Chinese Aspiration for Aircraft Carrier

Discussion in 'China' started by SHASH2K2, May 22, 2010.

  1. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,711
    Likes Received:
    723
    Location:
    Bihar, BanGalore , India
    US statements and imagery show that China is making progress in completing the refurbishment of the ex-Soviet/Ukrainian aircraft carrier Varyag , now reported to have been renamed the Admiral Shilang .

    Admiral Robert F Willard, Commander of the US Pacific Command, told the US House of Representatives on 23 March that "China's leaders are pursuing an aircraft carrier capability. ... I expect this carrier [the ex- Varyag ] to become operational around 2012 and will likely be used to develop basic aircraft carrier skills." While it remains to be seen whether China can also assemble its new carrier air wing by 2012, Adm Willard's statement marks a reversal of the US intelligence community opinion expressed in the 2002 annual US Department of Defense report on Chinese military modernisation, which stated: "While continuing to research and discuss possibilities, China appears to have set aside indefinitely plans to acquire an aircraft carrier."

    Near the time of Adm Willard's testimony, on about 17 March, imagery available on Chinese military issue web pages showed the Shilang had emerged from, and had been placed beside, the new Dalian harbour area drydock it entered in late April 2009. By 23 March this source was showing that the greatly modified hull structure had entered the process of degaussing (demagnetising) to reduce vulnerability to magnetic mines and to aid the operation of sophisticated electronic components. Major modifications began on the carrier's prominent island in mid-October 2009. Sections fore and aft the stack were removed and replaced with new pre-fabricated structures to accommodate the four arrays of its new phased-array naval radar. This radar is likely to be similar to the Ukrainian-influenced active phased-array system developed early in the last decade for the Chinese Navy's Type 052C destroyers.

    Recent imagery also shows increased activity on the carrier's deck: an indication that work may also be under way to replace the aircraft arresting gear or rebuild engine-blast barriers used to help launch aircraft off the carrier's ski-jump ramp.

    A lack of progress in negotiations with Russia to purchase a useful number of modernised twin-engine Sukhoi Su-33 carrier-borne fighters, because of a combination of Russian frustration over copyright protection and Russian demands that China purchase an economically viable number (between 30 and 40), has turned attention to the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation's longstanding effort to produce its own carrier-based fighter. Inasmuch as Shenyang's J-11 is a modified copy of the Su-27SK with an improved radar and eventually a Chinese turbofan, Shenyang is expected to produce its own version of the Su-33 or a carrier-capable version of the J-11, sometimes referred to as the 'J-15'. In late August 2009 unconfirmed Chinese reports emerged that a prototype for this Shenyang carrier-borne fighter had made its first flight.

    The Chengdu Aircraft Corporation also appears ready to produce a carrier-capable version of its J-10, although this single-engine fighter would require significant modification. However, in November 2009 a Chengdu test pilot was reported by Chinese media as saying Chengdu had conducted simulations of a J-10 carrier launch.

    The People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) is also developing critical support aircraft for its future carrier air wing. In late October 2009 internet images emerged of a Changhe Z-8 helicopter carrying a new retractable radar array, similar in configuration to the French Horizon radar used for battlefield support and mounted on a Super Puma helicopter. However, there are also indications that the PLA may be considering a version of the Sukhoi Su-80 twin-boom utility turboprop or another indigenous twin-turboprop design for airborne early warning, anti-submarine warfare and carrier onboard delivery missions.
     
  2.  
  3. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    10,397
    Likes Received:
    2,314
    Whatever happened to posting links? As far as China putting the Varyag into service....

    There is no evidence the hull has been cut to install boilers. No engines means it isn't going anywhere unless towed. At best it can be used as a training platform but little else. It has no strategic value.
     
  4. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    8,120
    Likes Received:
    1,541
    Location:
    Bangalore, India
    Armand, is it true that the Chinese AC was bought by China from Ukraine for building a casino inside it, but then secretly transported to China? Heard that somewhere in this forum.
     
  5. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    10,397
    Likes Received:
    2,314
    It wasn't secretly transported, it was bought by a Chinese tourist company from Ukraine under the agreement it would be made into a casino. That obviously never happened. There are all kinds of legal implications if China tries to commission the Varyag, such as breaking the terms of sale for its intended purpose, the agreement with Ukraine said not for military purposes. Also transporting a ship of war exceeding 50,000 tonnes through the Dardenelles could bring legal challenges from Turkey. All kinds of court cases could be made.
     
  6. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    8,120
    Likes Received:
    1,541
    Location:
    Bangalore, India
    /\/\ So, where is the Varyag now, in Ukraine or it has been brought back to China?
     
  7. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    10,397
    Likes Received:
    2,314
    It is in Dalian China under lock and key.
     
  8. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,711
    Likes Received:
    723
    Location:
    Bihar, BanGalore , India
    " under lock and key " . I dinot understand that . hope you wont mind that.
     
