China's strategic miscalculations in South China sea - Vietnamese scholar

[s002wjh]

Re: A distinguished vietnamese scholar on "chinese strategic miscalculations in the s

Then show me that map.
In PDF, chinese propagators have already said that they even have 2000-year-old maps, but they just can't provide it, so their "historical evidences" still remain invisible and mysterious ... They don't have a single clear "historical evidence", poor them



I'm sorry but the French did rejected chinese occupation.
A legal analysis in support of Viet Nam's position regarding the Paracel & Spratly Islands

Our country was still there, just under the "protection" of France like you guys were under the "protection" of Japan.

suggest u read on zhenghe history, 1430 map. also during yuan dynasty. obivous you don't have clue on chinese history.

 

[WeNeedTheTruth]

Re: A distinguished vietnamese scholar on "chinese strategic miscalculations in the s

suggest u read on zhenghe history, 1430 map. also during yuan dynasty. obivous you don't have clue on chinese history.

Then show me that super-secret mysterious invisible hidden map here

Can you do such a simple task like that?

 

[no smoking]

Re: A distinguished vietnamese scholar on "chinese strategic miscalculations in the s

Viking02 and BinhMinh02 incidents. Chinese Pirates (PLA) attacked Vietnamese ship in Vietnamese EEZ.

That is the disputed area. You can call it vietnamese EEZ and we can call it ours. So, from our side, it was vietnamese ship violated Chinese law in Chinese EEZ.

Imagine that suddenly Russia need some lands and they invade some of your provinces in your Northern border... What will you do?

China has settled its border with Russia. While in South China Sea, there is no treay to indicate that. As long as no one droping the bomb on others head, we will be fine.

Your national interests must not harm other's legal rights, so you have to follow some kind of international rules. It's the different between Modern Era and Middle Age.
It seems that "mighty china" hasn't passed the Middle Age...

That depends how to defines your "legal" rights. Claimed by yourselves or accepted by others? It seems to me that your "legal" rights are not accepted by China, Taiwan, Phillipines, Malaysia, etc.

When you send in your armed ships to harass others fish boats in an disputed area, you really cannot blame others doing the same thing.

 

[WeNeedTheTruth]

Re: A distinguished vietnamese scholar on "chinese strategic miscalculations in the s

That is the disputed area. You can call it vietnamese EEZ and we can call it ours. So, from our side, it was vietnamese ship violated Chinese law in Chinese EEZ.

Do you have a little knowledge about what is called EEZ?

EEZ stretches from the seaward edge of the state's territorial sea out to 200 nautical miles from its coast. It's not territorial waters, therefore all ships from any countries have the right to travel freely in it. Additionally, a ship from a country travelling in its EEZ is still counted as sovereign ship travelling in sovereign area.

Then what kind of chinese EEZ is that in this area where the incident happened?

I don't know if china has 1,000 nautical miles EEZ or not. Correct me if there is some kinds of "1,000 miles EEZ".

Also, Vietnamese ship was travelling in its EEZ therefore chinese pirates (PLA) had attacked a sovereign ship in its sovereign zone. Even if you argue that it was "chinese EEZ" (if you can prove that there is some kind of 1,000 miles EEZ), china was still wrong because they had no right to attack a foreign ship in that area.

Conclusion, china is a irresponsible member of the world who don't care about International Laws, always go around and bully other nations.

China has settled its border with Russia. While in South China Sea, there is no treay to indicate that. As long as no one droping the bomb on others head, we will be fine.

We are imagining!
Imagine that suddenly Russia need some lands and they invade some of your provinces in your Northern border (yeah it's their "suddenly need" so they don't give a damn care about that treaty)... What will you do?
So, have you seen that your "country's need" idea is ridiculous?

That depends how to defines your "legal" rights. Claimed by yourselves or accepted by others? It seems to me that your "legal" rights are not accepted by China, Taiwan, Phillipines, Malaysia, etc.

