Chinese J-20’s Impact on India & AMCA

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by neo29, Jan 19, 2011.

  1. neo29

    neo29 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Sudden appearance of grainy images of Chinese first Stealth fighter J-20 made quite a buzz in defence forums and blogs around the world, some experts still believed at that time it to be a handiwork of Chinese Photoshop artist, but that believe quickly faded away when better high resolution images started appearing on the internet and soon first flight of the J-20 took place.

    First look at Chinese J-20 and threat level to India: Aircraft seemed to be the world’s first Stealthy Strike fighter aircraft (F-22 and Pak-Fa are considered Air Superiority fighter) which has been optimized for ground attack role, sheer length of the aircraft (estimated to be 60-65 feet long) suggests that, it not only can carry heavy weapons but also larger internal fuel for long range missions, PLAAF must have kept possible future conflicts in mind while working on Air staff requirement. and aircraft like J-20 will have more than 3000km in range which suggests that whole of North India along with North Eastern sector (Possible conflict Zone) will be under its range, a medium range aircraft in class of Mig-29 was good enough for possible conflicts with S Korea, Japan or even Taiwan but Chinese going for a Heavy Stealthy strike aircraft suggests the threat level India might face from this aircraft in future only goes to higher level.

    Design Characters: J-20’s bubble canopy and frontal air intake section resembles American F-22, but resembles disappear when you spot canards and S-Shaped DSI optimized air intake, Chinese experience on working of DSI intake for JF-17 and J-10B seems to have come handy for J-20 design .Aircraft seems to be powered by Russian Al-31F Variant or Chinese WS-15 engine which still needs to be clarified.

    Possible Weakness: First flight of J-20 also reviled that aircraft did not incorporated any internal weapons bay, which aviation expert suggests that J-20 which flew was just a Technology Demonstrator aircraft and Chinese are still at least five years away from fielding a true 5th Generation fighter aircraft, another possible weakness has been with Chinese is they have struggled to operationalize their turbofan engines (Ws-10 for J-10 and Ws-13 for JF-17 are still not operational) will Ws-15 be ready to power J-20 ? Or they will have Al-31 variants? .

    Impact on AMCA? : IAF wants AMCA to be a Multi-role aircraft which can switch between role of fighter aircraft and a ground attack aircraft, ADA and DRDO had suggested AMCA to be a Strike aircraft in medium weight category (20-25 tonne) but which was turned down by IAF , will Arrival of J-20 in the picture change the scenario now ? No says our Indian Aviation Defence experts Rakesh Sharma, he also adds that IAF has done a right decision to stick with fully Stealthy Multi-role aircraft rather than a Semi-stealthy Strike aircraft, he told that if AMCA had turned up has a Strike aircraft it could never had made much difference in contrast to china since due to its limited range it could only have strike options in smaller cities rather than Chinese capital Beijing. Arrival of J-20 will not have much impact on design aspect of the AMCA since ADA has been tasked with a very strict requirement lay downed by IAF’s ASR (Air Staff Requirements). But since MOD will carry out a study on Chinese J-20 soon ,IAF will also be briefed on it and if IAF feels AMCA requires any changes , ADA and DRDO will be notified but it seems that J-20’s arrival will have no impact on AMCA project .

    http://idrw.org/?p=2400
     
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  3. Crusader53

    Crusader53 Regular Member

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    Well, we know so very little at this stage??? My guess for the J-20 to be any threat to the PAK-FA/FGFA. It must have a lower RCS and equal to Russia in AESA Radars, Avionics, and Weapons. Which, is a tall order indeed.........


    The odds are the it would be ranked the lowest in capability of all the 5th Generation Fighters. Yet, it maybe close enough combined with greater number to be a serious threat nonetheless????


    Time will tell........


    Ranking of 5th Generation Fighters....



    F-22
    F-35
    PAK-FA/FGFA
    J-20
     
  4. Minghegy

    Minghegy Regular Member

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    Don't forget Chinese KKV has shoot satellite and missile, only U.S. can do it before that.
    And China successfully tested anti ship ballistic missile, no the second country did it.
     
