Chinese firm wins Turkey's missile defense system tender

[W.G.Ewald]

Remember this?

Breaking: Patriot Missiles Seized, Sold To China by Israel (Updates) | Veterans Today

 

[W.G.Ewald]

@shiphone

How many batteries were ordered? 4? 6?

Turkey could adopt Chinese air defense missile system HQ-9 FD-2000 for T-Loramids program 2606133---Army Recognition

The most basic formation of a HQ-9 batteries consisted of one Type 305B search radar, one tracking radar, one 200kW Diesel generator truck, and eight Transporter erector launchers (TELs) each with 8 missiles, totaling 32 rounds ready to fire. The HQ-9 is a two-stage missile.

 

[badguy2000]

well, it is just a start,in the coming days, CHina-made weapons will defeat its russian and west rivals ,just as CHina-made civilian goods do,


the key word is "cost performance.

 

[sayareakd]

well, it is just a start,in the coming days, CHina-made weapons will defeat its russian and west rivals ,just as CHina-made civilian goods do,


the key word is "cost performance.

that is why you guys purchased S300 system for China ?

 

[CCTV]

that is why you guys purchased S300 system for China ?

Our missile is not perfect, so we need to learn things from Russia.

 

[CCTV]

that is why you guys purchased S300 system for China ?

We bought things for learn , but India bought things since it can not produce.

So, me can sell missile now, but india still import rifle and bullets. .

 

[badguy2000]

that is why you guys purchased S300 system for China ?

well,
1.s300 was purchased long ago,
2. some sub system of s300 or S400 deserve to study...

 

[Ray]

We bought things for learn , but India bought things since it can not produce.

So, me can sell missile now, but india still import rifle and bullets. .

We also import boots!

And, believe it or not, foreign brands of shoes are outsourced by them to Agra!

Now add that to the list.

 

[shiphone]

Part3

as the above brief introduction claimed ,FD2000 itself could be a highly integral AD system and modular one...since Turkey has limited National territory area. the two level(brigade level and battalion level) ,various long range--all alitude surveillance radar and commanding system might be able to cover the whole nation, which means with importing FD2000 AD system ,Turkey could set up an EW ,Surveillance, air defence system covering the whole country lands all provided by China ,relatively independent of current Turkish EW and AD system ...it wouldn't cost too much, full TOT is also available ,... so called integration might not be that severe except the IFF problem...
=======================
a brief induction to some C4I modul of HQ9 system(certainly FD2000 might not have same modul but silmilar replacement could be provided)

1. Battalion level searching radars

LLQ305B radar mentioned in W.G.Eland's post---this is the varient in PLA service. the Export one should be YLC-2V
this is the standard battalion level Target Acquisition radar...and it could get info frome the brigade level Eearly Warning radar via the commanding posts.

YLC-2V and LLQ305B High Guard 3D Long Range Surveillance Radar ------YLC-XX is the serial code for Export varient

------------------------------

LLQ305A Self Propelled 3D Acquisition Radar ---the same as Patroit PAC-2 ,and S300 PMU1/2, current HQ-9 has 'some'(or limited) ability against TBM, and this quite modern advanced S-band AESA radar would play the key role against such threats...normally this 305A radar is not the standard modul of a HQ9 battalion. HQ9's main target is the Aircarfts and Cruise Missiles. only under the TBM threats senario, an extra 305A modul would be deployed as enhancement.

BTW. 305A might remind us the Thales Ground Master series. but so far ,no export varient could be found and never displayed on defence Expo....so this might not be for sale...

 

[sayareakd]

We bought things for learn , but India bought things since it can not produce.

So, me can sell missile now, but india still import rifle and bullets. .

You make copies, we make original. Have you ever heard of PAD and AAD?

