Chinese Jasmine Revolution Spreads Online

[pmaitra]

In an ideal world, sure.

However, we have what we have. Personally I am quite happy with the CPC, though I'm sure that opinions vary.

If the CPC starts to rule poorly, then maybe they will lose the "right to rule" in the eyes of the people, but I don't think that will happen for a very long time. Just my opinion.

Thanks for the response Yan Luo Wang. I get the feeling that you have good qualities (your response was a lot more honest, decent and practical). While we are entitled to have our opinions and have the right to disagree with others, please don't lose these qualities.

-Regards-

P.S.: I added you as a friend.

 

[Ray]

Yan Luo Wang

Have you introduced yourself in the Introduction section?

If not go there and let us know who you are and what you do.

It is mandatory.

Thank you.

 

[Ray]

On August 8, 1966, the Central Committee of the CPC passed its "Decision Concerning the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution" (also known as "the 16 Points").[17] This decision defined the GPCR as "a great revolution that touches people to their very souls and constitutes a new stage in the development of the socialist revolution in our country, a deeper and more extensive stage":
" Although the bourgeoisie has been overthrown, it is still trying to use the old ideas, culture, customs, and habits of the exploiting classes to corrupt the masses, capture their minds, and endeavor to stage a comeback. The proletariat must do just the opposite: It must meet head-on every challenge of the bourgeoisie in the ideological field and use the new ideas, culture, customs, and habits of the proletariat to change the mental outlook of the whole of society. At present, our objective is to struggle against and crush those persons in authority who are taking the capitalist road, to criticize and repudiate the reactionary bourgeois academic "authorities" and the ideology of the bourgeoisie and all other exploiting classes and to transform education, literature and art, and all other parts of the superstructure that do not correspond to the socialist economic base, so as to facilitate the consolidation and development of the socialist system.

Nimo,

Another one to indicate the grip of the CCP over the people and the impression they wish to give to indicate they are ABSOLUTE and anyone who disagrees has no place in China and will be eliminated.

If the bourgeoisie has been overthrown, then how are the influencing the people? Odd!!

And if they are influencing, then it is obvious that the CCP has failed and their ideas are being rejected by some.

And since the CCP cannot convince the people who disagree (like the invisible and possibly non existent bourgeoisie), they want to eliminate them by 'crushing these persons'.

It is this what astounds Indians and others and this incredulity of theirs when expressed, you feel is preaching!!

If crushing people who disagree is the toast of the Chinese people and in which you revel, then say so. End of story. Why pretend something and do something else and then with a straight face spew mealy mouthed pious platitudes and thereafter feign righteous indignation!

Sorry to be blunt, but I am surprised that such a self professed intellectual as you cannot fathom wheat from chaff and instead bow to the mechanics of robotics!

You must forgive me, but you have made me thunderstruck with your belief that the Chinese posters here are better educated than the Indians around here and not an iota of proof have you displayed to back this idea of yours.

You maybe a top CCP apparatchik and the Chinese posters may kowtow to you and your ideas, but then do be clear that your clout does not run here and not for one moment do we believe that you are better educated than us.

 

[badguy2000]

Nimo, from where did you get the impression that we Indians want to dictate terms at the Chinese about how PRC should be run? All I have been trying to convey is that it is the people of PRC (not India) who should decide how PRC should be run. Period. I have no problem if CCP rules PRC. All I want is that CCP should be elected to power by the people of PRC. How difficult is this for you to understand? I would explain this to you in Mandarin or Cantonese if I knew these languages [sigh].

it is not important who is in the power.

it is important that whoever is in the power should provide one peaceful ,orderly and hopeful life for the people.

if CCP can not do the job well, people would naturally go to steet and outthrow CCP like N.Africa.

however, Since CCP perform better than most rulers in the world, why should chinese people overthrow CCP?

 

[pmaitra]

it is not important who is in the power.

it is important that whoever is in the power should provide one peaceful ,orderly and hopeful life for the people.

if CCP can not do the job well, people would naturally go to steet and outthrow CCP like N.Africa.

however, Since CCP perform better than most rulers in the world, why should chinese people overthrow CCP?

Thanks Badguy2000. I had earlier said that you have some good qualities and I think I was right, they are showing in this post of yours.

At least you and I are a little bit closer than we were before.

