Chinese Expansionism in Russia with a Twist - Russia Annoyed!

[amoy]

The Russians do not like every person that isn't white,or look european,and people are talking about importing chinese indians or whatever.
The govt will probably accept that,but what about the population ?

Gabriel racist sentiments aside, it's already a ground reality that there're many immigrants mainly Central Asians, needless to mention Chinese or what.

There are an estimated 4 million illegal immigrants from the ex-Soviet states in Russia.[37] In 2012, the Russian Federal Security Service's Border Service stated there had been an increase in illegal migration from the Middle East and Southeast Asia.[38] Under legal changes made in 2012, illegal immigrants who are caught will be banned from reentering the country for 10 years.

As I mentioned many Russians (white) have emigrated! Like the Jewish Autonomous Oblast (District) – popularly known as Birobidzhan in the far east probably only <<10% are Jews U can imagine where most of Jews have gone .

 

[Ray]

If Russian or Europeans are wary of non European citizens, that is but natural.

They cannot decipher Orientals and the Oriental have a different mindset than them.

Orientals are not as impulsive or brash as the Occidentals.

 

[Srinivas_K]

Far east always plays in the minds of Russian establishment. Infact it is China that has entered into the carefully laid trap all around it.

 

[amoy]

Far east always plays in the minds of Russian establishment. Infact it is China that has entered into the carefully laid trap all around it.

It's Indians who're obsessed with Chinese. As posted Central Asians who've made inroads to Russia outnumber all others put together!

 

[sorcerer]

Any kind of Chinese expansion into the region will eventually bring about a question: What is Beijing's claim there? Most of the border region — an area roughly the size of Iran — used to be Chinese. Russia took the territory in 1858 and 1860 with the Treaties of Aigun and Peking, respectively. Of all of the unequal treaties forced upon the Qing dynasty by outside powers in the 19th century, these are the only two China has not managed to overcome. China and Russia signed a border agreement in 1999, but the Beijing government has never formally accepted the Aigun and Peking treaties.

Valuable Ports and Resources

The Russian Far East also holds resources that are valuable to an ever-growing China. The region is rich in natural resources such as oil, gas and timber. It is easier to send these goods to Asia instead of shipping them 3,000 miles to Moscow. The size of the Russian work force is shrinking as the country grows older. China's young — and growing — population is more than able to fill the gap and exploit these resources.

But there is no reason to believe that, over time, Moscow will simply let the region slip from its grasp. The territory at stake includes all of Russia's access to the Pacific Ocean. Vladivostok is Russia's only warm-water Pacific port. Nikolayevsk, at the mouth of the Amur River, processes most of Siberia's remaining exports. Both are well within former Chinese territory.

The local Russian population is increasingly nervous. The governor of Primoskiy Kray, Yevgenii Nazdratenko, on June 1 called for relocating 5 million Russians from European Russia to the Far East.

Police in Russian cities are responding with aggressive ethnic profiling. Law enforcement personnel check the documentation of foreigners, and they actively target ethnic Asians. The policy results from a widespread feeling — as far away as St. Petersburg — that China is the source of undesirable immigration.

Why doesnt the Beijing Govt accept the border agreement?
Becuase
1) The Russian Far East also holds resources that are valuable to an ever-growing China.
2) Beijing has other insterests int he region vis a vis expansionsim the way they do in East Turkestan and their other border peripheries.
3) Stratigic -The territory at stake includes all of Russia's access to the Pacific Ocean.

Despite claims on numbers and census and consensus..we can see the Chinese Game at large here who has renewed friendship with Russia..

 

[rock127]

I don't think Russia is looking for a repeat of French situation.
Multiculturalism usually doesn't work, at lest not in europe.
Take a look at the rise of far-right in Europe to see why.
If immigrating populations do not adopt one of the native cultures it will cause friction, as is being demonstrated in Europe.