  9. rojesh

    rojesh Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    7
    I saw this AC in 2000 during my voyage to China for Dry dock. I dont remember the shipyard name. I think it was in guangzhou china shipyards. I was told it's going to be a casino or restaurant. It had some Mi dummy parked on the deck.
     
  10. gogbot

    gogbot Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    937
    Likes Received:
    116
    For those curious bout the "Varyag"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_aircraft_carrier_Varyag

    Basic info

    [​IMG]

    Sat pic
    http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=dalian&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=40.103276,81.738281&ie=UTF8&ll=38.940815,121.643956&spn=0.005875,0.009978&t=h&z=17&om=1

    Good pics showing the transformation of the Varyg over time
    http://www.jeffhead.com/redseadragon/varyagtransform.htm

    China bought a rust bucket from Ukraine , for 20 million
    The ship was just shaped steel at this point , nothing was installed.
    It was a floating amalgamation of steel in the shape of an Aircraft carrier,
    and they have spent the last 8 years trying to make it a working ship against

    (ship when purchased in 2000 , the rust bucket in all its glory)
    [​IMG]

    More painting and refit work contiues on the Varyag, now in official PLAN colors in 2005 and with flags flying for a VIP visit.
    [​IMG]


    Overhead view of the Varyag in June 2007 in Dalian. The hull & flight deck seem complete structurally, but the island is yet to be completed or fitted.
    [​IMG]

    The Vayrag out of dry dock in March 2010. Appears to be going through degausse.
    [​IMG]

    The level of technology and capability is debatable, but what we do know is the best China can do for aircraft carriers is buy flatting rust bucket for 20 million dollars under the guise of a casino, tow the thing all the way back to China , then spend the next 8 years trying to get it operational.
     
  11. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    10,397
    Likes Received:
    2,314
    Meaning it is under heavy guard, no one is allowed near it.
     
  12. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    3,491
    Likes Received:
    592
    That can't be possible.
    In 2000, Varyag was trapped in Ukraine because Turkey forbidded it to pass through Dardanelles.

    I assume what you saw is another AC, Minsk,which has been transformed into an entertainment facility and now is located in ShenZhen( Guangdong province).

    The third AC in China is Kiev, which as well as Minsk ,is serving as an entertainment facility in Tianjin.

    The fourth AC bought by China is Melbourne, which was splitted up and disassembled in 1985.

    BTW, Kiev and Misnk are like sisters, they belong to the same Kiev Class.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2010
  13. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,524
    Likes Received:
    1,548
    At best it can be used as a training platform but little else. It has no strategic value.
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    exactly so. CN worked guts out to get Turkey's permission to tug V through the Dardenelles with trade-offs such as arms sales and tourism despite the US' intervention then. However, CN is said to have acquired the blueprints and core tech of V for 'reverse engineering'

    those that were transformed to theme parks are
    Kiev - Tianjin 2006
    Minsk - Shenzhen 2000

    RMB130 per visit

    Minsk was bought by S Korea along with Novorossiysk at $13m altogether for 'scrapping' in 1995 with the US behind the curtain. But 1998 crisis set SK back and SK had to resell the unscrapped Minsk at $5.3m
     
  14. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    10,397
    Likes Received:
    2,314
    What is being done to Varyag is the same as being done at the engineering school in Wuhan, turned into a life sized training platform of China's future carrier which will be a reverse engineered copy of the Varyag. No doubt in my mind about that. The only thing I am waiting to see is the keel laid down for a new carrier.
     
  15. AJSINGH

    AJSINGH Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,237
    Likes Received:
    74
    Location:
    hyderabad
    You see this aircraft carrier is more of traiing platform than real operational working AC..chinnese have to develop the tactic and how to use naval arm for optimum attack
     
  16. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    10,397
    Likes Received:
    2,314
    A training platform yes, not to develop tactics for optimum naval attack. It is more for basic training in everyday carrier operations. Unless you can move it with a battle group you will not gain experience in developing tactics.
     
  17. AJSINGH

    AJSINGH Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,237
    Likes Received:
    74
    Location:
    hyderabad
    India leads in AC operation ,well because we have been operation AC for long time now and over time IN has developed brilliant tactics
     
  18. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,711
    Likes Received:
    723
    Location:
    Bihar, BanGalore , India
    thanks for the info .
     
  19. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,711
    Likes Received:
    723
    Location:
    Bihar, BanGalore , India
    Indian navy has been operating AC since ages and have technical knowhow of aircraft carriers.Making AC is diffrent thing and mastering/operating is a diffrent ball game all together .
     
  20. AJSINGH

    AJSINGH Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,237
    Likes Received:
    74
    Location:
    hyderabad
    true , but we still lead in making an AC too , with first AC already in production , yeh we need to build larger ports to make larger AC
     
  21. gogbot

    gogbot Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    937
    Likes Received:
    116
    The Navy , is creating a number of new bases and shipyards(some of the largest in Asia) to meet it's demands this decade , re-design work on theIAC-2 shows the navy's intentions, hopefully by the end of it , IAC-3 will have the infrastructure to be something more grand.
     

Share This Page