also their Chinese Communist psychology and convoluted arguments, trotted out so glibly and with the same refrain! No change but parrot like.

Note they will always talk of the market, economy, their internal quest for harmonious existence and so many such pithy issues!

Totally charming!
I admire your patience and brilliant articulation"¦
 

bose

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But then, they are such a delight.

One must understand them!

And also their Chinese Communist psychology and convoluted arguments, trotted out so glibly and with the same refrain! No change but parrot like.

Note they will always talk of the market, economy, their internal quest for harmonious existence and so many such pithy issues!

Totally charming!
I have a feeling [correctly or otherwise] by mixing with chinese that they have not yet recovered from the shame of WW-II and suffer from insecurity some where down the line... One can see that v/s Japanese certain scense of inferiority complex...

They are very impatient to prove that they are something important and want a place globally... Thanks to their stupidity they will always be looked upon with suspicion & hate...
 
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Ray

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I have a feeling [correctly or otherwise] by mixing with chinese that they have not yet recovered from the shame of WW-II and suffer from insecurity some where down the line... One can see that v/s Japanese certain scense of inferiority complex...

They are very impatient to prove that they are something important and want a place globally... Thanks to their stupidity they will always be looked upon with suspicion & hate...
This might give you some idea of the Chinese insecurity

ORIGIN MYTHS OF NATIONS
- Narratives secretly countered


Ramachandra Guha

The southern coastal city of Xiamen is a showpiece for the new China. A hub of investment and industry, it faces Taiwan. The Taiwanese have invested massively in Xiamen, as have the overseas Chinese. The streets are wide and the pavements properly paved; the buildings very large and built to last. This is the kind of place calculated to make an Indian feel inferior about his country and angry with his country's politicians. in other words, keeping up with the Jonese, like the developed counutries aiming to say please treat us as your equal! The hort explanation - show casing. This is the outcome of a sense of inferiority caused by their own admission of 100 YEARS OF SHAME!

We crossed into Xiamen on what was described as the "second longest hanging bridge in the world". Later, we passed the "second largest convention centre in Asia". The scale of the public architecture was impressive; what struck me more forcibly, however, was the character of the public art. In the square outside our hotel were a series of sculpted soldiers in uniform. Some were carrying cocked rifles. At least two had grenades in their hands. The soldiers were made of black stone, and lined up in a row, leading up to a small hill on which two helmeted men were planting the flag of the People's Republic. note: everything is portrayed as a comparison. In other words, the architectural and engineering feat is not material. What is material is - we are as good as the world. It emanates from a sense of deep INSECURITY!

My hosts told me that such exhibits are common in China. In towns small and large, public squares are filled in with sculpted soldiers in uniform. This is natural, for the country won its independence and national unity through long, bloody wars against Japanese and Western colonists. NOte: 100 YEARS OF SHAME is deep seated in them and they do everything to run away from history!The People's Liberation Army remains the largest standing force in the world. Still, to this visiting Indian, the row of muscular young soldiers in Xiamen was, in every way, absolutely the 'other' of a public sculpture he knew very well — Gyara Murti, the row of eleven men, a Mahatma and his disciples, on their way to break the salt laws at the sea in Dandi, created by Debiprasad Roychowdhury and displayed at the junction of Sardar Patel Marg and Mother Teresa Crescent in New Delhi. The leader there is old, and carrying a staff; and his followers are not, in a physical sense at least, fine specimens of Indian manhood. Note the difference of the Indian mentality! We are pacifist to a fault!

In India, the story of a freedom won by non-violence is answered by a counter-narrative: that privileging the machismo, the militant tradition of armed resistance to British colonialism, as embodied most commonly in the helmet of Bhagat Singh and the khaki uniform of Subhas Chandra Bose. These secular leftists are sometimes joined, in the consciousness of the anti-Gandhian, by radical Hindus such as Swami Vivekananda and V. D. Savarkar. In shops across India, calendars and posters of Bose, Vivekananda and even Bhagat Singh must outsell those of Gandhi by a factor of two to one. In China, however, there is no public counter-narrative to the nation's origin myth — perhaps because it is not a democracy (and thus the official narrative cannot be openly challenged by citizens), or perhaps because of the still massive presence of the PLA, or perhaps the country still perceives itself as under threat from malevolent foreigners. Note:In India there are all views, but in China there is JUST ONE as ordered by the CCP

