Chinese FM: PRC Prepared to Settle India Border Dispute

t_co

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Chinese diplomats are incompetent because most of them were chosen to be in the business for their foreign language skills. I would rather to see foreign ministry to be taken over by PLA.

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Thankfully, most Chinese foreign policy is set at the Central Committee level
 

t_co

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1> Arunachal was always been with India, will stay with India. South Tibet in itself is a misnomer as geographically Arunachal is in the south of Himalayas where as Tibet is in the north. Geographically, Arunachal is not a part of the Tibetan plateau.

2> Aksai Chin is a land occupied by military force. PRC can keep the part with the road with some buffer, give up the rest. (Zhou Enlai's offer to Nehru, based on MacMohan line)

And then we can be good neighbors ever after.
The issue is that giving the mountains in Aksai Chin to India means the Indian Army can overlook that road. China won't let that happen.
 

nimo_cn

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It is funny.



Well, no actually, since they understand that no nation since World War 2 has ever voluntarily given up territory it already controls, regardless of the claims of other parties over it. This has been the case even when one nation is strong and the other nation is weak and in disarray - for example, Finland and the Baltic states vs. Russia immediately following the Soviet dissolution.

Hence China knows it is unlikely to gain South Tibet / Arunachal from India unless it does something to alter the status quo without India's consent, which, at the very least, would trigger a formal Indo-Japanese alliance and at the very most could escalate into a sub-nuclear conflict (the existence of a clear Chinese nuclear advantage over India would keep fighting outside of that realm, thankfully.)

This also means that Xinjiang and Tibet are as safe with China as Hebei or Fujian, since no one in China's periphery has the strength advantage or interests at stake to pry them loose. This means China has no need to negotiate their status.



Haha, much of the reason why Chinese diplomacy sucked in the 20th century was because China as a whole was so weak. It is hard to blame a poker player for losing all their chips when they have to repeatedly bet and defend low cards versus their opponent's kings and aces.

Recently, though, I have been disappointed in the performance of China's foreign ministry, especially as it relates to the South China Sea. China would have been much better served if it rewarded Vietnam for snubbing Obama's request to visit the country by putting the oil rig in the Spratlys rather than the Paracels. It would have been a direct response to the Philippines inviting Obama. It would have also immediately forced the US into the position of having to demonstrate commitment to a treaty ally with a limited set of response options, since the US Senate has not ratified UNCLOS and therefore the US Navy has no legal basis to enforce another nation's EEZ claims. And the likeliest responses: verbal castigation, possible limited sanctions on smaller Chinese companies or officials involved in servicing or designing the oil rig - would seem both impotent and ridiculous, as the main players involved (PetroChina, the Chinese banking system) are too big to be reined in via the response set used on Russia. Or, if the US started sanctioning Chinese officials that had assets in the Western banking system, it would immediately staunch the capital outflow from corrupt Chinese officials and partially solve China's corruption problem for it.

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[/QUOTE]

I am not asking CCP to take back South Tibet immediately, I am simply suggesting not shut the door for the future generation.

Whatever CCP wishes to claim itself to be, it's certainly not a qualified guardian of Chinese territory. Its generousity in giving away Chinese land while negotiating for foreign recognition is simply stunning. But that is fine, land for diplomatic recognition, not a good deal but acceptable for a newly established regime.

But settling border dispute with India in Indian terms? For what? What is there to gain?

Today's China is not weak, at least that is what CCP tells me. Why is Chinese diplomats not able to protect Chinese interests?


Wang Yi is a fool to bring up border dispute in India, all he should talk about is business, that is the only thing matters to China.

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bose

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Chinese diplomats are incompetent because most of them were chosen to be in the business for their foreign language skills. I would rather to see foreign ministry to be taken over by PLA.

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Brilliant Idea !! I must admit...
 

amoy

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CCP claims to live up to "Chinese Dream" for rejuvenation of our motherland, but how comes ending up losing more territory?!

