CHINESE Medium Altitude Long Endurance DRONES

J20!

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Jane's hasn't had a "military expert" since the 2000s when they had a decent circulation. Now they are just another rag using Google Earth as a source to publish undocumented trash. If the UAE had placed an order for Chinese drones, we would know about it just like we know that Iraq did. They probably belong to Iraq and are getting transferred around the Arab coalition considering it was Arab money that bought them.
I repeat the UAE has been operating Wing Loong I UCAVs in Lybia. Not the CH4s operated by the Iraqi air force. Two different manufacturers mate. Ofcourse you know better than the military journalists at Janes' despite continuously having your posts proven wrong.

Neither the Wing Loong I order or delivery to the UAE was announced, but operations continued nonetheless. Why should the same not be true for a Wing Loong II order?

https://thediplomat.com/2017/03/china-scores-biggest-military-export-order-for-killer-drones/

Who do you suppose CAIG is producing these airframes for? The PLAAF hasn't ordered Wing Loong II yet...

 
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Armand2REP

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I repeat the UAE has been operating Wing Loong I UCAVs in Lybia. Not the CHris operated by the Iraqi air force. Ofcourse you know better than the military journalists at Janes' despite continuously being proven wrong.

Neither their order or delivery to the UAE was announced, but operations still continue. Why should the same not be true for a Wing Loong II order?
You say they bought them, show us the news that they did. That will end any debate. Considering there is no confirmation I am suggesting they are from Iraq and being used by the Arab coalition. It wouldn't be a secret if they did buy them.
 

J20!

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You say they bought them, show us the news that they did. That will end any debate. Considering there is no confirmation I am suggesting they are from Iraq and being used by the Arab coalition. It wouldn't be a secret if they did buy them.
Your suggestions are BS. As is easily proven, Iraq operates CH4 UCAVs not the CAIG produced Wing Loong I's operated by the UAE alongside their manned aircraft in Lybia. Two different UCAVs two different manufacturers.

http://www.middleeasteye.net/column...retake-oil-crescent-such-short-time-393617622

Sometime between May and June 2016, the UAE deployed six Air Tractors and three Wing Loong drones at Al-Khadim air field. On 4 June, the Shura Council of Benghazi Revolutionaries (SCBR) - a group with ties to al-Qaeda  - released photos of what they claim to be a "US-made bomb used by Emirati aircraft" in Benghazi.


http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...ibya-hosts-attack-aircraft-and-chinese-drones

Here, the UAE has deployed a pocket air force of heavily armed and armored agricultural planes developed into surveillance and light attack platforms–the AT-802U Border Patrol variant of the Air Tractor and the more capable IOMAX Archangel–in addition to S-70 Blackhawks, and Chinese Wing Loong unmanned aircraft, which are loosely analogous the General Atomics MQ-1 Predator.


http://international.minbarlibya.co...loying-fighter-aircraft-to-libya-battlefield/

Since June 2016, the Emirates have based AT-802 turboprop attack planes and Chinese-made Wing Loong drones at the base
, according to the report, which also added that The Emirati fleet has flown air strikes and reconnaissance missions in support of the so-called Libyan National Army troops led by Khalifa Haftar and allegedly fighting Islamist groups in Benghazi.

http://m.aviationweek.com/dubai-air-show-2017/china-s-uavs-proliferate-middle-east

The UAE has gone further and deployed several to Libya’s Marj District to support the Libyan National Army against Islamic fighters there.


But I guess since they didn't hold a "signing ceremony" and make press release when they bought them, those aren't really Wing Loong UCAVs in Emerati air force service. As always, @Armand2REP knows better than everyone else.

Always the naysayer, even in light of clear facts on the ground.
 

Armand2REP

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In response to your late edit...

Who do you suppose CAIG is producing these airframes for? The PLAAF hasn't ordered Wing Loong II yet...

If the product was worthy of the PLAAF they would buy it. If it is not they would sell it like they do the JF-17 to poor countries like Pakistan or how they sold the drones to Iraq. Maybe these are for PLAAF, we do not know as they lack transparency.

Your suggestions are BS. As is easily proven, Iraq operates CH4 UCAVs not the CAIG produced Wing Loong I's operated by the UAE alongside their manned aircraft in Lybia. Two different UCAVs two different manufacturers.
I don't believe that it is as my suggestion that the UAVs are being shared among the Arab Coalition would explain why they are showing up in several different places and then disappearing on the next sat image. There have even been reports of them operating over Egypt which would back up my position even further.