Driving through Xiamen, I came across another example of public art, equally heroic, this time capturing China's arrival on the world stage rather than the birth of China as a nation. Note; they are only interested in capturing China's arrival on the world stage rather than the birth of China as a nation that is dynamic in its own way and getting its place in the sun. The city is home to what our guide described as "the most scenic marathon in the world". This cannot be true — for Google informs me there is a Cape Town marathon Noe how falsehood is trotted out so silvery smooth thinking that foreigners are as ill informed as them who only are aware as to what the CCP informs them - as is in this case!) — but the route of this race is scenic enough. It follows a fine promenade, running for miles along the sea. On one side are palm trees, swaying gently in the breeze; on the other (sea-facing) side, large villas and luxury hotels. This could be Long Beach, except for the statuary on display, which tells us that we are not in California (nor in Cape Town either). Thus, along the grassy patch that divides the two sides of the road, there are a series of figures sculpted in dark stone. A runner striding forward, his body leaning low, seeking to keep up with the leaders. Another runner, pausing briefly in mid-stride, pouring water over his head from a bottle. A third athlete in an upturned baseball cap (meant, I guess, to be an American), and a fourth with crinkled hair, representing the African or perhaps more particularly the Ethiopian dimension of this international race. The row of runners is preceded by two men in casual clothing, squinting intensely into cameras — press photographers capturing the event for posterity. Note how they are again trying to show that they have arrived and also attempt to soft soap)

Unlike the large, lovely bridge, or the solid and smart office blocks, or the clean streets completely free of garbage, this display left me less than impressed. For it spoke of a deep cultural insecurity. Would the New York or Paris or London Marathon display themselves in this way? Of course not. Those cities do not need to advertise their global significance. To them, the fact that athletes come from across the world does not need to be publicly bragged about. (For so do musicians, artists, scientists, writers, and restaurateur.) There, the annual marathon blends into the deep civilizational history of the city and into its contemporary chaos as well.

Our bus stopped, to allow us to stretch our legs and admire the sea. As my colleagues made for the beach, I found myself looking at a very large sign instead. It was not visible from inside the bus, but when viewed from the roadside it dwarfed the marathon runners. The sign was raised up on high concrete pillars. It displayed a set of Chinese letters, running across a banner some 200 metres wide, that looked out across the Taiwan Straits. I asked a Chinese-speaking colleague to read and translate it for me. It was Deng Xiaoping's famous statement, "One Country, Two Systems". Aimed to subvert Taiwan thought as also propaganda for foreign tourists! Two birds with one stone!) Deng coined the phrase in the 1980s, to encourage Hong Kong, Macau, and Taiwan to reunite with the mainland. He sought to assure these capitalist enclaves that they could maintain their economic freedoms, even after they lost their political autonomy by becoming part of the People's Republic.

Macau and Hong Kong have since become 'Special Administative Regions' of the PRC, ruled from Beijing. But Taiwan is still holding out. Deng's sign, mixing affection with chastisement, now spoke to the recalcitrants. Although I could not tell for sure from where I was, surely it was lit up at night, visible to the islands close to Xiamen, to be seen by boats of Taiwanese pleasure-seekers, and perhaps by passengers in planes too.

Since China is not a democracy, there can be no public, collective, challenge to the Communist Party's interpretation of the nation's history. But there are nonetheless some individual and private challenges. There is, for instance, a growing interest in Gandhi among Chinese intellectuals and human rights activists. They find his message of inter-faith harmony and his principled commitment to non-violence extremely appealing.