  5. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    How does this affect J20 ? J20 is a different project/weapon and it all depend on how good subsystems like Radar, weapons ,AVionics and stealth are . unless those are proven it will always be at the bottom.
     
  6. nrj

    nrj Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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  7. Minghegy

    Minghegy Regular Member

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    China can make the most advanced missiles, but can't make Radar, weapons ,AVionics and stealth for J20? You just don't have a chance to see them, many subsystems of J20 have been tested on J10b and J11b.
    The only problem is engines, it needs time to get enough accumulations, but glad to see they are improving rapidly, and GE will share engine tech with China.
     
  8. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    then tell me why Radars for J10 are being Imported? Also why Pakistan was looking to upgrade JF17 system in very first year?
     
  9. Minghegy

    Minghegy Regular Member

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    Radars from Phazotron was a backup/candidate choice for J10's development, now no import at all.
    Su-27sk has such cockpit, does it mean Russian Avionics still in 1970s level? At least, JF-17 is much better than LCA.
    [​IMG]
     
  10. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    well,Radars of J10 has never been imported

    PLA never allows its in-service equipment ,including radar,to be exported even to Pakistan.

    What any foreign country receive from CHina are all downgraded arms.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2011
    Tshering22 likes this.
  11. the ranking is going to be fgfa-pak-fa-f-22-j-20-f-35.the pak-fa prototype 1 is more like a tech-demostrator and the fully stealthy(with rear aspect stealth) pre-production prototype is going to be unveiled in 2013.
     
  12. chex3009

    chex3009 Regular Member

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    Prove it, else stop ranting about Junk Fighter.
     
  13. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Naa. JF-17 is heavier than LCA, carries lesser payload and has almost similar range even when LCA has a more powerful engine.

    The LCA already has a good radar equipped and its EW system is good while JF's upgrade program is much more behind than LCA. Fact is the stuff that LCA already has JF will get them only in 2012.

    Only aerodynamics are questionable. Even with what is available through open source everything suggests the LCA is still better than the JF-17. In other words, your aircraft is sure to suck more than LCA.
     
  14. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    JF17 is just a commercial project of Chengdu aircraft company and PLA refuses to invest one penny on it.

    the primary object of JF17 is not "superbest performance",but " superbest costperformance".

    So, Chinese can not apply their best tech to it,but apply most costperformance tech to it.


    However, with the rapid development of CHinese aircarft industy, the "costperformance tech" appled to JF17 will also be more and more advanced.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2011
  15. Minghegy

    Minghegy Regular Member

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    Hard to prove, let's see two clear points:
    J20 has a one-piece canopy
    J20 uses EODAS, no need a big ball in front of cockpit
    Few country can make them

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2011
  16. chex3009

    chex3009 Regular Member

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    What difference will the bubble canopy make in an aerial engagement? Can you explain???

    Rather, few country can copy them, would be better.
     
  17. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    bubble canopy can provide pilots broader eyesight and is quite helpful to WVR capacity.

    the manufacturing of Bubble canopy need quite advanced machining and material tech....of course it costs much more too.

    So far, I have found that only USA and China has shown the tech of bubble canopy...Even Russia's T50 still uses outdated traditional canopy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2011
  18. Minghegy

    Minghegy Regular Member

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    It needs a lot of words to explain.
    Anyway, copy a 1990s canopy is much better than copy a 1950s canopy :rotfl::rotfl:

    hmmm, what a nice copy!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2011
  19. chex3009

    chex3009 Regular Member

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    I mean you guys are pathetic, we never take pride in copying and it shows....

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  20. Minghegy

    Minghegy Regular Member

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    The difficulty is the frameless canopy, not the machinery.
    I promise your LCA also has a similar canopy machinery to 1950s F4.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2011
  21. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    well, before one successfully in "copying" it, one always has to invest lots of USD and take decades to finish related material and machining tech.

    I once heard that the total fund allocated for R&D of india's FMBT is only 80M USD...what a joke...

    80M USD is even not enough to work out the related material of bubble canopy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2011

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