If they are being sold there would be a confirmation that it happened. Chinese state media would be shouting it from the rooftops with pride and the recipients would confirm. So far nothing because there is nothing.
 

J20!

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In response to your late edit...



If the product was worthy of the PLAAF they would buy it. If it is not they would sell it like they do the JF-17 to poor countries like Pakistan or how they sold the drones to Iraq..
The PLAAF already operates the Wing Loong I under the designation WD-1 mate, they will most probably induct Wing Loong II's in due time.



And again, CAIG's Wing Loong I is different from CASC's CH4 chief. The PLAAF operates the Wing Loong not the CH4. You claim to be an expert in Chinese tech, but you're off the mark more often than not.

I don't believe that it is as my suggestion that the UAVs are being shared among the Arab Coalition would explain why they are showing up in several different places and then disappearing on the next sat image. There have even been reports of them operating over Egypt which would back up my position even further.

If you they are being sold there would be a confirmation that it happened. Chinese state media would be shouting it from the rooftops with pride and the recipients would confirm. So far nothing because there is nothing.
Iraq operates CASCs CH4. Saudi Arabia operates CASCs CH4 and might start producing the Rainbow series in-house. State media did not shout about either from the rooftops as you say.

http://defence-blog.com/news/saudi-arabia-unveiled-ch-4-armed-unmanned-aerial-vehicle.html


Egypt procured and operates CAIGs Wing Loong I UCAV. No announcements, no "shouting from the rooftops" necessary,



You see how your "analyses", "suggestions" and opinions that are somehow more enlightened than every military journalist tend to be wrong.

i constantly back up my arguments with imagery and links to source material. All you offer is your "expert" suggestions. I'd rather not waste my time with your nonsense.
 

Armand2REP

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The PLAAF already operates the Wing Loong I under the designation WD-1 mate, they will most probably induct Wing Loong II's in due time.



And again, CAIG's Wing Loong I is different from CASC's CH4 chief. The PLAAF operates the Wing Loong not the CH4. You claim to be an expert in Chinese tech, but you're off the mark more often than not.
That describes perfectly who they are for... China.

Iraq operates CASCs CH4. Saudi Arabia operates CASCs CH4 and might start producing the Rainbow series in-house. State media did not shout about either from the rooftops as you say.

http://defence-blog.com/news/saudi-arabia-unveiled-ch-4-armed-unmanned-aerial-vehicle.html

You see how your "analyses", "suggestions" and opinions that are somehow more enlightened than every military journalist tend to be wrong.

i constantly back up my arguments with imagery and links to source material. All you offer is your "expert" suggestions. I'd rather not waste my time with your nonsense.
As I said before, they are shared by the Arab Coalition so everything you are providing just validates my point, Simple fact is if China was proliferating drones by the hundreds to the Arabs they would let us know and the Arabs would have no problem sharing that fact. Your picture of the so called Saudi drone would have their flag on it if was theirs, the flag is on the trainer aircraft behind it. The drone itself is unmarked which indicates it is not an active unit, probably a static display the way those weapons are situated.

 

J20!

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That describes perfectly who they are for... China.

As I said before, they are shared by the Arab Coalition so everything you are providing just validates my point, Simple fact is if China was proliferating drones by the hundreds to the Arabs they would let us know and the Arabs would have no problem sharing that fact. Your picture of the so called Saudi drone would have their flag on it if was theirs, the flag is on the trainer aircraft behind it. The drone itself is unmarked which indicates it is not an active unit, probably a static display the way those weapons are situated.

I cannot express enough just how little I care about "what you said". Your unsupported opinions and suggestions prove nothing but ignorance.

I thought you were claiming that they were all Iraqi CH4s. Now because it is not marked its a static display?

Can you provide source material supporting your "suggestion" that the Arab coalition shares their CH4's? I can provide source material proving that both Iraq and Saudi Arabia have purchased and operate THEIR OWN CH4 UCAVS. Or are you going to dispute the Saudis themselves now Mr Expert Sir?

http://www.janes.com/article/68975/saudi-arabia-to-build-chinese-uavs

Saudi Arabia to build Chinese UAVs
Jeremy Binnie, London - Jane's Defence Weekly
23 March 2017

Saudi Arabia's King Abdulaziz City for Science and Technology (KACST) announced on 16 March that its president and the chairman of the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation (CASC) had signed a partnership agreement covering the manufacture of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs).