On a recent visit to the People's Republic, I found that a prominent Chinese blogger has a photograph of Gandhi on his home page. Another admirer of Gandhi is the Nobel laureate Liu Xiabao, imprisoned because he asked for greater freedom of expression for citizens. Harvard University Press has published a recent collection of his essays, called No Enemies, No Hatred. The title is very Gandhian. As it happens, the book has several appreciative references to Gandhi. Thus in January 2000, Liu Xiabao wrote:

"Compared to people in other nations that have lived under the dreary pall of communism, we resisters in China have not measured up very well. Even after so many years of tremendous tragedies, we still don't have a moral leader like Vaclav Havel. It seems ironic that in order to win the right of ordinary people to pursue self-interest, a society needs a moral giant to make a selfless sacrifice. In order to secure 'passive freedom' — freedom from state oppression — there needs to be a will to do active resistance. History is not fated. The appearance of a single martyr can fundamentally turn the spirit of a nation and strengthen its moral fibre. Gandhi was such a figure."

There are, as we know, many Maoists in India, whose lesser acts of violence include decapitating statues of Mahatma Gandhi. It is heartening to know that there are now at least a few Gandhians in China, whose challenge to Mao and his legacy is based not on armed struggle, but on active, non-violent, resistance.

The Telegraph - Archives
 

Ray

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@bose,

Do not get exasperated by the Chinese.

Read the article by Ram Guha and you will understand them better.

They are currently schizophrenic (not meant in an derogative manner, but just as an easy way to explain).

Their philosophy is Communist, when they are actually out and out aping capitalists in reality.

They have achieved immensely, but the world is still treating them with disdain and not with what they feel should be their rightful credit.

And so there is this huge churn in their psyche and sometimes, they appear confused.

Anyone would be confused if the exists in an environment of strong opposing polarity of governance and existential reality!
 
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sayareakd

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massive Traffic Jams all round central Delhi it took me half an hour to cover the distance of 2km, yesterday too i was stop due to this Chini around airport road, why the hell, we even entertain them in first place?
 

Ray

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massive Traffic Jams all round central Delhi it took me half an hour to cover the distance of 2km, yesterday too i was stop due to this Chini around airport road, why the hell, we even entertain them in first place?
Sorry that you had some problems with the traffic.

I am sure you will appreciate that Li required some leeway!
 

Ray

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@bose,

China is a fascinating country.

Great civilisation.

Great history.

Great imperialism.

Great ways they converted all what they called 'barbarians' into Han!

Totally a maze and so fascinating.

They called the Yues barbarians because they had tattoos.

Chinese writers depicted the Yue as barbarians who had tattoos, lived in primitive conditions, and lacked such technology as bows, arrows, horses and chariots.



By Chinese standards, Beckham is a Yue and a barbarian! :rofl:
 
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nrupatunga

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[Tweet]335623703184416770[/Tweet]

[Tweet]335265312746393600[/Tweet]

[Tweet]335262494572560384[/Tweet]
 
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t_co

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This is the kind of place calculated to make an Indian feel inferior about his country and angry with his country's politicians.
@Ray, Ram Guha is drastically mistaken if he thinks that public monuments and architecture in a second-tier Chinese city have anything to do with trying to 'impress the world'. They're built to impress the provincial bosses.

Instead of trying to tease out a sense of insecurity from China's own public architecture, how about analyzing the ridiculous attitude of insecurity (and racist hate) the Indian media and sites like DFI hold towards China?
 
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t_co

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India-China Agreements: No. 1, Buffalo Meat - India Real Time - WSJ

China and India signed eight agreements during the first full day of Chinese Premier Li Keqiang's visit to India.

None of them were ground-breaking; no resolutions on long-standing problems such as the disputed border or the Tibetan homeland.

But here's a look at what they did agree on, and what it might mean for India.

1. Buffalo Meat

An agreement on the trade in buffalo meat including minimum safety requirements for the meat was signed by India's ministry of commerce, industry and textiles and China's ministry of quality supervision, inspection and quarantine.

India is currently the world's largest exporter of buffalo meat selling $3.2 billion to more than 65 countries, according to a person with knowledge of the export market. But it has missed out on the growing Chinese market for the food because it exports it via a third country, the person said, declining to name the third party.

Meat industry insiders in India hope that the agreement will pave the way to direct exports of buffalo meat to China and help redress the trade imbalance between the two countries, which is strongly weighted in China's favor. India's trade deficit to China reached $40 billion in the financial year ended March 2012.

The Chinese demand for Indian buffalo could be worth $1.5billion a year, industry experts said.

