Chinese CM-400AKG anti-ship missile

LTE-TDD

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because they are cheap but at the same time poor in quality. We have stop buying them, since shopkeepers are unable to guarantee of Chines product after it left the shop.
I do not know what you are talking here. I ask if all chinese weapon are junk as you claimed, why you India need to spend billion and billion dollar to import your 'so-called' advanced weapon'? understand me? Keep relaxing and spending money somewhere (Do not worry China because all their stuff are junk, right).
 

mikhail

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You are desperate and mislead people by posting wrongful information
why are you guys so desperate to compete with us at every level!your CM-400 AKG is nothing but the old YJ-82 anti-ship missile in a new avatar and its speed is not mach-5.5,its only mach 0.9!it attains the maximum mach 5.5 speed only in the terminal phase(even our short range tactical ballistic missile Prahaar also attains speed in excess of mach 5 in the terminal phase as its average speed is mach 2.03) where as the Brahmos basically covers its entire trajectory at a speed of mach 2.8-3.0 and the most important fact is that its a cruise missile!so its a complete b.s. that this missile is a hypersonic one as at present no country is capable of developing a hypersonic cruise missile(btw we are co-developing Brahmos-2 hypersonic version with Russia which will be operational at around 2017-18) not even the U.S.actually Brahmos is in its own class as there is no existing supersonic cruise missile in the present world market.:rolleyes:
Prahaar (missile) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
BrahMos - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
C-802 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Defcon 1

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Damn it, waste three pages for mouth fights and no one but P2P understood how this missile works.
It's not a cruise missile like Brahmos or anything subsonic world widely used, all of them travel meters higher above sea in terminal stage.
It's an air-launched ballistic missile, umm..., with very short range and doesn't go out of atmosphere.
The missile will be launched when the fighter is climbing, so there is an initial speed for its climb.
Once it is launched, the engine will help it climbing as high as and as far as possible and then dash to its target.
Thanks to the g force, the terminal speed might reach 5 mach.
Control system on it will help the adujstment of trajectory in midcourse.
Correct me if I am wrong, but how can you adjust trajectory of a ballistic missile in the midcourse? I don't think that is possible. Another thing, since the missile is being inducted by PAF, its range is probably around 100 km since the new backbone of PAF, JF17 has a radar range of only 130-150 km
 

Yijiuliuer

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Correct me if I am wrong, but how can you adjust trajectory of a ballistic missile in the midcourse? I don't think that is possible. Another thing, since the missile is being inducted by PAF, its range is probably around 100 km since the new backbone of PAF, JF17 has a radar range of only 130-150 km
Correction:

1. it is a fire and forget, it has Beidou positioning system to guide it and other seekers to enhance precision, launching platform only increases its speed and range.
2. JF17 has a radar range more than 150 KM, but actually it does not matter if it has radar or not.
 

Defcon 1

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Correction:

1. it is a fire and forget, it has Beidou positioning system to guide it and other seekers to enhance precision, launching platform only increases its speed and range.
2. JF17 has a radar range more than 150 KM, but actually it does not matter if it has radar or not.
Only cruise missiles use navigational systems similar to GPS. Ballistic missiles always use radar for targetting. If you don't agree, can you please tell what is a difference between a cruise missile and a ballistic missile.

Jf 17 blk 1 has a radar range of 130 km for a fighter sized target whereas blk II has a range of 150 km. Everyone knows it. If you disagree, post a source .
 
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Yijiuliuer

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Only cruise missiles use navigational systems similar to GPS. Ballistic missiles always use radar for targetting. If you don't agree, can you please tell what is a difference between a cruise missile and a ballistic missile.

Jf 17 blk 1 has a radar range of 130 km for a fighter sized target whereas blk II has a range of 150 km. Everyone knows it. If you disagree, post a source .

Eh? you got lost in your own statement didn't you, if as you said, which is not true, Ballistics missiles always use radar for targeting, how is it related to JF17's radar then? do you know the radar range of CM400? As I said before, it is a fire and forget, platform don't guide it. and CM400 is a rocket engine powered missile, it use GPS to target object.

please google KLJ10 and ZDK-03, but that again, does not matter. the missile is NOT guided by platform.
 

s002wjh

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Only cruise missiles use navigational systems similar to GPS. Ballistic missiles always use radar for targetting. If you don't agree, can you please tell what is a difference between a cruise missile and a ballistic missile.
its only a gps, anything big enough to fit a iphone can use GPS. GPS can be integrate into any system.
 

s002wjh

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of course anti-ship ballistic missile has other things to worry about than cruise missile, its much faster, harder to manuver, search and tracking of carrier battle group is another issue.
 

