China's poor

Discussion in 'China' started by Ray, May 21, 2013.

  1. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    China is richer, but most Chinese are still poor

    Now that China has surpassed Japan to become the world's second-largest economy, economists predict it's on track to replace the US as the world's biggest by 2025. But what does the higher rank really mean for the average Chinese citizen?
    There is no doubt China has achieved impressive growth over the past decade. But even though the country has averaged about 10% growth over the past several years, that doesn't mean the average Chinese citizen is necessarily eating or sleeping better than the average German or Frenchman. In fact, with GDP per capita at $3,744 in 2009, China placed #86 out of 164 countries ranked according to 2009 World Bank data. This was just below much smaller economies such as Tunisia, Albania and Jordan.
    While Japan might have lost its place to China, the average citizen there is still generally much richer. In 2009, Japan's GDP per capita, at $39,727, ranked it 19. What's more, even while the size of the U.S. economy ranks just one notch above China's, it's nevertheless one of the richest countries in the world with GDP per capita in 2009 at $45,989. In 2010, Japan's GDP per capita rose to $42,500 while in the U.S. it rose to $47,100.

    Even while China's population is still poor relative to most developed countries, many of its citizens must be feeling flush with wealth. Its GDP per capita surged from just $3,744 in 2009 to $4,300 in 2010, according to the CIA Factbook, a 15% jump

    [​IMG]

    There is little doubt that China's economy will eventually surpass the U.S., mostly because of its sheer size -- its population is 1.3 billion, versus just 300 million in the U.S. Starting in 2000, China's economy began its aggressive climb through the top ten economies, surpassing many of the world's most advanced economies. In 2000, it bumped Italy to become the sixth-biggest economy in the world. Five years later, China unseated France, rising its way to be the fifth-largest economy. Then in 2006, it trumped the United Kingdom, then Germany the next year.

    China stayed in third place for the next three years until 2010. It was the year when Japan's economy – hampered by weak demand and a rapidly aging population – contracted by 0.3% during the fourth quarter, marking the first time in five quarters that its economy has ever contracted.

    [​IMG]

    China is richer, but most Chinese are still poor - Term Sheet

    ********************************************

    How far is this correct?
     
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  3. mylegend

    mylegend Regular Member

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    China have missed the Golden period of devolop in the 1950s-70s, and did not reform until 70s due to evil and selfishness of Mao and CCP. China and US could have been Ally against the common enemy the USSR. However, insanity of Mao decide to confront both superpower at the same time.

    Because China is late to the game, it will take much longer for Chinese living standard to catch up.
     
  4. mylegend

    mylegend Regular Member

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    Another factor is the great regional disparity of wealth, the coastal provinces has been much more well off then inner provinces. Many regions has surpass $10,000 per capital mark that Beijing, Zhejiang, the Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region, Beijing, Tianjin, Shanghai, Shenzhen and etc.
    Here is a list of top Chinese region as of 2011.

