China's territory not allowed for sale: FM spokesman

[J20!]

These islands were not occupied nor effectively administered by iether china nor Japan before imperial times. During the imperial times it was controlled by Japan until the present time. And at some point during the early 19th century was populated and industrialized by Japan. Clearly japan has exercised effective occupation on these islands. While china way way back in history has just mapped the islands and gave it some Chinese names. At what point in history should be considered as basis for claiming these islands? If we take it all the way back then china should claim all of Asia because they practically mapped them before and gave names.

Flawed argument. You're overlooking the fact that Japan FORCIBLY took Taiwan and all surrounding islands, including the Diayu's in the 19th century, forcing the Chinese government to sign them over formerly in a treaty that was then revoked after world war two.

After China lost the war, both countries signed the Treaty of Shimonoseki in April 1895 that stipulated, among other things, that China would cede to Japan "the island of Formosa together with all islands appertaining or belonging to said island of Formosa (Taiwan)".[7]
The treaty, however, was nullified after Japan lost the Second world war in 1945 by the Treaty of San Francisco, which was signed between Japan and part of the Allied Powers in 1951.

Whether or not they industrialized them during this occupation is rendered moot by the fact that it was an OCCUPATION. They should have been returned to Chinese rule just as Taiwan was. If we follow your reasoning, then Taiwan should be Japanese too, because I'm pretty sure Japan utilized Taiwan as well during its Imperial warring days..

 

[Oblaks]

Flawed argument. You're overlooking the fact that Japan FORCIBLY took Taiwan and all surrounding islands, including the Diayu's in the 19th century, forcing the Chinese government to sign them over formerly in a treaty that was then revoked after world war two.



Whether or not they industrialized them during this occupation is rendered moot by the fact that it was an OCCUPATION. They should have been returned to Chinese rule just as Taiwan was. If we follow your reasoning, then Taiwan should be Japanese too, because I'm pretty sure Japan utilized Taiwan as well during its Imperial warring days..

The treaty of shimonoseki ceded " Formosa and the islands belonging to Formosa" to Japan and was nullified after Japan's defeat. The senkakus or daiyous were not mentioned in the treaty. The senkakus are not part of formosa so it was not forcefully taken from china and there was nothing to nullify because those islands have been annexed by Japan even before the sino Japanese war?

By you logic then Taiwan should be more aggressive in claiming the islands and NOT china!

 

[s002wjh]

These islands were not occupied nor effectively administered by iether china nor Japan before imperial times. During the imperial times it was controlled by Japan until the present time. And at some point during the early 19th century was populated and industrialized by Japan. Clearly japan has exercised effective occupation on these islands. While china way way back in history has just mapped the islands and gave it some Chinese names. At what point in history should be considered as basis for claiming these islands? If we take it all the way back then china should claim all of Asia because they practically mapped them before and gave names.

ignorant is a bless i guess, denial. search any historic record of sino-japanese history, 19th to early 20 century, youll find plently source doesn't matter which search engine you use. after sino-japan war in that era both taiwan, and its surrounding water was forcibly given up by the chinese government. the link i show above already said this, there are many more link like it. same is true for korea occupation by jap

 

[s002wjh]

The treaty of shimonoseki ceded " Formosa and the islands belonging to Formosa" to Japan and was nullified after Japan's defeat. The senkakus or daiyous were not mentioned in the treaty. The senkakus are not part of formosa so it was not forcefully taken from china and there was nothing to nullify because those islands have been annexed by Japan even before the sino Japanese war?

By you logic then Taiwan should be more aggressive in claiming the islands and NOT china!

yes actually taiwan has more claim right than china. but are you deny that those island didnt taken forcibly by japan during that era. after WWII US let japan keep these island including some belong to korea before so now we have the whole mess about who has legit claim of the island.

 

[Ray]

right, maybe you should. i did alot chinese history study during high school/college years, and travel to asia few time to know the different between exaggerate media vs reality. the link i post take about 2min search. ive seen plently china basher basing china because its china, has nothing to do about the complicate situation of claim from different countries. the fact is all there on the net, imperial japan did conquer those island belong to china/korea when they were weakest. and now they are claiming it, whether or not it will become their territory and the issue resolve peacefully is another topic.

You make the cardinal mistake.

No one bashes the Chinese people.

They are as good as anyone else with the same joy and happiness that is there in the world.

They bash the Communist Govt wanting to use every angle they can find to grab more territory including fudging history on fair tales.

 

[J20!]