Defcon 1

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Eh? you got lost in your own statement didn't you, if as you said, which is not true, Ballistics missiles always use radar for targeting, how is it related to JF17's radar then? do you know the radar range of CM400? As I said before, it is a fire and forget, platform don't guide it. and CM400 is a rocket engine powered missile, it use GPS to target object.

please google KLJ10 and ZDK-03, but that again, does not matter. the missile is NOT guided by platform.
Yes, ballistic missiles use the radar for targetting, but of the platform, not of their own. Google it yourself.

A ballistic missile is a missile that follows a sub-orbital ballistic flightpath with the objective of delivering one or more warheads to a predetermined target. The missile is only guided during the relatively brief initial powered phase of flight and its course is subsequently governed by the laws of orbital mechanics and ballistics. To date, ballistic missiles have been propelled during powered flight by chemical rocket engines of various types
The above is from wiki page of ballistic missiles.

That is why it is related to radar range of Jf17. Because it cannot be guided on its own. The missile has no radar of its own. I am repeating. Only cruise missiles use GPS because ballistic missiles cannot change their trajectory mid course. Its not a question of whether GPS can be integrated on it or not.

I have googled KLJ 10. Here is something on KLJ7/10 from Jane.
KLJ-7/10 Fire Control Radar (FCR) (China) - Jane's Avionics
 
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s002wjh

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midcourse correction can be done, tailfan(if its SRBM/MRBM)/boaster on the side. this is not the hardpart, the hard part is target acquire during terminal phase. also guidance system only limited by the size of missile tip, if the there is enough room, you can put anything there. but it sill require external guidance for target location during initial-midcourse.
 

Defcon 1

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midcourse correction can be done, tailfan(if its SRBM/MRBM)/boaster on the side. this is not the hardpart, the hard part is target acquire during terminal phase. also guidance system only limited by the size of missile tip, if the there is enough room, you can put anything there. but it sill require external guidance for target location during initial-midcourse.
Such corrections are only possible in US patriot level systems. Not chinese knock off of older missiles.

Please again read the definition of ballistic missiles. It is not a question of whether GPS can be put there or not. These missiles are just very very fast to effectively change their course midflight. That's the reason cruise missiles always have lower speed than ballistic missiles. It is difficult to change course at higher speeds.

But that wasn't not the contending point. The main point was, can this missile hit a target 240 km away if it is launched from a jet whose radar's range is 150 km?
 

s002wjh

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Such corrections are only possible in US patriot level systems. Not chinese knock off of older missiles.

Please again read the definition of ballistic missiles. It is not a question of whether GPS can be put there or not. These missiles are just very very fast to effectively change their course midflight. That's the reason cruise missiles always have lower speed than ballistic missiles. It is difficult to change course at higher speeds.

But that wasn't not the contending point. The main point was, can this missile hit a target 240 km away if it is launched from a jet whose radar's range is 150 km?
china has send man to orbit, midcourse correction is not impossible, afterall both commercial/military rocket are similar. midcourse correction is not a diffcult task. if a hypersonic cruise missile can adjust its course, so can a BM, all you need is GPS guidance, and fins, its simple concept done since invention of rocket.

during mid course, the missile only has speed of mach3-4, its the terminal stage that is more diffcult to guide toward the target. midcourse last anywhere from 10-20mins, enough time for the missile to change few degree and guide the warhead to a general direction. terminal guidance has to be very precise and in real time, which is the diffcult part.

as far as the anti-ship cruise missile that china developed, its unlikely the missile will be fire at its max range, usually fire much closer for better accuracy.
 

Defcon 1

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china has send man to orbit, midcourse correction is not impossible, afterall both commercial/military rocket are similar. midcourse correction is not a diffcult task. if a hypersonic cruise missile can adjust its course, so can a BM, all you need is GPS guidance, and fins, its simple concept done since invention of rocket.

during mid course, the missile only has speed of mach3-4, its the terminal stage that is more diffcult to guide toward the target. midcourse last anywhere from 10-20mins, enough time for the missile to change few degree and guide the warhead to a general direction. terminal guidance has to be very precise and in real time, which is the diffcult part.

as far as the anti-ship cruise missile that china developed, its unlikely the missile will be fire at its max range, usually fire much closer for better accuracy.
Pray tell me, which hypersonic cruise missile are you talking about. There are none in the world as of today. If it was so easy as you say, then mid course correction would be possible in every ballistic missile on the planet, but we don't see that, do we? Also, look at what the other guy said. He claimed that the missile was fire and forget. Even if mid course was possible(which is not), it wouldn't make the missile fire and forget.
 

ice berg

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It depends on what target you want to hit. If you are aiming at a stationary target, it is not required to use mid course correction. However if you want to hit a moving target, in this case a ship or air craft carrier, then you must have mid course correction. Because they are moving targets, by the time your missile left, they
are already moving towards somewhere else.

http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=35171&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=7&cHash=3ac55b5a15
Making an ASBM Work

Chinese schematic diagrams show an ASBM flight trajectory with mid-course and terminal guidance [4]. Second stage control fins would be critical to steering the ASBM through terminal maneuvers to evade countermeasures and home in on a moving target. This makes an ASBM different from most ballistic missiles, which have a fixed trajectory.
 

