China's Fifth-Generation Fighters

Discussion in 'China' started by bengalraider, Nov 21, 2009.

  1. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    Publication: China Brief Volume: 9 Issue: 23November 19, 2009 12:51 PM Age: 1 days
    By: Russell Hsiao
    [​IMG]
    PLAAF Deputy Commander Gen. He Weirong
    On November 9, General He Weirong, deputy commander of the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF), confirmed long-standing speculations that the PLAAF is developing fifth-generation fighters (fourth-generation in Chinese standard), which may be in service within 8 to 10 years, and certainly by 2020. During an interview with state-owned China Central Television (CCTV) two days ahead of the 60th anniversary of the PLAAF on November 11, Deputy Commander He announced that the next-generation fighter would soon undergo its first flight, closely followed by flight trials (Xinhua News Agency, November 9). The senior military officer's disclosure reflects the considerable progress that the PLAAF has made in force modernization, which has exceeded Western expectations in terms of the pace of development and the capabilities of its defense industrial base. While China remains several steps behind the United States in operationalizing its advanced fighter jets, the PLA's rapid military modernization has raised concerns among U.S. allies in the region that the military balance is beginning to tilt toward China's favor.

    In an interview with Global Times, PLAAF Commander Xu Qiliang stated, “superiority in space and in air would mean, to a certain extent, superiority over the land and the oceans” (Global Times, November 2), thereby highlighting the PLAAF's position in Chinese military planning. At an event commemorating the PLAAF’s 60th anniversary, President Hu Jintao heralded a “new chapter” in the development of the PLAAF (Global Times, November 10).

    China’s fifth-generation fighters will reportedly have 4S capabilities: stealth, super cruise, super maneuverability and short take-off. According to Air Force Colonel Dai Xu, “its most striking characteristic is the capability of invisibility, which also could be called low detectability” (Global Times, November 10). The U.S. F-22 Raptor serves as the gold standard of fifth-generation fighters, which is currently the only fifth-generation fighter in service among all the world's armed forces. According to General He's interview, Chengdu Aircraft, the country's leading fighter manufacturer, is reportedly developing the fighter with Shenyang Aircraft (Xinhua News Agency, November 9).

    General He’s startling revelation that the next-generation fighter may be in service by 2020 stands in stark contrast to the Chinese habit of closely guarding its military capabilities, yet consistent with a recent trend that reflects the Chinese Armed Force’s growing confidence in its military strength. During an interview with the official Xinhua News Agency back in September, Defense Minister Liang Guanglie proclaimed that, "Our [China’s] capabilities in waging defensive combat under modern conditions have taken a quantum leap … It could be said that China has basically all the kinds of equipment possessed by Western countries, much of which reaches or approaches advanced world standards" (Xinhua News Agency, September 21),

    Indeed, an ongoing survey conducted by Global Times among its Chinese users revealed some telling observations about how they perceive China's security environment and PLA airpower. The short four-question survey asks the respondents questions ranging from where they think the biggest security threat to China in the future will come from to how they rate China's airpower and what type of air force should be developed in the future. The first question, which asks how respondents view China's security environment, 46 percent of the 9,335 who answered said that they think the biggest security threat to China comes from the sea, while 43 percent responded that it is airborne. The second question asked respondents to rate China's air force, and 50.8 percent rated the Chinese Air Force as average, while 44.9 percent rated it as weak. The third question asked respondents what kind of airforce China should develop, and an overwhelming majority, 75.3 percent, responded that China ought to develop a strategic air force capable of covering the entire globe. The final question asks respondents where China should place its emphasis with regard to air force development, and the majority—47.6 percent—responded that China's air force should develop a space-based combat unit (satellites, space weapons, etc.), while 21.3 percent responded that China's emphasis should be placed on developing large airlift platforms (strategic bombers and cargo aircraft, etc.) (Survey.huanqiu.com, November 17).

    In light of China’s rapid air force modernization, Japan is increasingly concerned about Chinese regional air superiority. A Kyodo News report cited by the Global Times quoted Andrei Chang, editor-in-chief of the Canada-based Kanwa Defense Review Monthly, as saying that the PLAAF currently has 280 J-11s, whose combat performance is comparable to Japan's Air Self Defense Forces' 200 F-15s, and 140 J-10s, which are a match for the F-16s. According to a Japanese military source, "even though [Japan] has a disadvantage in numbers at the moment, but combined with its airborne early warning and control system Japan can win in terms of quality." Yet, the source cautioned that, "once China deploys its AEWC [KJ-2000, which were on display at the October 1 National Day Parade] … Japan's air superiority will gradually diminish" (China Daily, November 11; Global Times, November 12).
     
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  3. qilaotou

    qilaotou Regular Member

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    The performance of China's 4th G fighter will largely depend on how well the engine project develops.

    The air forces of China and Japan can not threaten each others mailand targets because the distance and fortification of SAMs on both sides. But if something happens around Diaoyu island Japan would have difficulty in providing enough air support. However Japan has a superior navy.
     
  4. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    J-XX is based on the J-10;

    J-XX fighter programme

    Doesn't look like there is anything Fifth Generation about it.
     
  5. redragon

    redragon Regular Member

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    I supposed 8-10 years is not a very long period, most of our members should be able to see it, let's wait and see, one thing I am sure is if there is a J-xx, we will see it's picture ealier before CCP declares there is one, which means we need to wait even shorter time than 8-10 years to find out.
    Based on previous experience, I trust message released from "insider" on CD forum more, so Ipersonally believe the J-xx will have 4s when it's deployed and the time for that will be within 8-10 years
     
  6. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    You believe what you want to believe is more like it. :sarcastic:

    The facts are, the timeframe of 8-10 years is for J-XX, which will be based on J-10, which will not make it a stealth fighter. It certainly won't be in the realm of PAK FA and F-22. So now we have to wait 10 more years for the ultimate J-10 variant. Single engine, unstealthy canard, and no supercruise.
     