 

[amoy]

Once in a DFI poll I voted for Istanbul for 2020 Summer Olympics


An Analysis of Turkish Geopolitics | TR Defence

The reality is that Turkey is now a regional power trying to find its balance. It is in a region where Muslim governments are mixed with secular states, predominantly Christian nations and a Jewish state. When you take the 360-degree view that the AKP likes to talk about, it is an extraordinary and contradictory mixture of states. Turkey is a country that maintains relations with Iran, Israel and Egypt, a dizzying portfolio.It is not a surprise that the Turks are not doing well at this. After an interregnum of nearly a century, Turkey is new to being a regional power, and everyone in the region is trying to draw Turkey into something for their own benefit. Syria wants Turkish mediation with Israel and in Lebanon. Azerbaijan wants Turkish support against Armenia in Nagorno-Karabakh. Israel and Saudi Arabia want Turkish support against Iran. Iran wants Turkey's support against the United States.

Kosovo wants its support against Serbia. It is a rogue's gallery of supplicants, all wanting something from Turkey and all condemning Turkey when they don't get it. Not least of these is the United States, which wants Turkey to play the role it used to play, as a subordinate American ally.

Turkey's strategy is to be friends with everyone, its "zero conflict with neighbors" policy, as the Turks call it. It is an explicit policy not to have enemies. The problem is that it is impossible to be friends with all of these countries. Their interests are incompatible, and in the end, the only likely outcome is that all will find Turkey hostile and it will face distrust throughout the region. Turkey was genuinely surprised when the United States, busy finally getting sanctions into place against Iran, did not welcome Turkey's and Brazil's initiative with Iran. But unlike Brazil, Turkey lives in a tough neighborhood and being friendly with everyone is not an option.

This policy derives, I think, from a fear of appearing, like the Ottoman Empire, so distrusted by secularists. The Ottoman Empire was both warlike and cunning. It was the heir to the Byzantine tradition and it was worthy of it. Ataturk simplified Turkish foreign policy radically, drawing it inward. Turkey's new power makes that impossible, but it is important, at least at this point in history, for Turkey not to appear too ambitious or too clever internationally. The term neo-Ottoman keeps coming up, but is not greeted happily by many people. Trying to be friendly with everyone is not going to work, but for the Turks, it is a better strategy now than being prematurely Byzantine. Contrary to others, I see Turkish foreign policy as simple and straightforward: What they say and what they intend to do are the same. The problem with that foreign policy is that it won't work in the long run. I suspect the Turkish government knows that, but it is buying time for political reasons.

It is buying time for administrative reasons as well. The United States entered World War II without an intelligence service, with a diplomatic corps vastly insufficient for its postwar needs and without a competent strategic-planning system. Turkey is ahead of the United States of 1940, but it does not have the administrative structure or the trained and experienced personnel to handle the complexities it is encountering. The Turkish foreign minister wakes up in the morning to Washington's latest demand, German pronouncements on Turkish EU membership, Israeli deals with the Greeks, Iranian probes, Russian views on energy and so on. It is a large set of issues for a nation that until recently had a relatively small foreign-policy footprint.

China, Turkey held joint air exercise: Pentagon | TR Defence

The air forces of China and Turkey have carried out a joint exercise, the US Defense Department said on Friday, in what appeared to be the first such drill involving Beijing and a NATO member country.

Turkey assured the US it would take the "utmost care" to protect sensitive US and NATO technologies, said US army Lieutenant Colonel Tamara Parker, a department spokeswoman. She said Turkey's government was committed to the NATO alliance and the continuation of strong ties to the US.

Meantime Turkey is also the top patron for Uyghur "dissidents" with a large Uyghur community. Are Uyghurs Running A Terrorist Network In Turkey And China? | Stirring Trouble Internationally - Humorous Comments and Analysis Of News And Current Affairs

Things are a bit complicated.

 

[shiphone]

Part 4

Battalion level searching radars(continued)

aircraft's low altitude penetration is common on the battle field, another hard target is the cruise missiles------ low attitude,low RCS small target.
so HQ-9 sys also could get a Low Altitude Acquisition Radar for enhancement. but this is not the standard HQ9 battalion modul either.

LLQ120 Self Propelled Low Altitude Acquisition Radar

in this catalogue , we could find some replacements from different R&D teams for the exporting FD2000 .

1.JY11
2.JY11B
3.JY29/LSS-1

-------------------------

2. Battalion level Commanding Post ---we call it 'command and control vehicle'

 

[Neil]

US-sanctioned Chinese firm wins Turkey missile defense system tender


NATO member Turkey has chosen a Chinese defense firm that has been sanctioned by Washington to co-produce a $4 billion long-range air and missile defense system, rejecting rival bids from Russian, United States, French and Italian firms.

