Chinese planes challenge Boeing and Airbus

Discussion in 'China' started by DongFeng, Feb 19, 2010.

  1. DongFeng

    DongFeng New Member

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    BBC World

    The biggest potential threat to the dominance of Western aircraft makers has been unveiled at the Singapore Air Show.

    China's answer to Boeing and Airbus is showing a slender, blue-and-white model of the Comac C919 aircraft for the first time outside the mainland. Its introduction was low-key, a move consistent with how Chinese firms prefer to operate overseas.

    The aircraft, designed and built entirely in China, will compete directly against industry stalwarts A320 and Boeing 737 after completing flight trials in four years. It should be available commercially by 2016.

    "That's our plan," an official from the Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China, or Comac, tells BBC News.

    "But it will be tough to stick to it. These days, delivery dates are often pushed back."

    Next year delivery

    The C919 is part of China's stated goal of developing a homegrown aerospace industry, which may someday challenge Airbus and Boeing's hold on the global market for commercial aviation.

    Comac is likely to build more than 2,000 C919s in the next two decades, with a view to grab a 10% share of the global market for narrow body aircraft.

    It has been a meteoric rise for Comac, established just a year and a half ago.

    Headquartered in Shanghai, the company is fully backed by the central government, as well as by the local government and a number of state-owned firms such as Chinalco and Baosteel.

    Comac has already sold more than 240 of its ARJ-21 twin-engine regional jets to Chinese airlines, as well as to a Laotian carrier and to a unit of General Electric. The plane is scheduled for delivery to customers next year.
     
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  3. Rahul Singh

    Rahul Singh Senior Member Senior Member

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    Please post pics and if possible video too.
     
  4. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    How many customers have lined up to buy these Chinese planes??
     
  5. Koji

    Koji New Member

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  6. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    It can give challenge to Airbus/Boeing if it is priced a magnitude lower than the former, especially in the developing countries. But I' sure China will itself give enough orders that it will be busy for a decade to deliver all of them. Let's see how it will pan out.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2010
  7. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    actually this is a very smart move by China to prevent money going to America and Europe in big ticket items like planes,I hope India learns from this instead of giving these massive orders try to do it indigenously and keep the money in the country.
     
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  8. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    It can't compete if it doesn't meet FAA and EASA certification. The only market for these jets will be regional airlines that operate inside China.
     
  9. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    you are right Armand but the Chinese market is a very big market,enough for the manufacturers to sustain themselves until a time they can get these certifications.
     
  10. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    All one has to do is look to the North to see where authoritarian regime's aviation goes. Russia has a well developed civil aviation industry, far above China's will be for decades, and still prefers Western aircraft to meet demand. Airbus has lowered prices and Air China is buying them up like hotcakes. Exports of Airbus have already increased to China by over 100 units per year, an all time high. With Boeing sanctioned by the CCP, Airbus will be the only game in town. Chinese production of airliners relies on American engines, with this trade war going on the US will likely sanction them killing China's civil aviation hopes while Airbus continues to dominate the world.
     
  11. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

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    Armand....my Man......there you go again, smoking that French crack cocaine !!

    When the Boeing Dreamliner 787 hits the sky, your Airbus customers are going to be running to Boeing.
    Better air-quality, Quieter Engines, Higher Cabin pressure(no more ear popping), Higher Humidity( No more dry throat and nostrils), Cool large windows which darken by pressing a button, Better seats, More fuel economy, easier maintenance.

    Flying passengers are going to start insisting on long distance flights on the Dreamliner not on that monstrocity of a plane like the A380.
     
  12. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    The 787 isn't in the same class as the A380. It is only competing with the smaller cousins of Airbus, mainly A330. The quality control that has gone into the 787 production has been abysmal. On each of the prototypes was found 8,000 faulty fasteners compromising the structural integrity. After this was found out, 61 orders for the plan last year were cancelled. Booking orders have dropped 72% since 2008 before the disaster was uncovered. Passengers will be lucky if the plane doesn't fall apart beneath them.
     
  13. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    Good for China.

    IIRC, the engines will be coming from GE?
     
  14. Rahul Singh

    Rahul Singh Senior Member Senior Member

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    LF, India is behind but not too far. We have two different types of passenger jets on drawing board or beyond. First is RTA-70 two variants 50-70 seater turboprop and 100 seater jetliner. Then HAL is planing a airliner variant of INDO-Russian MTA. If it is build then it will be a wide body 150 seater jetliner in 737 class.


    RTA-70

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    Any news of their timeliness to production?
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2010
  16. Rahul Singh

    Rahul Singh Senior Member Senior Member

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    The deadline for RTA-70 is 2014.
     