  7. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    You still need an engine that can super-cruise and I dont think Russia will be providing them with ToT any more. There must be advancements in material sciences and acoustic physics for radar evasion. And also a fully functional AESA radar that is not dependent on foriegn technology. As soon as the Chinese achieve all this then the J-XX is not far away. There must also be a great advancement in EW systems and anti IR. Canards will play a huge spoilsport when it comes to RCS reduction.
     
  8. RPK

    RPK Indyakudimahan Senior Member

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    Chinese Air Force official: China's fourth-generation fighters refer to modified J-10 fighters - People's Daily Online:help:

    China's fourth-generation fighters reported by media recently refer to a series of modified J-10 fighters, a Chinese Air Force official said November 23, 2009.

    As to the classification of fighter generations, the world's military powers are varied. The U.S. defines F-15, F-16 fighters with the characteristics of transonic speed in medium-low altitude as third generation fighters and F-22, F-35 fighters with good performance in stealth, super sonic cruise and super maneuverability as fourth generation fighters.

    Russia defines MiG-29, Su-27/30 fighters as third generation fighters and defines Su-35, the modified third generation fighters as fourth generation. The new generation of fighters with good performance in stealth, super sonic cruise and super maneuverability are defined as fifth generation.

    The official said that China's fighters were independently created on the basis of introduction and imitation of Russian-made equipment and the fourth-generation fighters referred to the modified J-10 fighters.
     
  9. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    I guess China doesn't understand English or Russian. We define Su-35 as 4++, not third generation. The US defines F-22 as fifth generation, not fourth. Maybe China isn't a threat to India's language proficiency in English after all. :sarcastic:
     
  10. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    well, do you reallly accept such a crappy " official clarification" from CCTV?

    Anyone who understands Chinese can easily conclude which is a masterpiece of "CHinese Strategy Foolyou Bureau"(中国战略忽悠总局),between CCTV's "clarification" and what General Ho said.

    When ten years later Chinese 4G bord rolls out and foreigners questions why the bird is in fact far beyond a simple "modified J10", CHinese official still can clarify with a honestly attitude that

    " it is indeed a modified J10...as you see, is has two wings just like J10....we didn't lie at all"

    BTW, it is not 4G bird at all, it is a 3.99 G bird...
     
  11. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    It didnt' come from CCTV, it came from People's Daily. The J-10 basis of J-XX was confirmed by Xinhau and the PLA's website. You can pretend it is some kind of misinformation but it is exactly what it says. J-XX is nothing more than a supped up J-10.
     
  12. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    because you don't know chinese , you can not tell the different dialogue atmosphere between Gene. Hou and the later official "clarification" at all. so you cann't tell which one is "fooling you" at all.

    Frankly speaking, it is more likely that the late "official clarification" is just a political pose to releive foreigner's worry of "CHinese threaten".

    As we know, armymen always don't know much about politics and may leak something true that should not be leaked due to their ignorance of politics.

    So, once armymen leaks such somethings, politicians always have to stand out and "Clarify" it.
     
  13. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    There is no clarification, all that was said was, it will be based on J-10. Chinese media is too stupid to know that a supped up J-10 will not be of the fifth generation considering they don't know what generation is what. Now that we know it will be J-10 based, we military observers can set the record straight since we know anything based on J-10 will not be of the 5th.
     
  14. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    oh yeah. CHinese medias are so stupid ..so you can have a good sleep now...:goodstuff:

    to me , it seems that it is not CCTV or Peopledaily ,but you that are fooling yourself.
     
  15. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    BTW, I just surf CDF,a famous CHinese military forum.

    According to the "leak" there, Chinese 4G bird( 5G according to Russia criterion) will look like a "big ugly evil frog"
     
  16. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    According to a famous official Chinese military website, the PLA, the Chinese 4G bird (4G according to Russia criterion) will "be based on a J-10."
     
  17. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    It appears to me that you are trying to make it up as you go along. If it requires you to believe a supped up J-10 is going to be of the 5th generation to help you sleep then so be it. I don't want to be the one who causes you insomnia and insecurity of Chinese aviation obsolescence. On second thought... I really don't mind.

    :twizt:
     
  18. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    Gene. Zhang Zhaozhong , the spkesperson of NSFBC("The National Strategy Foolyou Bureau of China") has confirmed that "China's fourth-generation fighters refer to modified J-10 ".

    NSFBC(中国战略忽悠总局)is the supreme think-tank of PLA. its confirmation is very authoritiative.


    General Zhang Zhaozhong, the spokesperson of NSFBC.
    [​IMG]


     
  19. shotgunner

    shotgunner Regular Member

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    You are right, don't worry Russian friend, how could China be a threat to another country's proficiency in their own language.

    Oh wait, something is not right here ... ooooooops no ... a lot of things are not right ...

    England may challenge India's proficieny in English?
    US may challenge India's proficieny in Russian?
    India may challenge China's proficiency in Japanese?
    ...
     
  20. stax

    stax Regular Member

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    I agree with you!Our 4G bird just based on J-10(maybe J10-B)!

    It just approve that China will peacefully rise! Please don't say China is a threat!
    :twizt:
     
  21. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    There is an interesting concept... could J-10B ACTUALLY be J-XX!?!
     

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