The treaty of shimonoseki ceded " Formosa and the islands belonging to Formosa" to Japan and was nullified after Japan's defeat. The senkakus or daiyous were not mentioned in the treaty. The senkakus are not part of formosa so it was not forcefully taken from china and there was nothing to nullify because those islands have been annexed by Japan even before the sino Japanese war?

By you logic then Taiwan should be more aggressive in claiming the islands and NOT china!

Taiwan IS China! And maybe you missed the pics, but :

Those are Taiwanese citizens there, not mainlander's, that speaks volumes on the overall Chinese feeling about what the Japanese are trying to do. *scoffs* "Buying" Chinese islands. haha! Classic joke right there.

The Diayou's WHERE in that treaty as they fall in the bracket of "islands belonging to Formosa", look it up. The fact that Japan incorporated those islands the same year the Shimonoseki treaty was signed should tell you something. What's up with all the denial here? Japan took those islands by force in a war with China, why return some islands and refuse to give up the Diayou's?

 

[Oblaks]

yes actually taiwan has more claim right than china. but are you deny that those island didnt taken forcibly by japan during that era. after WWII US let japan keep these island including some belong to korea before so now we have the whole mess about who has legit claim of the island.

Don't drag the dispute with Korea. You can start another thread for that if you want to discuss it. Like I said, ok maybe Taiwan was taken forcefully, but not senkaku. Why? Go back to my last post.

 

[Ray]

Indeed the Communists say Taiwan is China.

I wonder why the Taiwanese are so bent upon not being a part of China?

I am sure next we will hear that Chinatown in San Francisco is also a part of Communist China.

We are well aware how China uses fairy tales as authentic history!

 

[Oblaks]

Taiwan IS China! And maybe you missed the pics, but :

Those are Taiwanese citizens there, not mainlander's, that speaks volumes on the overall Chinese feeling about what the Japanese are trying to do. *scoffs* "Buying" Chinese islands. haha! Classic joke right there.

The Diayou's WHERE in that treaty, look it up. The fact that Japan incorporated those islands the same year the Shimonoseki treaty was signed should tell you something. What's up with all the denial here? Japan took those islands by force in a war with China, why return some islands and refuse to give up the Diayou's?

"Taiwan is china". Tell that to the Taiwanese. Anyway it does not make make senkakus as part of Formosa. Can you give a quote on the treaty which mentions daiyou or senkaku?

China's argument that the Senkaku Islands were ceded to Japan after the Sino-Japanese war of 1894-1895 and therefore the 1943 Cairo Declaration, which stipulated that Japan should return all China's territories it occupied, included these islands, is inaccurate, as Japan incorporated Senkaku Islands after confirming that these islands were "terra nullius".

Therefore, these islands were not ceded to Japan as a result of the war; it was already Japan's territory. China did not object to Japan's acquisition of the Senkaku Islands during the negotiations on the Shimonoseki Treaty after the Sino-Japanese war in March 1895, even though they were in the position to do so, nor during the following 76 years until 1971.

After World War II, the Senkaku Islands were put under the administration of the US Government as a part of Japanese territory because these islands were officially incorporated into Japan before the end of Sino-Japanese War.

Due to the issue of representation between mainland China and Taiwan, China was not a signatory of the San Francisco Peace Treaty of 1951, but this does not stand as a proof that China has "long maintained that it is illegal for US to have unilaterally exercised so-called 'administrative rights' over the Senkaku Islands."

It was only after 1971 that China started objecting toward the fact that these islands had been put under the administration of the US following the San Francisco Peace Treaty, which means that China did not consider the Senkaku Islands as part of its territory before that.

There are several official documents that describe the position of the Chinese Government perception on Senkaku Islands as a part of Okinawa, Japan. In a thank you letter sent from a Chinese Consular in Nagasaki, Japan in May 1920, regarding the lost Chinese fisherman near the Senkaku Islands, it referred to the Senkaku Islands as part of Okinawa.

On January 8, 1953, the People's Daily, the official newspaper in the People's Republic of China, refers to Senkaku Islands as part of Ryukyu Islands (Okinawa) In addition, in the world atlas issued by China in 1960, the Senkaku Islands were also treated as part of Okinawa.

 

[J20!]

"Taiwan is china". Tell that to the Taiwanese. Anyway it does not make make senkakus as part of Formosa. Can you give a quote on the treaty which mentions daiyou or senkaku?

Every country on the planet, including India agrees that Taiwan IS China. There's a reason the Japanese treaty stipulated that China cede Taiwan to them, because it's Chinese... Or do you dispute that as well?

Japan's whole argument is based on your argument, that the Diayou's weren't part of islands "belonging to Formosa", but they'd say anything to keep them wouldn't they?