We have already solved with Malaysia. We are solving with Philippines. Yeah, we respect their point of views and their reliable evidences and claims.
But china (and taiwan) is another story, because they suddenly jumped in and attacked everyone else, violates International Laws, despite the lack of any base for their claim, just for their "country's need". Or should I say their "country's greed"?

Your national interests must not harm other's legal rights, so you have to follow some kind of international rules. It's the different between Modern Era and Middle Age.
Well, I'm so sorry that china hasn't passed the Middle Age...

When you send in your armed ships to harass others fish boats in an disputed area, you really cannot blame others doing the same thing.

China is well-known for using state pirates to harass, attack, robe, steal and kidnap others' fishing boats.

http://en.baomoi.com/Home/travel/en...ticizes-Chinas-attack-on-fishermen/238727.epi
http://globalnation.inquirer.net/5887/vietnam-chinese-soldiers-attack-fishermen
http://digitaljournal.com/article/309108
http://www.thanhniennews.com/index/...pensations-for-china-attack-on-fishermen.aspx

 

[WeNeedTheTruth]

BTW, legal rights are rights that have at least some evidences to back up. We have historical evidences, international laws, Philippines and Malaysia have international laws, "mighty" china and taiwan have nothing.

 

[s002wjh]

Re: A distinguished vietnamese scholar on "chinese strategic miscalculations in the s

Then show me that super-secret mysterious invisible hidden map here

Can you do such a simple task like that?

i already give you info on searching stuff, its on wiki and other website. i shy away from those exhibit ignorance. if you think a few maps will give you the right to claim SCS, then you really more naive than i thought. all the country in that area has historical reference/map regarding SCS, phillippine, china, malasia etc etc. hence why the area is disputable. vietnam does not own scs

 

[s002wjh]

BTW, legal rights are rights that have at least some evidences to back up. We have historical evidences, international laws, Philippines and Malaysia have international laws, "mighty" china and taiwan have nothing.

oh plz before industrial revolution. china is THE power in asia, pretty much all neighbor state send tribute to china every year. during ming dynasty zhenghe sail with fleet of 500 ships through that area, and you think a powerful ancient china never had the records of SCS you need get your history straight. ancient china is one the superpower in that era.

and what international law? did any modern country recognize vietnam control of SCS? no

and if you think few maps will get your SCS, will good luck i'm pretty sure phillippine has claim that overlap vietnam claim as well.

 

[WeNeedTheTruth]

i already give you info on searching stuff, its on wiki and other website. i shy away from those exhibit ignorance. if you think a few maps will give you the right to claim SCS, then you really more naive than i thought. all the country in that area has historical reference/map regarding SCS, phillippine, china, malasia etc etc. hence why the area is disputable. vietnam does not own scs

Read this:
A legal analysis in support of Viet Nam's position regarding the Paracel & Spratly Islands

Conclusion:
- Vietnam has the strongest base to back up her claim.
- Philippines and Malaysia have a reliable base to claim, therefore we should negotiate with them. In fact we have solved with Malaysia.
- china and taiwan have nothing. They just suddenly jumped in and made a lot of mess.

Problem solved.

oh plz before industrial revolution. china is THE power in asia, pretty much all neighbor state send tribute to china every year. during ming dynasty zhenghe sail with fleet of 500 ships through that area, and you think a powerful ancient china never had the records of SCS you need get your history straight. ancient china is one the superpower in that era.

and what international law? did any modern country recognize vietnam control of SCS? no

and if you think few maps will get your SCS, will good luck i'm pretty sure phillippine has claim that overlap vietnam claim as well.

Who care were china a "powerful nation" in the past or not. It has no concern with sovereignty over Paracels.

Just read the link which I have posted, you will have all of the answers for your ridiculous trolling questions.

 

[s002wjh]

Read this:
A legal analysis in support of Viet Nam's position regarding the Paracel & Spratly Islands

Conclusion:
- Vietnam has the strongest base to back up her claim.
- Philippines and Malaysia have a reliable base to claim, therefore we should negotiate with them. In fact we have solved with Malaysia.
- china and taiwan have nothing. They just suddenly jumped in and made a lot of mess.