With the decision, announced today following a meeting of the Undersecretariat for Defense Industries' executive council, which is headed by Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdo?an, Ankara approved the lowest offer despite worries about the Chinese system's ultimate compatibility with NATO-owned early warning assets.

CPMIEC (China Precision Machinery Export-Import Corp.) submitted an offer for its HQ-9 that included co-production solutions – which was requested by Turkish authorities – at a reported $3 billion.
The other bidders were the U.S. partnership of Raytheon and Lockheed Martin, offering the Patriot air defense system; Russia's Rosoboronexport, marketing the S-300; and the Italian-French consortium Eurosam, maker of the SAMP/T Aster 30.

In February, the United States announced sanctions on CPMIEC for violations of the Iran, North Korea and Syria Nonproliferation Act.

It did not say precisely what CPMIEC had done, but Washington has penalised the company before. In 2003, Washington said it was extending sanctions on the firm for arms sales to Iran. It was unclear when those measures were first imposed.

Officials at state-run CPMIEC, the marketing arm of China's missile manufacturing industry, could not immediately be reached for comment.

Turkey, which has the second-largest deployable military force in the NATO alliance, has no long-range missile defense system of its own, but NATO has deployed the U.S.-built Patriot air and missile defense system there since 2012.

The winning Chinese FD-2000 system beat the Patriot, the Russian S-400 and the French-Italian Eurosam Samp-T.

Raytheon Co, which builds the Patriot missile system, said it had been informed about the Turkish decision and hoped to get a briefing soon. It said there were 200 Patriot units deployed in 12 countries, including Turkey.

"NATO has long supported the system, deploying Patriots in five aligned countries and, in 2012, providing a requested Patriot deployment to Turkey. Given this strong performance, we hope to have an opportunity to debrief and learn more about this decision," Raytheon spokesman Mike Doble said.

Made in China

CPMIEC does not make missiles itself. The two main manufacturers are China Aerospace Science and Technology Corp (CASC) and China Aerospace Science and Industry Corp (CASIC). CASC makes intercontinental ballistic missiles, while CASIC focuses on short- and intermediate-range rockets.

After decades of steep military spending increases and cash injections into local contractors, experts say some Chinese-made equipment is now comparable to Russian or Western weaponry.

China last year became the world's fifth-biggest arms supplier with 5 percent of the market, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. Pakistan was its biggest buyer.

US-sanctioned Chinese firm wins Turkey missile defense system tender | idrw.org

 

[Neil]

why is NATO creating so much fuss over this sale...?? Turkey wont be the first NATO member to buy ADS from non western state... Greece has S-300 ...

 

[jmj_overlord]

US sanctioned means what ?

 

[cw2005]

One thing is for sure. If China exports this system with TOT, there must be something new and better in the making.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

US sanctioned means what ?

sanc·tion

verb
past tense: sanctioned;"ƒpast participle: sanctioned

1.
give official permission or approval for (an action).
"only two treatments have been sanctioned by the Food and Drug Administration"
synonyms: authorize, permit, allow, warrant, accredit, license, endorse, approve, accept, back, support; More
informalOK
"the rally was sanctioned by the government"
antonyms: prohibit
2.
impose a sanction or penalty on.
synonyms: punish, discipline someone for More
"the penalties available to sanction crime"

In this case the second meaning.

 

[Neil]

One thing is for sure. If China exports this system with TOT, there must be something new and better in the making.

i think @ shiphone already pointed out that china isnt exporting the original version of the system rather a tone down version of it... i guess then china doesnt really need a new system altogether....

OT...:: is china procuring S400 system...??

 

[jmj_overlord]

turkey is allied with US, right ? so won't ordering weapon systems from a chinese firms be viewed with suspicion by US even if sanctions are relaxed ?

 

[W.G.Ewald]

We also import boots!

And, believe it or not, foreign brands of shoes are outsourced by them to Agra!

Now add that to the list.

These are some awesome boots:

Standard

I'll buy a pair when I can afford them.