There is a disagreement between the Japanese, PRC and ROC governments as to whether the islands are implied to be part of the "islands appertaining or belonging to said island of Formosa" in the Treaty of Shimonoseki.[6] The Japanese government argues that the disputed islands were terra nullius and not implied to be part of the "islands appertaining or belonging to said island of Formosa"[citation needed] but China and Taiwan both dispute the claim by citing Yamagata Aritomo's reasons and decisions to turn down the request to incorporate the islands in 1885.[8]
In 1969, the US expressed its intention to end the formal period of post-war occupation of Japan, which meant ceding a number of islands including the disputed islands to Japan.[citation needed] Both PRC and ROC asserted sovereignty over the islands.[9] The ROC made an official announcement on 11 June 1971.[citation needed] The PRC officially announced its position on 30 December 1971.

 

[Ray]

If every country including India feel that Taiwan is China, then how come that the Taiwanese don't believe the same.

They are daft?'

It could be that they believe China as it is today is not China, but a robotic image what China actually is!

And they are waiting for the day, China discovers itself from the stupidity called Communism!

 

[s002wjh]

You make the cardinal mistake.

No one bashes the Chinese people.

They are as good as anyone else with the same joy and happiness that is there in the world.

They bash the Communist Govt wanting to use every angle they can find to grab more territory including fudging history on fair tales.

so the dispute between korea and japan over some island claim is also false. japan must have these island since long time ago, never invade and occupy taiwan, korea, part of china etc . and wiki and all other history record on this subject are fairy tales? if this is not bias or anti-china sentiment then i don't know what is.

 

[s002wjh]

Don't drag the dispute with Korea. You can start another thread for that if you want to discuss it. Like I said, ok maybe Taiwan was taken forcefully, but not senkaku. Why? Go back to my last post.

yes go back to wiki, and other source on this. all of it all false, except you and why not drag korea to the topic since its related to japan expansion in WWII, and earlier.

in case you still say the island was part of japan since the beginning of time here is another source

The conflict between the Chinese and Japanese visions for east Asia would be decided on the battlefield. Despite basic naval parity Japan took advantage of a series of disastrous political and strategic errors by Li to defeat China decisively in 1894-95, establishing control over both the Senkaku/ Diaoyu islands and Korea in addition to seizing Taiwan.

http://www.historytoday.com/joyman-lee/senkakudiaoyu-islands-conflict

and another

In 1874, Japan took Liu Chiu Islands (Okinawa) from China by force when Chinese Ching Dynasty was involved in several wars with other foreign countries. However, the Diaoyu Islands still remained under the administration of Taiwan, a part of China. After being defeated by Japan in the Sino-Japan War, China ceded Taiwan to Japan under the Shimonoseki Treaty. As a part of Taiwan, the Diaoyutai Islands belonged to Japan at that time.

http://www1.american.edu/ted/ice/diaoyu.htm

now lets see your link that shows historically diaoyu/senku belong to japan even before ming/qing acquire it.

 

[J20!]

If every country including India feel that Taiwan is China, then how come that the Taiwanese don't believe the same.

They are daft?'

It could be that they believe China as it is today is not China, but a robotic image what China actually is!

And they are waiting for the day, China discovers itself from the stupidity called Communism!

Yaaaaawn... Do you ever get any new material? Base arguments on facts, not your own beliefs.... Taiwan isn't a country, they've never declared independence, but maybe they have in YOUR mind.

 

[Ray]

Yaaaaawn... Do you ever get any new material? Base arguments on facts, not your own beliefs.... Taiwan isn't a country, they've never declared independence, but maybe they have in YOUR mind.

You work too hard to prove the impossible.

Take a rest so that you don't Yawn too much. Sleep and come back fresh.

There are No Dentists here to see your teeth as you Yawn to advise!

I always give links.

You your fairy tales of History given by your story teller (The Great Historian with his magnus opus Siji)!

Taiwan has its own Flag and Constitution.

What does it indicate?

What Independence are you talking about?

Communist China BELONGS to KMT of Taiwan and they are not ready to accept the fairy tales of Communist China.

 

[J20!]

You work too hard to prove the impossible.

Take a rest so that you don't Yawn too much. Sleep and come back fresh.

There are No Dentists here to see your teeth as you Yawn to advise!

I always give links.

You your fairy tales of History given by your story teller (The Great Historian with his magnus opus Siji)!

Taiwan has its own Flag and Constitution.

What does it indicate?

Yap yap yap! Once you said All Chinese were barbarians who were yet to evolve. That's when I stopped paying attention to your rants.