Problem solved.



Who care were china a "powerful nation" in the past or not. It has no concern with sovereignty over Paracels.

Just read the link which I have posted, you will have all of the answers for your ridiculous trolling questions.

of course a powerful nation are connected with sovereignty ofSCS. a powerful nation influence its region, it will have much outer reach than those who is not a powerful nation, hence ancient china has the records on SCS. why do you think its named south china sea, and not vietnam east sea. the origin of the name came from china. again read zhenghe, mongol empire, qing dyansty all has record of SCS. to say china don't have record of SCS, its like saying US don't have record of gulf of mexico in 18-19th century. the SCS is in chinas backyard

your claim is no more than other countries claim.

i'm gonna stop argue with this over and over. if you think vietnam has claim over SCS, let vietnam claim heard over international court and see how many acutally said SCS is part of vietnam, the first non-involve party against it will be US. you don't have more right to claim the area more than china/phillippine or other. and you don't have the power like china to influence the region.

 

[WeNeedTheTruth]

of course a powerful nation are connected with sovereignty ofSCS. a powerful nation influence its region, it will have much outer reach than those who is not a powerful nation, hence ancient china has the records on SCS. why do you think its named south china sea, and not vietnam east sea. the origin of the name came from china. again read zhenghe, mongol empire, qing dyansty all has record of SCS. to say china don't have record of SCS, its like saying US don't have record of gulf of mexico in 18-19th century. the SCS is in chinas backyard

Thanks to china's argument, the whole Indian Ocean belongs to our Indian friends :thumb: The Sea of Japan, the Persian Gulf ... you know what I mean
I don't care your ancient dynasties had record about SCS or not, because recordings and discovery are unable to be the base of a claim, your ancient dynasties had to Set Sovereignty. As I said, you had better read the link I have posted.
A legal analysis in support of Viet Nam's position regarding the Paracel & Spratly Islands

According to international law, the discovery of a terra nullius itself does not sufficiently legitimize any legal status for the discovering State over that territory. To acquire sovereignty over the terra nullius, a State must effectively occupy that territory. There are two principles that govern this effective occupation. The first is the principle of actuality, which requires that the State actually possesses the terra nullius, considers it as part of the State's territory, and exercises State authority and administration over it for a reasonable period of time. In addition to the material (corpus) element, the actual possession also requires the intentional (animus) element of whether a State wishes to possess the terra nullius. The second is the principle of publicity, which requires that the possession by a State must be announced to, or acknowledged by, other sovereign States1. An individual or a company cannot acquire sovereignty over a territory.

As china is using terra nullius, they have to have those 2 principles. But they have none in fact Discovery and Geographical Recordings have no concern with terra nullius.

your claim is no more than other countries claim.

i'm gonna stop argue with this over and over. if you think vietnam has claim over SCS, let vietnam claim heard over international court and see how many acutally said SCS is part of vietnam, the first non-involve party against it will be US. you don't have more right to claim the area more than china/phillippine or other. and you don't have the power like china to influence the region.

Hey, why china always deny to go the International Court? Because they know that they have no base to claim 80% of SCS like that

 

[Zero_Wing]

Re: China's strategic miscalculations in South China sea - Vietnamese

We have overlapping claim no just overlapping EEZ with Vietnam And the Rest of ASEAN but in that case can solve it in ASEAN the problem here is china her U shape claim is the real problem because unlike the rest of us china claims West Philippine Sea (south china sea) it as part of her national territory ignoring the UNCLOS altogether leaving no one with nothing on our case of overlapping EZZ this can be work out between Malaysia and Indonesia and my country since are archipelago nations its in the UNCLOS but in the case Vietnam i don't know Vietnam is land mass not archipelago but i think this would be hard to solve with her but am confident that since we are fellow ASEAN country we will find ways to solve the issue of overlapping EEZ our real problem here is china

 

[desicanuk]

Re: A distinguished vietnamese scholar on "chinese strategic miscalcul

Spot on.This strategy seems to be working to PRC's advantage vis a vis India.Catastrophic defeat awaits us unless we come up with an ingenious strategy to deal with PRC coupled with a sustained high economic growth for a long time.