  17. Rahul Singh

    Rahul Singh Senior Member Senior Member

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    Isro to join project for passenger plane

    Bangalore: India’s space agency will be made a partner in the country’s Rs2,500 crore passenger plane project so it can share its technology expertise, infrastructure and programme management skills and help avoid the mistakes and delays seen in previous projects.

    The so-called regional transport aircraft, or RTA-70, being designed to carry 70-90 passengers on short-haul routes, is India’s ambitious attempt to build a civilian plane and bridge the gap in aeronautical expertise with countries such as China and Brazil.
    The Indian Space Research Organisation, or Isro, “will be part of a consortium,” said G. Madhavan Nair, chairman of the research council of National Aerospace Laboratories, or NAL, a public-funded agency focused on civil aerospace technologies. “NAL will lead the project.”

    Nair, a former head of Isro, said the plane project would be run by an independent commercial body, with public and private partners, including an overseas aerospace firm. He did not name the private firms.

    The plane project is yet to get government sanction but is listed in the science and technology plan in the 11th Plan that ends in 2012.

    Once approved, the plane project will take around six years to build and be certified for operations, said C.G. Krishnadas Nair, president of the Society of Indian Aerospace Technologies and Industries, or Siati, a body that promotes home-grown enterprises in the aerospace and defence sectors.

    So far, India’s attempts to build civilian planes has had little success. NAL has built two civilian planes so far: Hansa, a two-seater trainer, is being flown in some flying clubs but is not a commercial success yet. Saras, a 14-seater plane project in the works for nearly two decades, has been suspended till an inquiry is completed into the crash of a prototype in March that killed two pilots.

    In the late 1990s, military plane maker Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd, or HAL, and Franco-Italian manufacturer ATR dropped a plan to make turboprop planes jointly in Kanpur, citing limited market opportunity.

    But economic growth since then and the boom in India’s civil aviation sector has presented a fresh opportunity to build planes locally. NAL officials say the sweet spot would be planes that can carry 70-90 passengers over the short haul (up to 1,000km, say, Bangalore to Mumbai) and does not compete with planes of large firms such as Boeing Co. or Airbus SAS.

    Currently, only NAL and HAL build planes in India. In December, Mahindra group become the first private Indian conglomerate to acquire the capability to build aircraft when it bought two Australian aerospace firms for up to Rs175 crore over five years.

    For the RTA-70 project, HAL is the manufacturing partner and firms such as Infosys Technologies Ltd and the local unit of US technology firm Honeywell International Inc. are building some technology components, Satish Chandra, convenor for the RTA programme at NAL, said in a lecture on 30 September.

    The plane is expected to consume around 30% less fuel than existing 70-100-seater passenger aircraft, and have half their maintenance costs through the use of special sensors and coatings. RTA-70 will be able to land and take off on small runways and use satellite navigation, Chandra said.

    “We should make use of all resources (in aerospace) within the country. The aim is to make the project a success,” said Nair of Siati.

    In addition to building rockets and launching satellites, Isro is building a capsule to carry astronauts into space and later to the moon; some of the facilities and technologies it uses for projects such as these could complement NAL’s plane programme. NAL, too, builds and tests technology for Isro’s programmes.

    While Isro’s record of building rockets and launching satellites has improved over the years, it has seen its share of delays. The Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle, or GSLV rocket, with an indigenous cryogenic engine, was set for launch by January but has been delayed by at least a year.

    Analysts caution that Isro’s bag is full with projects, including planetary and manned space missions, and even if it is used as a partner, the lead agency should take on the onus of completing the project.

    “Why just Isro, you can use any resource available in the country, but the least you should do is to have one person or agency that should be accountable (for the project),” said retired Air Marshal T.J. Master, chairman of Master Aerospace Consultants (Pvt.) Ltd, an aerospace advisory. “It should be made a commercial success and that should be the drive.”
     
  18. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

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  19. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Oracle likes this.
  20. kewell333

    kewell333 New Member

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    China now has XingZhou series(60 seats) and ARJ-21(90 seats) in use. C919 will be 150 seats.
    each of them have hundreds orders now.
     
  21. tony4562

    tony4562 Tihar Jail Banned

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    Embraer jets are no better in this regard. BTW, ARJ-21 uses GE engine, not Snecma. It's the Sukhoi superjet that uses Snecma engine.

    Don't know why you always get simple facts mixed up?

    Today, chinese airlines operate 5 times more jets than their indian counterparts, China Southern alone is greater than all indian airlines combined. This gives chinese aivation industry an advantage India simply won't have. Don't think there will be an indian jet unitl at least 2030.
     

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