Multiculturalism can work except when the culture is from the "Religion of Peace" who not only refuse to assimilate but then create ghettos with their rules and force govt to bend rules.

It’s ‘not immigration, it’s invasion’: Bobby Jindal’s strong warning about Muslim ‘no-go zones’ in US - BizPac Review

 

[roma]

I don't think Russia is looking for a repeat of French situation.
Multiculturalism usually doesn't work, at lest not in europe.
Take a look at the rise of far-right in Europe to see why.
If immigrating populations do not adopt one of the native cultures it will cause friction, as is being demonstrated in Europe.

nice point
what is happening in europe is by n mean multiculturalism
it is bi-cultural ism and a nation within a nation
what is happening is ONE group being allowed to have become so
huge that they are in a position to demand a separate legal system and gradually,
a separate nation and a partition of the former nation

yes folks the international community failed to look at the india pak situation of 1947,
thought it was a "far away" thing and now it has become their in-house
grave problem .

the answer for russia today, is in the management of the intake of immigrants
and it's continued monitorisng of the numbers and social implications

you see by comparing france's situation with russia's
in a way youre comparing apples with , yes oran..... ( you know it )

the french project to take in immigrants began soon after the algerian independence
in the early 1960's and obviously they had no prior model to look to , as immigration
then was a whole new experience , for everyone ..... so they made two colossal
mistakes ( as did britain , a short while later ) which is they did not control the
intake ( the rules were very loose ) and they did not monitor the situation ... a third factor
is that they took in too many from one group ( north african and they were of a certain
philosophy which we are now asking if that is peaceful or not )

what i had suggested for russia is in fact based on the advantage of all these french, german and british
experiences behind us ...... that is to say get a mix ed group so that no one group can get too powerful
and avoid having a nation within a nation ....short of keeping the intake small which an turn out to be
cross-purpose because you need the numbers to make it work, the thing to do is to have various groups
nationalities and religions and each one is kept small in absolute numbers so that they know whose
country it really is, which is the dominant culture and they feel grateful to them rather than to say
out culture ( immigrant ) culture must prevail and we want our legal system instead of russian legal system

anther factor which i ca now add which will help russia is to ensure that the tenure of stay in the country
be limited to say 15 years after which the immigrant must leave the country and without citizenship
or permanent right being automatic but they can apply and the state, bearing in mind the sensitivities
can then decide on a case by case basis - that way they wont get too many of one group and can
manage their home situation better

i hope the russian home affairs is listening in

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Currently Russia is in no position to raise eye on anyone because of the mess it created in Ukraine.
Its time to play hard ball with the Russians especially after the way they treated us during Vikramadatya saga

 

[tramp]

And it would be better in the long run for Russia to avoid allowing of migration from nations contiguous with its borders.

 

[amoy]

Why doesnt the Beijing Govt accept the border agreement?
Becuase
1) The Russian Far East also holds resources that are valuable to an ever-growing China.
2) Beijing has other insterests int he region vis a vis expansionsim the way they do in East Turkestan and their other border peripheries.
3) Stratigic -The territory at stake includes all of Russia's access to the Pacific Ocean.

Despite claims on numbers and census and consensus..we can see the Chinese Game at large here who has renewed friendship with Russia..

Yours is outdated again. China has settled all borders with former soviet states.

The divide of Bolshoy Ussuriysky Island gave the last touch to Russo China border deal in 2004.

Do yr homework before 1.2.3. Blah

War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength. ~from my MiPad using tapatalk

 

[roma]

The Russians do not like every person that isn't white,or look european,and people are talking about importing chinese indians or whatever.
The govt will probably accept that,but what about the population ?

i have have seen relatively poor indians and the way they were treated by russian and i have seen rich
indians and the very different way they were treated by the same russians

also i have seen russian prejudice agaisnt an indian community they didnt know
vs russian respect for an indian community they later got to know

so there are some factors to be considered - if you are economically well -off
if you are contributing to them, if you are well presented and if they get to know
that you are a law-abiding community - that makes all the difference imho.