In that case CCP shall bow and step down to give way to KMT (ROC) for Reconquista!

 

Ray

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CCP claims to live up to "Chinese Dream" for rejuvenation of our motherland, but how comes ending up losing more territory?!

In that case CCP shall bow and step down to give way to KMT (ROC) for Reconquista!

The answer is that the so called 'Chinese Dream' is an imperialist and hegemonic fudge.

Western China and South China was never Han territory till Sinicisation was forcibly done.

Han area was North of the Hwang Ho and Yangtse Kiang.
 
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arnabmit

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Would have held true if there was no military occupation, and claim established before 15 Aug 1947.

You can't use 2 different principles in one case: either historic reason (McMahon Line) or Geographical principal.

Based on you format, Chinese can also requires South Tibet on the north of McMahon line and at the meantime keeping Aksai Chin since it is a part of Tibetan Plateau geographically.
 

arnabmit

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The issue is that giving the mountains in Aksai Chin to India means the Indian Army can overlook that road. China won't let that happen.
Nope, look at google maps. MacMohan line runs through a valley with mountains on either side.
 

amoy

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Nope, look at google maps. MacMohan line runs through a valley with mountains on either side.
WHAT? MacMohan line for Aksai Chin ? ? Thats new !

By McCartney MacDonald Line Aksai Chin belongs to China mostly.

Ok I got it. Indians dont give a damn to this or that line in fact. They simply claim this and that as theirs by hook or by crook without legitimacy whatsoever.

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arnabmit

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WHAT? MacMohan line for Aksai Chin ? ? Thats new !

By McCartney MacDonald Line Aksai Chin belongs to China mostly.

Ok I got it. Indians dont give a damn to this or that line in fact. They simply claim this and that as theirs by hook or by crook without legitimacy whatsoever.

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Yes, McCartney MacDonald Line, my bad.

But am talking about the offer to Neheru by Zhou Enlai.

I will ignore the last line as Psychological projection

Don't think India would settle for anything less than the white line for final settlement:

 
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roma

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You're such an idiot.
First time I've ever give a like to a CCP poster :rofl:


I think you havent grasped Modi yet He has Invited Tibet PM in exile today he increased few more border posts in Arunachal.
i think Modi is practical about the CCP and is unlikely to give Dalai much coverage ..Modi is interested in the economic development of India - and rightly so - he will have to show substantial economic development for the people to remain for a a second term ! - and that's a game the CCP should love as they play it well

most possibility is this is new version of hindi chini bhai bhai. May be hindi -chini bhai bhai part 2 ? Though their can be implication cause of the positive approach of chinese government and chinese media about narendra modi
hindi-chini bb will cause nausea among Indian folks


Pragmatically, there's simply no enough incentive for either side to resolve the border permanently.

INDIA: With de facto control over S. Tibet and Sikkim, it's therefore unwilling to let go of what it snatched while give-and-take usually underlies negotiations. Modi may be eager to deliver commitments to voters on basics like "electricity" and "toilets". However, supposedly there're alternative investors such as Japanese or Koreans. Frictions with China to a certain degree keeps India sexy as an ideal "counter balance" to China in the eyes of the West.

CHINA: Excessive capital can always find outlets for investment in such as neighboring pro-business Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Nepal with cheap labor in abundance. India is well kept at bay by the string of pearls . For energy security C. Asia and Russia is the Pipeline-stan without hassles of going through choke points like Hormuz or Malacca.



So why the fuss abt "settling the border dispute"??
Excessive nationalism makes fools of us all.
Personally, I have no problem of giving up our claim on south Tibet! But the question is whether India is willing to settle the dispute based on current LOC?
From my experience in this forum, I don't think so.
Don't take this forum opinion as common Indians opinion as you will find ultra nationalist type of Indian here.
The main area that i would like to be discussed is aksai chin.