Saudi Arabia already operates the CASC CH-4, seen here at Airshow China 2014. (IHS/Kelvin Wong)

The KACST did not provide further details of the agreement, which was one of several announced during a visit by King Salman bin Abdulaziz al-Saud to China aimed at developing a strategic relationship between the two countries.

Ali Mohammed al-Ghamdi, the CEO of the Taqnia Aeronautics Company, a subsidiary of the Saudi technology development organisation Taqnia, has previously stated on Twitter that an agreement has been signed with China Aerospace Long-March International (ALIT) to manufacture members of the CH family of UAVs in Saudi Arabia.
He said the Saudi-made UAVs would be for both military and civilian purposes and would be marketed to other countries in the region.

ALIT promotes CASC products, including the CH series of UAVs, to foreign customers.

Saudi Arabia confirmed during the induction ceremony for the Royal Saudi Air Force's (RSAF) new F-15SA multirole fighters in February that it already has Chinese UAVs in service.

A photograph emerged from the event showing what appeared to be a more sophisticated version of the CASC CH-4 medium-altitude long-endurance UAV than the one previously displayed by the Iraqi military.
It had a bulge on top of its nose that could accommodate a satellite communications antenna and was displayed with what appeared to be AR-1 laser-guided missiles and FT-9 guided bombs, which are both CASC products that are also used with Iraq's CH-4s.

CASC unveiled the larger CH-5 during Airshow China in November 2016. The company's promotional information states that it has a maximum take-off weight of 2,600 kg with a 900 kg payload, and an endurance of 30 hours when not carrying weapons.

Iraq and Saudi Arabia don't even operate the same variant of the CH4 mate:




It had a bulge on top of its nose that could accommodate a satellite communications antenna and was displayed with what appeared to be AR-1 laser-guided missiles and FT-9 guided bombs, which are both CASC products that are also used with Iraq's CH-4s.

You know very little about Chinese defense tech, yet you claim to know more than Janes' defense journalists.
 
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Armand2REP

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Congratulations! Now let us review how many of these have been sold to Arab clients, it must be in the hundreds right?

UAE = 2 Pterodactyl-1
SKA = 2 Pterodactyl-1, 2 CH-4
Iraq = 4 CH-4

That makes a grand total of 10. Congratulations on selling $30 million worth of defence products. No wonder they never bothered announcing it. Not even India would make a big deal of an order that small.
 

J20!

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Congratulations! Now let us review how many of these have been sold to Arab clients, it must be in the hundreds right?

UAE = 2 Pterodactyl-1
SKA = 2 Pterodactyl-1, 2 CH-4
Iraq = 4 CH-4

That makes a grand total of 10. Congratulations on selling $30 million worth of defence products. No wonder they never bothered announcing it. Not even India would make a big deal of an order that small.
Regardless of how you fudge the numbers, at least you're admitting that the UAE, the Saudis and the Iraqis all operate their own independently procured Chinese MALE UCAVs. Even though you left out Egypt.

India is yet to export the equivalent of the air to ground missiles arming those Chinese UCAV systems, so your attempt at flamebait is quite futile. Good day to you Sir.
 

Armand2REP

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Regardless of how you fudge the numbers, at least you're admitting that the UAE, the Saudis and the Iraqis all operate their own independently procured Chinese MALE UCAVs. Even though you left out Egypt.

India is yet to export the equivalent of the air to ground missiles arming those Chinese UCAV systems, so your attempt at flamebait is quite futile. Good day to you Sir.

The source is SIPRI, I wondered why you hadn't quoted them like you usually do so I just assumed that it was not listed. Curiosity got the best of me so I decided to look and now I know why you didn't post the numbers. You were trying to pass a narrative of wide spread use of your MALE drones when not even a dozen have been sold.
 

J20!

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The source is SIPRI, I wondered why you hadn't quoted them like you usually do so I just assumed that it was not listed. Curiosity got the best of me so I decided to look and now I know why you didn't post the numbers. You were trying to pass a narrative of wide spread use of your MALE drones when not even a dozen have been sold.
I'd love to see those numbers. Please post the link where we can access them.