 

[roma]

It's Indians who're obsessed with Chinese. As posted Central Asians who've made inroads to Russia outnumber all others put together!

nice try with the red herring !

the huge huge difference is that those particular central Asians who work in russia
are mostly labor, do not have rich home economies to support them

most chines in russia are relatively richer business people with a gigantic booming
economy of ccp-land to back them and which actually claims chunks of russian far east territory

many chines immigrant private enterprises have clandestine state -backing in many forms ...which is huge
( yes we do know your dirty little tricks )
no such state-backing for the central asians .

now anyone who was distracted by your red herring can get a bit more of the truth !

CC:

Far east always plays in the minds of Russian establishment. Infact it is China that has entered into the carefully laid trap all around it.

(for info only )

 

[Sameet Pattnaik]

your almighty government was formed in 1949 after bitter civil war ! anti imperialism was your stance ! your government shouldnt even demand for any Indian administrated land which in control of it for century ! I say that the control of akshai chin is still illegal as it is occupied by war by deception !

 

[sorcerer]

Yours is outdated again. China has settled all borders with former soviet states.

The divide of Bolshoy Ussuriysky Island gave the last touch to Russo China border deal in 2004.

Do yr homework before 1.2.3. Blah

War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength . ~from my MiPad using tapatalk

Your War is peace, Your freedom is slavery , Your ignorance is epic.

China and Russia signed a border agreement in 1999, but the Beijing government has never formally accepted the Aigun and Peking treaties.
There is difference between signing and honouring the deal.. May be that is what the author pointed out.

 

[jouni]

Russians in far east must feel great, they got poorer neighbors than they are. Here it is the opposite Russian average salary is 1/8th of a Finnish one.

 

[Ray]

Major migration trends in contemporary Russia to Russia's Far East have deep historical roots. Population movement during the time of the Tsars (1547-1917) and Soviet (1917-1991) period provided the preconditions for the post-Soviet migration, including both internal and international migration processes. The majority of contemporary migration flows involve the movement of people considered to belong to a particular ethnic group (e.g. Russians, Germans, Finns) in response to settlement policies, shifting borders and, more recently, repatriation policies.

That apart, Russia was probably the first country in the world to establish a specialized State Migration Management Department (in 1763). The main goal of this institution was to promote migration from Western Europe to Russia. As a result of this policy thousands of immigrants – most of whom were skilled (e.g., scientists, professors, military men, engineers, architects and businessmen) – settled in Russia. The most significant share of migrants was ethnic Germans. According to historical data, there were about 1.8 million Germans in the Russian Empire by the end of 19th century.

In the Soviet period there were two contradictory factors affecting migration: restriction of the freedom of movement provided by the residence permit system (propiska) on the one hand, and voluntary and involuntary large-scale population movements on the other.10 The idea of total state control of migration by means of the propiska system had its foundation in many respects in the experience of failure by the authorities to manage the spontaneous and uncontrolled movements of the population during the 1917 Revolution and the 1917-1923 Civil War. The voluntary but strictly state-regulated migration in the Soviet time was driven by industrialization.

A special labour recruitment system was established during the first five-year-plans (piatiletkas) with the aim of industrial development in different regions of country. As a result of this policy, about 28.7 million people were re-settled across the USSR during the 1930s.12 Moreover, the special mechanism – so-called "northern wage increments" (severnaya nadbavka) – designed to attract the population to move to Northern Russia, Siberia and the Russian Far East was introduced in 1933. In the late Soviet period the system of "distribution of graduates" (raspredelenie) was commonly used in the USSR. Under this policy, university graduates were assigned to work in other parts of the country for 3 or 4 years. Some people came back after the end of the obligatory working period, but many people stayed in their assigned destinations. Graduates could also be required to move to other Soviet republics; a graduate from a Russian university could have been redistributed to work in Ukraine or Estonia, for example. In the late Soviet time, migration was mainly voluntary but strictly controlled by the authorities. In the 1980s, about 15 million citizens changed their place of residence within the USSR each year.