Do you refute any of the info I've given? Can you prove it to be FACTUALLY incorrect? Is Taiwan a country recognized by the UN? Recognized by any country on EARTH as I said before? All your responses are "fairy tale this fairy tale that" nothing substantial.

Looking forward to your world famous question dodging. You should change your name to Neyo.

 

[Ray]

Yap yap yap! Once you said All Chinese were barbarians who were yet to evolve. That's when I stopped paying attention to your rants.

Do you refute any of the info I've given? Can you prove it to be FACTUALLY incorrect? Is Taiwan a country recognized by the UN? Recognized by any country on EARTH as I said before? All your responses are "fairy tale this fairy tale that" nothing substantial.

Looking forward to your world famous question dodging. You should change your name to Neyo.

I agree that you are a Chinese and it is your birthright to change everything to suit your convenience.

And interestingly, your read less and imagine more as if your orifices are on fire!

No, I have never said Chinese are barbarians.

I said Hans, the originals North of the Yellow River, called everyone else they captured as barbarians.

Those who accepted the silly Han culture were termed as 'Cooked' barbarians and those who did not they were termed as 'raw' barbarians.

The 100 Yues were taken to be Barbarians also.

You will naturally avoid the truth since you are a paid agent of the Communist Chinese.

What is new about that?

Disprove that 100 Yues were not taken as Barbarians and disprove the concept of 'cooked' barbarians and 'raw' barbarians that the racist Chinese, Hans North of Yellow River had classified.

Please for God's sake impress others with you lies.


Don't try it with me.

UN recognises many things, but is it the Gospel?

It is recognised by only 5 nations of the world.

How many nations are there in the world, old boy?

Does Taiwan recognise it?

The Taiwanese kick China in the face on this issue!

That is the proof of the pudding.

If the UN does not recognise that, then why are they so impotent to declare Taiwan as China, old boy?

And why is Communist China so impotent to take over Taiwan with the same vigour they are showing in claiming islands in the South China Seas?

Because they know they will be kicked in the teeth!

Any explanation, our Chinese Buddha?

 

[J20!]

I agree that you are a Chinese and it is your birthright to change everything to suit your convenience.

And interestingly, your read less and imagine more as if your orifices are on fire!

No, I have never said Chinese are barbarians.

I said Hans, the originals North of the Yellow River, called everyone else they captured as barbarians.

Those who accepted the silly Han culture were termed as 'Cooked' barbarians and those who did not they were termed as 'raw' barbarians.

The 100 Yues were taken to be Barbarians also.

You will naturally avoid the truth since you are a paid agent of the Communist Chinese.

What is new about that?

Disprove that 100 Yues were not taken as Barbarians and disprove the concept of 'cooked' barbarians and 'raw' barbarians that the racist Chinese, Hans North of Yellow River had classified.

Please for God's sake impress others with you lies.


Don't try it with me.

UN recognises many things, but is it the Gospel?

It is recognised by only 5 nations of the world.

How many nations are there in the world, old boy?

Does Taiwan recognise it?

The Taiwanese kick China in the face on this issue!

That is the proof of the pudding.

If the UN does not recognise that, then why are they so impotent to declare Taiwan as China, old boy?

And why is Communist China so impotent to take over Taiwan with the same vigour they are showing in claiming islands in the South China Seas?

Because they know they will be kicked in the teeth!

Any explanation, our Chinese Buddha?

Stop dodging and ANSWER THE QUESTIONS. Again, RANTING with no factual information... IS TAIWAN A RECOGNIZED COUNTRY? DOES EVEN THE UNITED STATES CONSIDER IT A COUNTRY?

I've said it before on other threads, and I'll say it again, you sir, are a liar:

That is what China is.

They are funkily crude and barbarians and are yet to evolve!

To imagine a 50 center trying to impress Indians as to what Chinese do!

Get a grip with reality Ray.

One more thing, you don't know me, not even my name. Yet you somehow "know" that I'm ä paid government agent"!!! Woooo! 007! I like. The CCP has much more important things to do than waste their time entertaining Indian fanboys.

 

[Ray]

J20.

I have answered each one of your issue.

Don't be a typical Chinese expecting the world to revolve around you.

Address the issues raised.

 

[Ray]

Originally Posted by Ray
That is what China is.

They are funkily crude and barbarians and are yet to evolve!

To imagine a 50 center trying to impress Indians as to what Chinese do!

Please quote post No!

One more thing, you don't know me, not even my name. Yet you somehow "know" that I'm ä paid government agent"!!! Woooo! 007! I like. The CCP has much more important things to do than waste their time entertaining Indian fanboys.

I am not surprised that none know you.

Typical Chinese.

Big Talk without a Face!