And are you referring to the number of UCAV systems exported, i.e. ground control station and two UCAVs or individual UCAV airframes? Nice to know that you've gotten over your "Arab coalition UAV pool" nonsense though, its not often the "CHINI expert" admits to falsehoods in his posts.

I only post what can be verified, unlike your "suggestions". CAIG has won the biggest UCAV export order for Wing Loong II UCAVs from an unidentified Middle eastern country, Saudi Arabia has signed an agreement to produce Rainbow series UCAVs. I've provided source material for this.
 
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shiphone

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Off-topic so forgive me, but WTF are those hangars? Even if they are HAS, should they not be dispersed a little more (ok a lot more)?
Tell me if I am wrong, but it looks like poor design to me, no offense to the UAE Air Force.
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...m-altitude-long-endurance-drones.79567/page-5

----------------------------
'All-weather maintenance structures will provide protection to the aircraft'

The coming summer might be relatively cooler for Sukhoi aircraft fleet at city's Indian Air Force (IAF) station in Lohegaon. The station, a home to two squadrons of the country's frontline fighter, has installed All-Weather Maintenance Shelters for the aircraft parked at the station which will protect them from harmful ultraviolet rays of direct sun. So far, the aircraft would be covered by canvas while parked on the tarmac.

Speaking to The Indian Express, an IAF officer said, "Maintenance shelters have been installed at IAF Lohegaon station and have been in place now for about a month or so. The metal-fibre structures are capable of accommodating one aircraft each." Two squadrons of Sukhoi-30 MKI, fighter No. 30 squadron - Rhinos and No. 20 squadron - Lightenings, are stationed at the IAF Lohegaon Station. Third squadron, No. 31 squadron - Lions, was relocated to Jodhpur in September. Maintenance shelters have also been erected at other IAF bases where Sukhois are stationed. The light weight structures are such that even if they fall, the aircraft systems are not damaged.

Sections of the media had reported that the IAF decided to put the maintenance shelters in the aftermath of the Sukhoi-30 MKI crash near Pune. Media reports had also suggested that the crash was a result of exposing the air dominance fighter to harmful ultraviolet rays which resulted in damaging the aircraft's critical systems but the officials rubbished the reports saying the process was initiated about a year ago. A quick search revealed that the IAF had started the process for shelters in December 2010, a year prior to the Pune crash.

"One cannot put two plus two in such cases. If UV rays are to be given a thought, then they are more direct when the aircraft is flying at higher attitudes. The plan has been under consideration for quite some time. In fact, we had made such shelters a part of the original project when we were drafting the contract for Hawk aircraft," said an IAF officer.
-----------------------------

actually IAF is building this 'poor design' here and there for years...



standard auxiliary facility for modern fighting aircrafts.



and the retractable forward deploying shelter

 
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J20!

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  1. Another Chinese MALE UCAV just performed its first flight on the 4th February. Tengeon's second MALE entry, the TA-001. A single engine counterpart to their twin engined TB-001





Specifications

Wingspan: 14.7m
Length: 7.8m
Height: 2.7m
MTOW: 1200kg
Max Payload: 300kg
Flying Range: 3800km
Service Ceiling: 7500m
Max Flight Duration: 24h
 

J20!

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Congratulations! Now let us review how many of these have been sold to Arab clients, it must be in the hundreds right?

UAE = 2 Pterodactyl-1
SKA = 2 Pterodactyl-1, 2 CH-4
Iraq = 4 CH-4

That makes a grand total of 10. Congratulations on selling $30 million worth of defence products. No wonder they never bothered announcing it. Not even India would make a big deal of an order that small.
The source is SIPRI, I wondered why you hadn't quoted them like you usually do so I just assumed that it was not listed. Curiosity got the best of me so I decided to look and now I know why you didn't post the numbers. You were trying to pass a narrative of wide spread use of your MALE drones when not even a dozen have been sold.

Mate. Still waiting for you to post the link to the "SIPRI" export data confirming your made up numbers.

WRT the CH4, the National Science and Technology Progress Award nomination paper notes that 30 CH4's have been exported to Saudi Arabia and Iraq at a total price of $700 million.

Over 1000 sorties and 10000 flight hours accumulated, firing over 400 missiles with accuracy reaching 96% in real combat.



 

Armand2REP

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Mate. Still waiting for you to post the link to the "SIPRI" export data confirming your made up numbers.

WRT the CH4, the National Science and Technology Progress Award nomination paper notes that 30 CH4's have been exported to Saudi Arabia and Iraq at a total price of $700 million.