No, China would bite and grab slowly, very clinically. A hot head on clash is not probable, given the reasons you've already mentioned.
China may not even attack anyone in the region. To reach its goal it may rather force other instabilities and things like regime change in the small countries of the region.

Regards,
Virendra

 

[Thai]

Re: China's strategic miscalculations in South China sea - Vietnamese

We have overlapping claim no just overlapping EEZ with Vietnam And the Rest of ASEAN but in that case can solve it in ASEAN the problem here is china her U shape claim is the real problem because unlike the rest of us china claims West Philippine Sea (south china sea) it as part of her national territory ignoring the UNCLOS altogether leaving no one with nothing on our case of overlapping EZZ this can be work out between Malaysia and Indonesia and my country since are archipelago nations its in the UNCLOS but in the case Vietnam i don't know Vietnam is land mass not archipelago but i think this would be hard to solve with her but am confident that since we are fellow ASEAN country we will find ways to solve the issue of overlapping EEZ our real problem here is china

The overlapping claim between Philippine and Vietnam is naturally and to finding a resolution for these 2 countries is likely 99% accomplished as base on the mutual recognition and within ASEAN codes. It's not the same case with China .

 

[cobra commando]

Hague Verdict: China Has No Legal Basis to Claim South China Sea Resources

 

[Mikesingh]

Philippines wins South China Sea case against China

China has lost a key international legal case over strategic reefs and atolls that it claims would give it control over disputed waters of the South China Sea.

The judgment by an international tribunal in The Hague is overwhelmingly in favour of claims by the Philippines and will increase global diplomatic pressure on Beijing to scale back military expansion in the sensitive area. By depriving certain outcrops of territorial-generating status, the ruling effectively punches holes in China’s all-encompassing “nine-dash” line that stretches deep into the South China Sea.

What was the ruling in the South China Sea case?

The Hague tribunal overwhelmingly backed the Philippines in a case on the disputed waters of the South China Sea, ruling that rocky outcrops claimed by China - some of which are exposed only at low tide – cannot be used as the basis of territorial claims.

It said some of the waters were “within the exclusive economic zone of the Philippines, because those areas are not overlapped by any possible entitlement of China”. The tribunal furthermore found China had violated the Philippines’ sovereign rights in those waters by interfering with its fishing and petroleum exploration and by constructing artificial islands.

The tribunal declared that “although Chinese navigators and fishermen, as well as those of other states, had historically made use of the islands in the South China Sea, there was no evidence that China had historically exercised exclusive control over the waters or their resources. “The tribunal concluded that there was no legal basis for China to claim historic rights to resources within the sea areas falling within the ‘nine-dash line’.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/12/philippines-wins-south-china-sea-case-against-china

The Chinese are living in a world of their own. Being a permanent member of the UN Security Council, they should have acted more maturely and responsibly and adhered to UN Resolutions like the UNCLOS. Their muscle flexing and arrogance is going to be the reason for their downfall.

In fact they should be kicked out of the UN Security Council and their permanent seat be given to India instead.

 

[asianobserve]

This decision is not surprising. China has no reason to claim that area. The only weak link now in this issue is actually the Philippines with its semi-idiotic new President Duterte who has been signaling accommodation to China (maybe his candidacy was bankrolled by the Chinese).

 

[LETHALFORCE]

China looks like a joke these delusional clowns think they can challenge USA?


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[cobra commando]

btw

 

[adrenalin]

China looks like a joke these delusional clowns think they can challenge USA?


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i think they can challenge USA sir, with noodles

 

[Yumdoot]

Yahan bhi China, wahan bhi china, aur aunty china ke baap ki