    List of top prefecture-level cities by GDP per capita over ten thousand US dollars in 2011
    Rank cities CNY US$ PPP Province
    Alxa League 168,078 26,023 40,865 Inner Mongolia[1]
    1 Ordos 163,014 25,239 39,634 Inner Mongolia[1]
    2 Daqing 133,301 20,639 32,410 Heilongjiang[2]
    3 Dongying 130,811 20,253 31,804 Shandong[3]
    4 Karamay 129,105 19,989 31,389 Xinjiang[4]
    5 Baotou 112,372 17,398 27,321 Inner Mongolia[1]
    6 Shenzhen 110,421 17,096 26,847 Guangdong[5]
    7 Wuxi 107,437 16,634 26,121 Jiangsu[6]
    8 Suzhou 102,129 15,812 24,831 Jiangsu[6]
    9 Jiayuguan 101,306 15,685 24,631 Gansu[7]
    Haixi Prefecture 97,747 15,134 23,765 Qinghai[8]
    10 Guangzhou 97,588 15,109 23,727 Guangdong[5]
    11 Dalian 91,295 14,135 22,197 Liaoning[9]
    12 Wuhai 89,830 13,908 21,841 Inner Mongolia[1]
    13 Zhuhai 89,794 13,903 21,832 Guangdong[5]
    14 Foshan 86,073 13,326 20,927 Guangdong[5]
    Tianjin 85,213 13,193 20,718 Tianjin
    Shanghai 82,560 12,783 20,073 Shanghai
    Beijing 81,658 12,643 19,854 Beijing
    15 Hangzhou 80,480 12,461 19,567 Zhejiang[10]
    16 Tongling 79,644 12,331 19,364 Anhui[11]
    17 Panjin 79,584 12,322 19,349 Liaoning[9]
    18 Changsha 79,530 12,313 19,336 Hunan[12]
    19 Ningbo 79,523 12,312 19,335 Zhejiang[10]
    20 Changzhou 77,485 11,997 18,839 Jiangsu[6]
    21 Nanjing 76,263 11,808 18,542 Jiangsu[6]
    22 Qingdao 75,546 11,697 18,368 Shandong[3]
    23 Weihai 75,316 11,661 18,312 Shandong[3]
    24 Hohhot 75,266 11,653 18,300 Inner Mongolia[1]
    25 Zhenjiang 73,981 11,454 17,987 Jiangsu[6]
    26 Shenyang 72,648 11,248 17,663 Liaoning[9]
    27 Zibo 72,182 11,176 17,550 Shandong[3]
    28 Tangshan 71,565 11,080 17,400 Hebei[13]
    29 Xiamen 70,832 10,967 17,221 Fujian[14]
    30 Yantai 70,380 10,897 17,112 Shandong[3]
    31 Zhongshan 70,014 10,840 17,023 Guangdong[5]
    32 Zhoushan 68,446 10,597 16,641 Zhejiang[10]
    33 Yulin, Shaanxi 68,358 10,584 16,620 Shaanxi[15]
    34 Wuhan 68,286 10,573 16,602 Hubei[16]
    35 Anshan 68,224 10,563 16,587 Liaoning[9]
    36 Xinyu 68,155 10,552 16,571 Jiangxi[17]
    37 Shaoxing 67,675 10,478 16,454 Zhejiang[10]
    Xilingol League 67,584 10,464 16,432 Inner Mongolia[1]

    List of prefecture-level cities by GDP per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  5. MAYURA

    MAYURA New Member

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    You are factually wrong on one count.

    Mao did not take on both superpowers ( or for that matter even one ) as till 1962 USSR was allied with china so much so that on october 29 1962 in heat of indo china war., soviet military spokesperson supported chinese claim.


    relations worsened only after that though its start began earlier and by 1971 it was clear that USA and china were friends.

    china then sat on lap of USA just as it had done with USSR. when tangxiaoping went to america to ask for USA assistance he was reaping the ties built by oppurtunist Nixon and Mao.


    however, i agree that if you adopted capitalist model which mao hated, chinese economy today would have been much larger than USA economy though officila books in china would not tell you this.


    we indians on the other hand are still in clutches of indian version of mao aka nehru family.

    so be happy that in 1975 you started with us at similar condition ( 54 percent of indians and 51 percent of chinese were living below poverty line at that time) but now you have marched far ahead .
     
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  6. mylegend

    mylegend Regular Member

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    What i meant is China should have pick the better side, USSR will not able to offer the trade opportunity US and western world can offer. China should have sided with US much earlier to enjoy the honey moon before the unavoidable collapsed of Soviet Union.

    USSR relation strained after death of Stalin. Soviet has gone through ideology changes that Mao did not support. As a result within few years, majority of Soviet support and its expert are gone.

    Soviet did not support China in the 1962 conflict, that is one of reason along with supply line that cause Chinese retreat.

    On 2 October, Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev defended Nehru in a meeting with Mao. This action reinforced China's impression that the Soviet Union, the United States and India all had expansionist designs on China. The People's Liberation Army went so far as to prepare a self-defence counterattack plan.[2] Negotiations were restarted between the nations, but no progress was made.

    A agree with you that earlier the reform, the better it will be for the nation.

     
    Last edited: May 22, 2013
  7. MAYURA

    MAYURA New Member

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    Look, i am not denying soviet sino strains since time of Nikita khruschev but Mao did not " take on " USSR before 1963.

    I have read a lot of books on that ideaological differences as in India it led to schism in Communist party.
    the pro soviet party became CPI and pro china party became CPI M .



    ofcourse any nation with common sense should have sided with USA but for commie traitors in most of asian countries this did not become a possibility.
     
  8. MAYURA

    MAYURA New Member

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    I would like to add that all this thing about china being rich but chinese poor is nonsense as china was very poor till 1978 so the modern day gap you are seeing is not fault of chinese current leadership but just a carryover of past.

    when any nation progresses disparities do remain but it is normal.
    in early 20th century USA, most people were very poor but USA marched ahead. same thing with china as people grow rich many are left behind but gradually they too will be lifted from poverty.

    it is better to live in a colony with 5 multistoried houses along with many huts rather than a slum dwelling settlements.

    ofcourse in former, inequality is more.
     