Over 1000 sorties and 10000 flight hours accumulated, firing over 400 missiles with accuracy reaching 96% in real combat.
I love how you and badguy obfuscate Chinese documents thinking I don't know how to read it. It doesn't say 30 exported to SKA and Iraq. It says that number exported in TOTAL. The SIPRI only goes to the end of 2016 so nothing about it was wrong, this indicates a new sales order.

Funny how that a national award is given two weeks after the sales numbers come into question when no one had answered that in the last five years.

If it really costs $700 million for 30 drones that means a per unit cost of $23.3 million. A Reaper only costs $16.9 million.

Funny how you left out the best part of 100% accuracy in training shots. Like anyone would believe that.:crazy:
 
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rockdog

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Chinese drone unmanned aircraft CH-4V in the Iraqi army aviation


More Pics of CH-4 https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3095332.html


I love how you and badguy obfuscate Chinese documents thinking I don't know how to read it. It doesn't say 30 exported to SKA and Iraq. It says that number exported in TOTAL. The SIPRI only goes to the end of 2016 so nothing about it was wrong, this indicates a new sales order.

Funny how that a national award is given two weeks after the sales numbers come into question when no one had answered that in the last five years.

If it really costs $700 million for 30 drones that means a per unit cost of $23.3 million. A Reaper only costs $16.9 million.

Funny how you left out the best part of 100% accuracy in training shots. Like anyone would believe that.:crazy:

I think it been operational for yrs in mid east, and killed lots of terrors in many nations.

From the video, we would see the Chinese drone exporting, are not only selling the single plane, but the whole system: the dedicated missiles, control & commanding and communication systems.

If there are 1000 times combat flights, we would need to calculate show many missiles, supportive systems, personnel training involved into the contract.
 
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J20!

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I love how you and badguy obfuscate Chinese documents thinking I don't know how to read it. It doesn't say 30 exported to SKA and Iraq. It says that number exported in TOTAL. The SIPRI only goes to the end of 2016 so nothing about it was wrong, this indicates a new sales order.

Funny how that a national award is given two weeks after the sales numbers come into question when no one had answered that in the last five years.

If it really costs $700 million for 30 drones that means a per unit cost of $23.3 million. A Reaper only costs $16.9 million.

Funny how you left out the best part of 100% accuracy in training shots. Like anyone would believe that.:crazy:
You're one to talk about obsfucation. PLEASE PROVIDE THE LINK TO YOUR SIPRI FIGURES.

I asked for a link, not more exposition. You ran away before providing it last time.
 

Armand2REP

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You're one to talk about obsfucation. PLEASE PROVIDE THE LINK TO YOUR SIPRI FIGURES.
Do you not know how to use the SIPRI database? Any five year old can use it.
 

J20!

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Do you not know how to use the SIPRI database? Any five year old can use it.
Are you going to avoid and obsfucate again? You and I both know I've used it and posted a link to it before.

I've provided a clear source from an oversight/awards body. Where's yours?

You posted data, PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK TO THE SOURCE OF YOUR INFORMATION. You always "disapear" when asked to provide your source.
 

rockdog

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I love how you and badguy obfuscate Chinese documents thinking I don't know how to read it. It doesn't say 30 exported to SKA and Iraq. It says that number exported in TOTAL. The SIPRI only goes to the end of 2016 so nothing about it was wrong, this indicates a new sales order.

Funny how that a national award is given two weeks after the sales numbers come into question when no one had answered that in the last five years.

If it really costs $700 million for 30 drones that means a per unit cost of $23.3 million. A Reaper only costs $16.9 million.

Funny how you left out the best part of 100% accuracy in training shots. Like anyone would believe that.:crazy:
Are you going to avoid and obsfucate again? You and I both know I've used it and posted a link to it before.

I've provided a clear source from an oversight/awards body. Where's yours?

You posted data, PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK TO THE SOURCE OF YOUR INFORMATION. You always "disapear" when asked to provide your source.
@J20

I m in Chengdu now for my holiday, and the hotel nearby the No.132 factory, where J20 was born.
When i see the gate of No.132 factory today and recalled that just one day before 2011.1.11, Mr Armand2REP claimed it was just a wooden box, even the prototype J20 appeared in airfield and ready to take off... :biggrin2:

So i don''t think you need to take his judgement too seriously.
 

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