Defcon 1

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It depends on what target you want to hit. If you are aiming at a stationary target, it is not required to use mid course correction. However if you want to hit a moving target, in this case a ship or air craft carrier, then you must have mid course correction. Because they are moving targets, by the time your missile left, they
are already moving towards somewhere else.

The Jamestown Foundation: Chinese ASBM Development: Knowns and Unknowns
Making an ASBM Work

Chinese schematic diagrams show an ASBM flight trajectory with mid-course and terminal guidance [4]. Second stage control fins would be critical to steering the ASBM through terminal maneuvers to evade countermeasures and home in on a moving target. This makes an ASBM different from most ballistic missiles, which have a fixed trajectory.
Good article. However, it also points out that such an ASBM is a work of future and will mostly probably be in the form of long range, ground launched missiles. The current missile we are talking about is a short range, air launched missile. So, in all probability the current missile does not feature mid course correction. However it will be interesting to see China developing a new class of missiles.
 
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Ray

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Must be a fantastic weapon!
 

ice berg

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设计人员详解CM-400AKG超音速空地导弹性能_新浪视频


During an interview with an Engineer Zhang, who is one of the engineers on the project team that developed the CM-400AKG.

Key Missile stats:
-Range: 100-240km
-Speed: Up to 5.5M
-Diameter: 400mm
-Length: 5.2m
-Weight: 900kg (approx)
-Guidance: Inertia + Terminal, Terminal guidance methods include: Passive Radar, IR or TV guidance.

This is not an air launched ballistic missile because he keeps emphasis that the missile's entire flight is within the atmosphere.

He also listed potensial targets like land based high value fixed targets, like command centers, bridges, air defense radar.

It could be an anti-radiation missile. And a 240km M5.5 anti-radiation missile, isnt that interesting.:p

In an (un)related news., PAF just become the first customer.
CM-400 AKG Supersonic Long Range Anti Ship/Land Attack Missile ~ Pakistan Military Review
 

tony4562

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400AKG is most probably derived from the SY-400 surface-to.surface missile/guided rocket. It is somewhat a hybrid product between ballistic missile and cruise missile. According to its manufacture, the missile is designed to have its entire flight envelope within the atomsphere, we can therefore conclude that it probably has a relatively flat trajectory compared to other ballistic missile. When it is launched from an aircraft, at preferably high attitude, it will climb to a height of 50-60 km, traveling at perhaps 4 mach. Then upon reentry, at distance of perhaps 20-30 km from the target and an attitude of perhaps 15km , it will turn on its terminal radar and adjust its trajectory for the terminal dive, and in the process speeding up to perhaps 5.5 mach. China has invested big time the last 20-30 years in ballistic missile technology, probably this missile incorporates some of the technology developed for the DF-21D anti-carrier ballistic missile.

This for sure will be a very difficult missile to defend against given its high velocity and almost vertical terminal dive. Right now none in india shipbourne air-defence arsenal (SA-N-7, SA-N-12, Barak-8) is effective again such attack, thus this missile likely will have a huge impact on India's naval strategy and defence procurement, maybe leading to India acquiring an Aegis ship armed with SM-3 missiles, or perhpas an european ship with Aster30? Anyway, it is a game changer and certainly has to potential to nullify any advantages Brahmos might have brought for India. A brief summary comparing 400 AKG and Brahmos.

Range: equal
Speed: 400AKG
Maneuvability: Equal in the terminal phase, edge to Brahmos in the middile course
Warhead: Brahmos, but it is a much bigger missile also
Detectability: Brahmos is sea skimming capable (don't think it can fly as low as Exocet or C802 though), 400AKG is not
Cost: 400AKG
Flexibility: 400AKG is small, 2 can be carried by JF17. Only specially modified 30MKI can carry just 1 Brahmos, edge 400AKG
Guidance: Equal
 

p2prada

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This is a regular air to surface missile.

This is most probably a missile like the KH-15 or KH-22. It will most probably climb to a height of 20 or 30Km and then drop down from there at a high speed. So, it is not something we have to be particularly worried about because the technology is from the 60s and Barak 8 should be more than sufficient against it.

Considering it is meant to target ships, it will have an active seeker. It won't have to turn on the seeker only at terminal flight. It can do so from a longer distance. Other than that, a Chinese version could be bigger and the missile could also have OTH capability along with a range over 500Km, maybe 1000+Km. Meaning it can have a very large stand off capability.

If the seeker is IR/TV, well, it will be useless.

Also, can we stop comparing Brahmos to it? It doesn't make sense.
 

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