2. China has agreed to provide more information about how its dams are affecting the flow of rivers that discharge into Indian territory. China's dam building has been a source of contention between the countries as Indian is concerned its farmers will be left with too little water.

Under this agreement China will provide India with information on the water level, discharge and rainfall between 8am and 8pm (Beijing Time) twice a day from June 1st to October 15th each year from three hydrological stations on the Brahmaputra river.

3. Pilgrims

The two sides agreed to improve facilities for pilgrims on the Kailash Mansarovar Yatra to south Tibet, which take places every year from May to September.

China agreed to improve facilities on the route and to help pilgrims rent wireless sets and local SIM cards for cell phones.

The site at Mount Kailash is remote and currently has few amenities or hotels, according to travel agents working in the area. Lal Sodari, director of Kailash Mansarovar Yatra, a private travel agency running trips to the pilgrimage site, said the agreement would make the journey easier for pilgrims.

Hindus believe the site of the pilgrimage is the home of Lord Shiva, but it also holds religious significance for Jains and Buddhists.

In 2012, a record number of 774 people took part in the pilgrimage to the site organized by India's foreign ministry, for which only Indians, picked by ballot, are eligible.

4. Sewage

An agreement for better cooperation in sewage treatment might not immediately sound that thrilling, but the two most populous countries on earth have agreed to share their experiences of dealing with waste generated by their collective 2.5 billion residents.

Pretty crucial, we'd say.

5. Working groups

Three working groups to look at service trade promotion, economic and trade planning cooperation, and trade statistical analysis were set up under an agreement between the countries' ministries of commerce.

6. Water technology

This interim agreement aims to enhance cooperation in ways to use water efficiently for irrigation in agriculture. Most of India's large farming community relies on rainwater that falls mainly during the monsoon months to irrigate their crops.

7. Translation of books

The countries signed a memorandum of understanding on the translation of 50 books and contemporary classical works from China and India into Chinese and Indian languages. It was unclear which Indian works will be translated under the agreement.

8. Twinning

Both sides agreed to identify sister cities and sister states or provinces.
 

MAYURA

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They called the Yues barbarians because they had tattoos.

Chinese writers depicted the Yue as barbarians who had tattoos, lived in primitive conditions, and lacked such technology as bows, arrows, horses and chariots.
the chinese were right in calling yue who were ancestors of vietnamese as barbarians as they did not know agriculture, lived by hunting and gathering and went about naked.

before lambasting chinese. tell me which race in world would not call such people as barbarians?


People like beckham are in many ways reverting to those tribal ways atleast in mating and tatooing.
 

MAYURA

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@Ray, Ram Guha is drastically mistaken if he thinks that public monuments and architecture in a second-tier Chinese city have anything to do with trying to 'impress the world'. They're built to impress the provincial bosses.

Instead of trying to tease out a sense of insecurity from China's own public architecture, how about analyzing the ridiculous attitude of insecurity (and racist hate) the Indian media and sites like DFI hold towards China?


Indian GDP is 2 trillion whereas chinese is 8 trillion so the insecurity is real and very concrete. you will always fear a four times larger neighbour who in the past has told you the taste of defeat.

on the other hand, anyone taking japan seriously is joker as the country is in decline and will be relegated to obscurity in coming years notwithstanding its technical accomplishments in FMCG.
 

t_co

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Indian GDP is 2 trillion whereas chinese is 8 trillion so the insecurity is real and very concrete. you will always fear a four times larger neighbour who in the past has told you the taste of defeat.
By that criterion, though, shouldn't Russia fear China even more than India? After all, at least India's GDP and population is growing, while Russia's population is shrinking and large parts of its land bordering China are becoming completely depopulated (of native-born Russians, at least). And yet Russia and China can come to terms - not as allies or best friends, no - but at least with a sober and realistic mutual assessment that tries to manage areas of dispute and magnify areas of partnership.