 

[Ray]

I don't think that the CCP will allow anything to grow like the way it was done in North Africa.

 

[badguy2000]

Thanks Badguy2000. I had earlier said that you have some good qualities and I think I was right, they are showing in this post of yours.

At least you and I are a little bit closer than we were before.

Sima Guang(司马光),One wise ancient CHinese politician once said:

" The political system should be treated as cautiously as your house is .
It should be made to repaired when your house breaks down .
However, People should not demolish and rebuild new one,until your house were to callpase" (治天下譬如居室，敝则修之，非大坏则不更造也!)"

 

[johnee]

Guys, lets not make this chinese vs indians. Everyone knows that the topic here is CPC and its jitters which lead to crackdowns on CHINESE. Now, some clever CPC-loyalists are deflecting it by making it a chinese vs indians, but its not working.

 

[johnee]

it is not important who is in the power.

it is important that whoever is in the power should provide one peaceful ,orderly and hopeful life for the people.

if CCP can not do the job well, people would naturally go to steet and outthrow CCP like N.Africa.

however, Since CCP perform better than most rulers in the world, why should chinese people overthrow CCP?

How do we know that CCP has performed better or worse unless we ask those that are ruled by CCP? It is the chinese, on a whole, that get to be the judges of CCP performance. But CCP is denying the common chinese any chance of protest. By stifling the voices, CCP seeks to give the impression of zero dissidence. The fact that there are crackdowns and internet restrictions are the testimony to public anger and CCP's authoritarianism.

 

[Ray]

Sima Guang(司马光),One wise ancient CHinese politician once said: " The political system should be treated as cautiously as your house is . It should be made to repaired when your house breaks down .However, People should demolish and rebuild new ,until your house callpases" 治天下譬如居室，敝则修之，非大坏则不更造也!"

Good advice.

I am sure people heed it!

Though a Chinese wise man's advice, in India we heed it every 5 years!

 

[Ray]

Sima Guang(司马光),One wise ancient CHinese politician once said: " The political system should be treated as cautiously as your house is . It should be made to repaired when your house breaks down .However, People should demolish and rebuild new ,until your house callpases" 治天下譬如居室，敝则修之，非大坏则不更造也!"

Good advice.

I am sure people heed it!

 

[Virendra]

Guys, lets not make this chinese vs indians. Everyone knows that the topic here is CPC and its jitters which lead to crackdowns on CHINESE. Now, some clever CPC-loyalists are deflecting it by making it a chinese vs indians, but its not working.

yeah ... some cool water and air for everyone ... cheers

 

[Ray]

"The People's Liberation Army of China is a great school for Mao Zedong Thought", I think the caption states.

If so, how?

Yet, it was in China, and possibly still is, swallowed hook, line and sinker.

Therefore, how can one be convinced what the Chinese say, even if he sincerely wants to believe, when what is said does not appear to be normal human logic.

Reminds me of Pavlov and his conditioned canines.

 

[no smoking]

I don't think that the CCP will allow anything to grow like the way it was done in North Africa.

No one is saying that CCP should or would allow the same thing as north africa.

What we are arguing here is if chinese wants a revolution in China NOW! Unlike indians, chineses would love to overthrow any gov by violence if they hate this gov enough. The reason that Tiananmen square could be crashed is that this "revolution" didn't get support of most of Chinese people. Yes, students were there, some workers were there, but so what? There is only one group can overthrow CCP at that time: peasants. Unfortunately, they took CCP's side at that time.

Now, let's look at today's China. There are lots of problems. People rush into the street to protest: their houses, their job, their money. Almost no one is protesting about political cause. Economic problem could not be solved by political method! Even China become democratic tomorrow, these problems would still be there. if any democratic gov wants to solve these problems, they have to use the same method as CCP: fast economic growth. Indians can give their gov 50 years to come up an answer, the chineses don't have this patience.

 

[Ray]

No one is saying that CCP should or would allow the same thing as north africa.

What we are arguing here is if chinese wants a revolution in China NOW! Unlike indians, chineses would love to overthrow any gov by violence if they hate this gov enough. The reason that Tiananmen square could be crashed is that this "revolution" didn't get support of most of Chinese people. Yes, students were there, some workers were there, but so what? There is only one group can overthrow CCP at that time: peasants. Unfortunately, they took CCP's side at that time.