Aksai Chin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I would be comfortable to settle the area whereby PRC controls land upto and near the sinkiang - Tibet road and the rest returned to pre 1962 times. Since prc want access to west from Tibet. In return I would like india to be given access and control of mount kailash and nearby areas. India needs access to mount kailash like PRC needs access to its west.

The above would be stretching many principles of international relations and legal principles. Is it possible who knows but we have seen what Pakistan did with PRC in Kashmir. Why cannot PRC and india exchange land for permanent solution to that areas.
1> Arunachal was always been with India, will stay with India. South Tibet in itself is a misnomer as geographically Arunachal is in the south of Himalayas where as Tibet is in the north. Geographically, Arunachal is not a part of the Tibetan plateau.

2> Aksai Chin is a land occupied by military force. PRC can keep the part with the road with some buffer, give up the rest. (Zhou Enlai's offer to Nehru, based on MacMohan line)

And then we can be good neighbors ever after.
Folks...China and India need to start trusting each other....a small piece of land is not greater than love between 1.3 billion Chinese and 1.25 billion Indians..
Piece of land becomes irrelevant when their is trust and love in hearts of people....I hope ..some selfish and greedy power does not succeed in dividing and creating rift between these two great ancient civilizations. I wish China and India a lot of goodwill and unbreakable bond of trust and friendship.
When Chinese and Indian people have more and more people to people contact ..they will start liking and understanding each other and then, border disputes will become irrelevant.
The issue is that giving the mountains in Aksai Chin to India means the Indian Army can overlook that road. China won't let that happen.
The answer is that the so called 'Chinese Dream' is an imperialist and hegemonic fudge.

Western China and South China was never Han territory till Sinicisation was forcibly done.

Han area was North of the Hwang Ho and Yangtse Kiang.

Yes, McCartney MacDonald Line, my bad.

But am talking about the offer to Neheru by Zhou Enlai.

I will ignore the last line as Psychological projection

Don't think India would settle for anything less than the white line for final settlement:


Folks - CCP is bringing this up mainly becaisue they have a whole plethora of border problems in the SCS area
and the USA has recently drawn a line in the sand and communicated that fact during the meeting in the
Shangrila hotel between CCP and USA representatives. The last thing they would need is for India to time
an action when China has problems in the SCS area and such Indian action would receive world support.

China wants India to concentrate on economic development and not on strategic issues and so the Modi
government with its (apt and necessary ) focus on the economic development of the nation is
a godsend for them

My take is that as in the past - there is going to be a lot of talk but on the ground - ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
other than some perhaps small cosmetic changes will ever take place
( Salman Khurshed's pimples might be removed ? )

The best formula would be to go according to Zhou Enlai's offer to Nehru ( which our great leader
should have accepted way back and saved thousands of lives - on BOTH sides )

It would be a win win solution for both sides

.
why ? - it will allow CCP to save face which is even more important for them - they can say
"we told you" to the whole world - and further add that "the skirmish was totally India's fault"
and look great in the eyes of history - as the leaders of the Chinese nation which has historically
been always right and proper in its dealings with the other nations -
the most mature nation on the face of the earth !

It is also a solution from China and so it is not following any dictate from a foreigner

For India - it is nothing great - it would be merely "something better than nothing"

But will it happen - that is the proof of the pudding
I say NO - nothing will happen
- China will propose some measures that India will find difficult to accept and so the blame game will continue with NO change on the ground

It is a stalling tactic in China's favour to keep calm on the western front
while they take the next few decades to solve the SCS region - which
is of paramount importance to them because of the mineral resources therein .


If to my surprise China does implement the Zhou Enlai solution - India should respond
appropriately and positively - not Bhai-b but appropriately positively !

It's now up to China.
 