  9. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    In 1980s, you can prove Chinese poverty by comparing them to tailand, malaysia or indonesia;
    In 1990s, you can prove Chinese poverty by comparing them to Hongkong, Taiwan or South Korea;
    Now, you have to prove Chinese proverty by comparing them to Japan, Germany and USA;
     
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  10. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Do you know what was USA's pre-condition for setting up diplomatic relationship with PRC in 1949?

    1. Bearing all the debt KMT borrowed from USA (including those for civil war against CCP)
    2. Accept the treaty KMT signed with USA, which was another version of Sino-Japan 21 terms
    3. CCP cut all its relationship with any communism countries, which actually ripe of China's diplomatic indepence

    In one word, China should be like a puppet country like south korea. The only problem is USA can't afford having a 20 times big south korea!
     
  11. RedDragon

    RedDragon Regular Member

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    "we indians on the other hand are still in clutches of indian version of mao aka nehru family."

    I think you have reformed in the 90s
     
  12. RedDragon

    RedDragon Regular Member

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    :mad: No regions of our mighty NorthEast in it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But I think, although not top, NorthEast China should be at least middle of China as we have a lot of good land and heavy industrial. We just lack the gene of business.
    By the way, our Indian friends, how about the gap between different regions of India? Which part is most rich and which is most poor.
     
  13. t_co

    t_co Senior Member Senior Member

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    Much of this distinction has to do with the fact that the central government in China has decided to give local governors a huuuuge amount of leeway in setting their own economic policies. This is something India should emulate. Why is it that India still wants to have nationwide labor laws or corporate regulations? Instead, the center should let the states compete with each other to attract investment and economic growth using whatever means necessary, and deliver the verdicts when the GDP numbers roll in.
     
  14. MAYURA

    MAYURA New Member

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    the situation in india is reverse as in china north east and north where great empires where formed are engines of chinese rocket growth wheras in india, north and northeast are very poor.

    My home state has a population of 200 million larger than Sichuan but its per capita gdp is just 900 dollars on same level as sub saharan africa.

    on the other hand we have western india and south where per capita gdp is near 3000 dollars but since they are not populous, they fail to make the difference.


    regional disparity in india is twice than china.
     
  15. MAYURA

    MAYURA New Member

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    No the overall model is socialistic with too much govt restrictions and labour laws.

    Anyone can tell you that india is not good place to do business as it lacks reform.


    Parag Khanna said it nicely

    " india has political liberalization, china has economic liberalization"
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2013
  16. MAYURA

    MAYURA New Member

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    Professor Hua, an american chinese has written a good book on genetic determinants that spur the growth of china ( east asia for that matter) and west.

    as per him indians, africans and muslims of arab world lack such genes. This explains your amazement and be rest assured he is very famous there.
     
  17. MAYURA

    MAYURA New Member

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    A sort of alliance did come after 1969 so it was possible even then.

    I do not want to take away chinese genetic capacity to be on top but you do owe USA a lot for your great economic miracle.
     
  18. t_co

    t_co Senior Member Senior Member

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    Blech. I find racial arguments for economic growth disgusting on a basic moral level. Any effects from those sorts of studies are likely to have other, more likely, explanations.
     
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  19. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Thanks for the clarification.
     
  20. mylegend

    mylegend Regular Member

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    What is your source? USA can easily afford it. Just check how much FDI was coming from US after 1980s. What is wrong to be part of NATO or other USA alliance? The benefit is clear, and the downside is only worthless pride. Bear in mind, Pride come from power in international politic.

    CCP is murderer, you need to look no further than great leap forward and cultural revolution. CCP pay negligible effort to fight Japan during WW2 while they are salary by KMT. All this happen while KMT soldiers were fighting in front line. Even Mao himself credit Japanese for CCP's success, he said without Japan, CCP can not rule China. We can clearly see who is backstabbing China.

    You do not need to look beyond Taiwan to find out what would be China now without the CCP.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2013
  21. MAYURA

    MAYURA New Member

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    However racial explaination is right as it is fact that income is distributed on the basis of race in world.

    Whites are richest, followed by east asians who are not as rich but certainly better than arab muslims who are fairer than south asianas.

    south asians are darker than whites, arabs and east asians so they are poorest among these groups.

    Finally dark and black africans are still poorer . this is the theory of Professor Hua and i support his theory as it makes sense to anyone who dares speak truth rather than emotional statements like babies

    " all races are equal" they are not and some people do need extra aid to lift themselves.
     

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