on the other hand, anyone taking japan seriously is joker as the country is in decline and will be relegated to obscurity in coming years notwithstanding its technical accomplishments in FMCG.
The threat posed by a nation is a product of its intent and capability. While the capability of Japan is undoubtedly in decline, the intent of Japan to cause harm to China has risen dramatically in recent years, especially with the recent election of Shinzo Abe to the PM seat. His defense minister wants to build nuclear weapons and enough ships and aircraft to hold all of China's shipping lanes hostage, his finance minister is waging open warfare on China's, South Korea's, and Taiwan's exports via currency devaluation, and he himself dreams of a 'strong Japan' built on the back of the same Military Keynesianist policies that put Germany and Japan into a dead-end choice between war or bankruptcy in the 1930s. And that's not even counting his ridiculous views on Japan's WW2 history and tacit endorsement of politicians that deny atrocities like the Nanjing Massacre, biological warfare testing via Unit 731, and mass sex slavery.

If Japan could just learn to manage its own decline gracefully, there would be no friction between China and Japan, but it seems that Japan is determined not to go quietly into that good night. Well, then China is under no obligations to refrain from giving Japan a good nudge into obscurity...
 

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Yes, I did, and that is how decisions are made in CPC politburo.

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2
According to you what is democracy my dear friend????????
 

shom

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@Ray, Ram Guha is drastically mistaken if he thinks that public monuments and architecture in a second-tier Chinese city have anything to do with trying to 'impress the world'. They're built to impress the provincial bosses.

Instead of trying to tease out a sense of insecurity from China's own public architecture, how about analyzing the ridiculous attitude of insecurity (and racist hate) the Indian media and sites like DFI hold towards China?
Did you say Racist???? hahahahahahaaa,,, you people best known as traitors, backstabbers, we gave you love like brother and you gave us hatred and war. You people are the largest exporter to India,, still you people conquer our territory and claim it to be yours,,, it is you who have occupied Tibet and taken their Independence away,,, and you say we are racist,,, please don't make us laugh dude,,, don't make us laugh. No body on earth wants war except you people. please leave this Warly attitude or else you people will get a good return with the interest in near future.
 
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no smoking

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Did you say Racist???? hahahahahahaaa,,, you people best known as traitors, backstabbers, we gave you love like brother and you gave us hatred and war.
You gave us the love? Yes, in the mouth while your action directed the different way! Do I need to remind you the "forward policy"?

You people are the largest exporter to India,, still you people conquer our territory and claim it to be yours,,,
Just as you claim our territory to be yours! That is called "disput".

it is you who have occupied Tibet and taken their Independence away,,,
I am sorry: since their ancestors sold themselves to Qing emperor, we've never given their independence back! We can't take the same thing away twice!

and you say we are racist,,, please don't make us laugh dude,,, don't make us laugh. No body on earth wants war except you people. please leave this Warly attitude or else you people will get a good return with the interest in near future.
No body wants war? Oh, no, my friend. When you started your "forward policy", it was a behavior of WAR!
 

Ray

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@Ray, Ram Guha is drastically mistaken if he thinks that public monuments and architecture in a second-tier Chinese city have anything to do with trying to 'impress the world'. They're built to impress the provincial bosses.

Instead of trying to tease out a sense of insecurity from China's own public architecture, how about analyzing the ridiculous attitude of insecurity (and racist hate) the Indian media and sites like DFI hold towards China?
Ram Guha is a historian of repute. He is incisive and given to emotional analysis.

It is not understood how public figurines/statues on the road is meant to please Provincial Bosses.

Am I to understand that you are suggesting that the Provincial bosses own the roads and they alone travel on it?

What are we to understand from the Chinese guide gushing to inform that a bridge is 'second largest A or B in the world'?

Or, 'it is the most scenic marathon in the world' (and interestingly it is not)?

Do Indian says the the Taj Mahal is the most beautiful mausoleum in the world? NO.

We leave it to the others to feel that it is so, without our having to remind them and drilling it into their heads when they visit India.

In so far as Indian media and DFI being racist or disliking the Chinese, you may like to read the papers of India today. Li has been idolised! It is a free media unlike China's and so the opinions are based on facts.

If the Indian media was racists or hating the Han, they should have gone ballistic and not heap praise on Li.

As far as the DFI is concerned, facts given of China is appreciated, though the 'best/ largest/ swankiest' type of postulations are taken for what it deserves - the outpouring of an insecure mind!
 
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