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roma

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i think Modi is practical about the CCP and is unlikely to give Dalai much coverage ..Modi is interested in the economic development of India - and rightly so - he will have to show substantial economic development for the people to remain for a a second term ! - and that's a game the CCP should love as they play it well
.
hmmmm.... interesting ....consciousness told me to make the following improvements:-
i think Prime Minister Modi is practical about the CCP and is unlikely to give H.E. The Dalai Lama much coverage ..PM is interested in the economic development of India -....... etc etc
humble apologies in advance - to; ethnic Indian (of which i am ) and Tibetan Members
 

prohumanity

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It's a plot of western warmongers to create a rift between two great ancient civilizations..India and China... so that they can continue their hegemony for another 100 years. Why they are so afraid of India and China being friends...because that will end the hegemony and bullying of G-7..the old boys county club. China is not imperialist but western propaganda machine tries to create this false impression that China wants to control the world.... The real truth is that G-7 wants to control the world and using "projection" to malign China. I was born in India and want the best for my native people...Please do not be manipulated by western agents and develop peaceful, harmonious ties with China . They want you to be enemies so they can divide and conquer. They spy on others ..tape their phones...read e mails...they can fall to the lowest level to keep control. World needs to understand the evil designs of "white boys" who think others are dumb and unintelligent.
For them, its all about maximizing profits...they can create wars...create civil wars in other countries....let people die as long as their corporations make more and more profits. I am pro humanity...I understand this evil game they play..they have enslaved American people ...silenced their voice by threatening them and making them fearful due to spying on their phones. emails, online activities. etc. I am pro-people...these mega corporations are very evil and anti people....I wish Chinese and Indian people a lot of wisdom and ability to see through this dirty western game.
 

prohumanity

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@prohumanity
Sir please do not preach sitting in USA (your status says so).
Have some nationalism towards your country.


Sitting in US gives me a better and more objective assessment of the World affairs and how the western minds operate. I have lots of time and resources to research and know the truth. The true nationalist is one who sees truth as it is and warns about pitfalls. I want Bharat ..not to be manipulated and used by any other nation...I wish Bharat to have peaceful and harmonious relations with its neighbors. I want "divide and conquer" policy of West to fail.
 
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dvdiyen

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Sitting in US gives me a better and more objective assessment of the World affairs and how the western minds operate. I have lots of time and resources to research and know the truth. The true nationalist is one who sees truth as it is and warns about pitfalls. I want Bharat ..not to be manipulated and used by any other nation...I wish Bharat to have peaceful and harmonious relations with its neighbors. I want "divide and conquer" policy of West to fail.
Sorry to say this but your research conclusion says that monkey is sitting on our head and he has every right. Being peaceful is more important rather than throwing the monkey out hence sit and watch.

Please do not divert with divide and rule policy. Yes I agree there are some issues in which the West get involved. But your research findings are not in the interest of the country. Peace is fine but at what cost is also important.
Look China is a assertive and arrogant country full of backstabbers there has been many accounts this peace talk will never help. They will never learn until taught a lesson or two. (I am neither supporting the West idea)
 

prohumanity

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I love India as much as you do. I totally support a very very very powerful Indian Military. Nehru didnot have a strong military..he was a starry eyed idealist without any sense of reality. Also, The Chinese leadership at that time was aggressive, militant communist. A lot of water has flown through Mother Ganga since 1962. Today's ,China understands that a militarily powerful India can fight back very hard if attacked. Times have changed. Chinese leadership is thinking long term benefits of trade with India as conflict is bad for both nations. (Read Chinese media..CCTV, Global Times, Xinhua,Peoples daily) There is hardly any negative, derogatory article in Chinese media about India. On the other hand, The Economist, The guardian, BBC, CNN ...don't get tired of India bashing...showing cows roaming in streets, slums, Exaggerating every rape case in India (as if rapes don't happen in London or New York)
India does not need to teach lesson to anyone...just have to show its military strength and make them realize that India can not be intimidated by any nation. In short, peace through strength..as BJP manifesto said.
 

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