Now, let's look at today's China. There are lots of problems. People rush into the street to protest: their houses, their job, their money. Almost no one is protesting about political cause. Economic problem could not be solved by political method! Even China become democratic tomorrow, these problems would still be there. if any democratic gov wants to solve these problems, they have to use the same method as CCP: fast economic growth. Indians can give their gov 50 years to come up an answer, the chineses don't have this patience.

Someone did say (and I have no desire to trawl the posts) that if the Chinese ever got dissatisfied, then they would do a North Africa.

My contention that it would never be possible no matter what is the situation in China. Historical precedence indicates that the CCP will ruthless will ride over such rebellion.

The Chinese are aware of it and I daresay they will be foolish, or if you don't like that word, courageous enough to challenge the CCP and the PLA.

It is not the question of Chinese having patience or not. It is the question of whether the CCP feels it worth allowing the Chinese their patience or not.

That is the nub of all this discussion.

And not democracy or regime change.

 

[johnee]

Now, let's look at today's China. There are lots of problems. People rush into the street to protest: their houses, their job, their money. Almost no one is protesting about political cause. Economic problem could not be solved by political method! Even China become democratic tomorrow, these problems would still be there. if any democratic gov wants to solve these problems, they have to use the same method as CCP: fast economic growth. Indians can give their gov 50 years to come up an answer, the chineses don't have this patience.

Chinese may or may not have patience, but what they certainly dont have is options. Even if the chinese are not happy with CCP, they have no other option in the present system. The only way is large scale violent revolt that will lead to loss of human life.

Even if the peasants rise in a revolt, CCP will not welcome with garlands. It will use its tanks. Peasants know this and dare not revolt. The only solace was/is/will be the economic wellbeing. If even that is taken away, then the revolt is sure to come.
Of course, the revolt may usher in another authoritarian system to replace CCP.

 

[badguy2000]

No one is saying that CCP should or would allow the same thing as north africa.

What we are arguing here is if chinese wants a revolution in China NOW! Unlike indians, chineses would love to overthrow any gov by violence if they hate this gov enough. The reason that Tiananmen square could be crashed is that this "revolution" didn't get support of most of Chinese people. Yes, students were there, some workers were there, but so what? There is only one group can overthrow CCP at that time: peasants. Unfortunately, they took CCP's side at that time.

Now, let's look at today's China. There are lots of problems. People rush into the street to protest: their houses, their job, their money. Almost no one is protesting about political cause. Economic problem could not be solved by political method! Even China become democratic tomorrow, these problems would still be there. if any democratic gov wants to solve these problems, they have to use the same method as CCP: fast economic growth. Indians can give their gov 50 years to come up an answer, the chineses don't have this patience.

well said.

economic problems can not be solved by poltical method such as revolution.
However, some guys here like kickok can not tell the difference between economic problems and political appeals at all.

 

[badguy2000]

Again, another CNN-style report appears now,with a wrongly quoted picture .

the picture show one protest in Taiwan, but the article said that it is "jasmine revolution" in PRC.....

guy, of course, Chinese people not reposted it in the forum of jokes.
http://www.talkcc.com/thread/3291657
here is the picture

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/kina/artikkel.php?artid=10022328

 

[RedDragon]

It is not that the Indians want a revolution in China.

Neither are Indians ecstatic with the revolutions taking place in the Middle East.

Yet, Indians and people around the world are not too unhappy that it is taking place.

It is not that they dislike the people of the Middle East, it is just that the world feels that people all over the world should be free to be allowed to have an opinion and express it freely without worrying of consequences of an Absolute authority, be it a Dictatorship, a Sheikdom, a Totalitarian regime or a quasi democracy as in Pakistan.

For instance, there is an incorrect view that the world is against Islam. Not at all. It is against fundamentalists. Why? Because they want to impose their philosophy on the world through every means including terrorism.

The human being was born free and so he should live and die free and not be dictated at every step of his life.

That is what most Indians and the world believes in.

India surely want China sunk into chaos, because we are more competitor/enemy than cooperator/friend.

 

[RedDragon]

India surely want China sunk into chaos, because we are more competitor/enemy than cooperator/friend. Like India always wished, this will give the chance for "tortoise" to overtake "hare"