Compulsory resettlement was a part of Soviet totalitarian policy, an instrument of political repression. The first victims of compulsory resettlement were wealthy farmers (kulaks), who were deported to underdeveloped northern areas. n the years from 1940 to 1959 the Soviet authorities used compulsory resettlement as a way to punish people who were officially declared "suspect elements". Many people from the Baltic States, West Ukraine and Moldova were the victims of such punishment. In that time not only individuals, but also entire ethnic groups were considered "suspect" such as Germans (after the beginning the war with Germany in 1941), Crimean Tatars, Chechens, or Ingushs. As a result of that policy, many people had to live very far from their places of birth, such as in Siberia or Central Asia.

(from my archives)

One Europeanisation of the Russian Far East.

 

[Ray]

Chinese Migration in the Russian Far East

In the 1860s, Chinese migration to the Russian Far East was mainly temporary and seasonal, but the flow of migrants increased steadily over time. (4) The frontier was still open, and the lack of controls or patrolling by the military contributed considerably to the migration of Chinese to Russia and to the setting up of the first migration networks.

The local Russian government, which was still underdeveloped, did not have sufficient resources to control the economic activities and life of the Chinese migrants in this new province. Illicit trade prospered, as did illegal industries exploiting the natural resources in which many Chinese worked: hunting, fishing, mining, and forestry.

In 1910, there were close to 42,535 Chinese workers in the various sectors of emerging industries in the Amur and Primorye regions of the Russian Far East, amounting to 41 percent of the total number of workers. Russian settlers employed Chinese migrants in agriculture in the country and as
servants in town.

American and German transportation companies, along with Chinese employment agencies, were quick to respond to this major demand for labour, setting up a complete system of recruitment and transfer of Chinese to Russia.

The construction of the new section of the TransSiberian railway network between Manchuria and Russia playedan important role in increased movement from China by facilitating the transportation of Chinese workers to the big towns of the Russian Far East and Siberia.

The Chinese workers came mainly from Shandong, Zhili (a metropolitan province under the Empire, which was later abolished), and Manchuria.

Chinese communities began to appear in the big towns in the Russian Far East — while maintaining a very strong sense of identity and building up multiple networks with China (men, diverse goods, and information). Gradually, a Chinese diaspora formed in the Russian Far East, with its own laws and structures of governance, which eluded any control from the local Russian authorities.

Moreover, reference to a "Yellow Peril" was widespread at the time, and the Russian-speaking population in the region maintained a negative attitude towards the Chinese. The situation worsened with the movement of the secret society yihetuan, known as the "Boxers," in 1900, and the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-1905.

However, with the outbreak of the First World War, Russia was forced once again to resort to Chinese workers in order compensate for the shortage of labour caused by the military conscription of large numbers of Russian peasants and workers.

From my archives

some aspects of the Chinese influx in Russia's far East. Mostly, they were coolies.

 

[no smoking]

your almighty government was formed in 1949 after bitter civil war ! anti imperialism was your stance ! your government shouldnt even demand for any Indian administrated land which in control of it for century ! I say that the control of akshai chin is still illegal as it is occupied by war by deception !

This so called "land which in control of India for century" wasn't in India's map until 1950s.
And India government knew nothing about the Chinese road construction on this land for years until they learn it from the Chinese newspaper.
Tell me again, how did India controlled this land?

 

[Sameet Pattnaik]

This so called "land which in control of India for century" wasn't in India's map until 1950s.
And India government knew nothing about the Chinese road construction on this land for years until they learn it from the Chinese newspaper.
Tell me again, how did India controlled this land?

 

[Sameet Pattnaik]

now I feel you are clear !