China's Angry Youth finds counterpart in India

[DaTang]

I came by this post the other day, it is some impression of a Chinese who worked in India about Indian society, just quote some interesting observation here:

whole article can be found here 中国人在印度：看一个普通中国人揭秘一个真实的印度--西陆网

Walking on the streets of Kerala, you were often welcomed by the signs of hammer and Sickle, reminding you the influence of Indian Communist Party.

1. Financial regulation here is stricter and more sophisticated than that of China, Of course that is my assumption since I barely have any knowledge of how Chinese enterprises operates financially. I heard of that back in China, some business fake accounting records. I see more prudent handling of accounting procedures here, at least I am saying so from my personal experience with various Indian firms. I always thought, as far as private sector enterprises is concerned, Indian has an upper edge over us.

2. The civil servant system in India shares a lot in common with our imperial examination system in ancient China. It holds an annual exam nation-wide and admits only the top 1/1000 participating candidates. They are known to people as notoriously low in efficiency. You barely find them in office before 11 am. In india's government, real public servants ( equivalent to our mandarins in old feudal era) can be counted with fingers, but adjuncts-clerks or temporary staff or even valets and maids outnumbered the former in big scale.

3. Lower castes enjoy quotas in employment and selection, much similar to our affirmative action plans here in China in favor of ethnic groups. At present, India is witnessing riots, some people want to be classified as lower caste to take advantage of government subsidy.

......

7. In India, many people showed hostility to Chinese, This is understandably originated from the border conflict occurred in the 1960s. The hostility gradually faded out along with the mutual understanding increases and interactions enhanced, but it far from disappear in short time. There are also many Fenqings ( Young People in Rage, or simply angry youth)in India, sometimes, they just bothered me to discuss with me every details of the incident, and comparison between every aspects of China and India. Like Chinese angry youth, they think their country is always superior, and look down upon the country they compared with theirs.



Let me know you want to know more, unless some mods delete this under the pretext of off-topic posts.

 

[DaTang]

some more on point 1.

About the promotion of an individual, I should say for these many years, India has been controlled by a few dynastical families, if you want to be successful in your political life, without the supports of these family, it is nearly impossible, I met some people who shows a lot interests in politics in Indian college, they are super active in student union, but most of them pursue a career in politics seek only for money and fame, those are their ultimate goals. Regular Indians are more indifferent to politics, changes of ruling parties brings no change to life, they seemed all unsatisfied but they don't have ways out to solve the problems, nothing is better than a stable life.Leadership of India has severe problems of corruption, and it is everywhere. China has same problem but she often puts ministers to death role but it is unimaginable here in India.

 

[Bangalorean]

^^ Firstly, this cannot be "off topic", because the very topic of the thread is "China's angry youth in India" etc.

Now, I am not sure what kind of job this person was doing in Kerala, but in general, it is rare to discuss these kind of things and talk about "their country is superior" in front of business visitors. We are generally much more politically correct than that.

And frankly, I don't know the kind of crowd that this Chinese has interacted with. Most of today's young yuppie Indians don't even know much about the 62' war - they just have some vague information. Of course, this does not include enthusiasts like those on DFI. Almost all Indians associate Pakistan with terrorism, enmity and chicanery, but China is associated only with cheap products, Chinese food (noodles etc.), and such stuff - never with 62' war.

 

[spikey360]

"Yuppie Indians" Well said! Couldn't have said it better. And they are supposed to be the next generation..! Sigh.

 

[DaTang]

some more on point 2


My personal impression is that India is an anarchy, Nothing like China where authorities are expected to get involved in every thing. Here in India, things like minimum salary is non-existing expect in paper. Near my neighborhood, somebody is surviving with the least possible decency and necessities but none is to help them. Mandatory Education and Public Health Care barely meet passing grade except governmental propaganda. For the poors, a teen child is always a major laborer for the family, those who go to school belongs to a group of "rich idlers". No poor family can afford this waste. However, their schools do provide free lunch, I witnessed it in New Delhi, ( but helas, what a lunch, I bet any Chinese kid will pass it), but it is still a major incentive for poor kids to go to school , they at least got fed this way, not all of them frequent school every day though. Public Health Care in India is better than nothing, My house maid told me that government hospitals have these three characteristics, 1. You are always in a long queue, 2. You will never meet a decent doctor, 3. They don't treat big diseases. So my maid, earns comparatively higher because she works with foreigners, got enough of this, dropped her government hospital and went to see a private one.

 

[DaTang]

4. There are many wild dogs wondering around in India, well, rather, stray domestic dogs, but these dogs are very friendly and tamed, they are not afraid of people, they may treat you as their owners ( Mainly because indian people never bother these dogs, so dogs shows friendly attitude in return), These dogs just lay on the road side, one can pass them within 20 centimeter and they still don't move, expect open one eye to give you a lazy look. I feed such a dog in my neighborhood. He is now my acquaintance, every time I passed by, he will lay down and expose his belly for me to scratch for him, but I don't dare to use my hand, in fear of he may very well be infected, I was too scared of being bitten and having to go take the vaccine shot.

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

4. There are many wild dogs wondering around in India, well, rather, stray domestic dogs, but these dogs are very friendly and tamed, they are not afraid of people, they may treat you as their owners ( Mainly because indian people never bother these dogs, so dogs shows friendly attitude in return), These dogs just lay on the road side, one can pass them within 20 centimeter and they still don't move, expect open one eye to give you a lazy look. I feed such a dog in my neighborhood. He is now my acquaintance, every time I passed by, he will lay down and expose his belly for me to scratch for him, but I don't dare to use my hand, in fear of he may very well be infected, I was too scared of being bitten and having to go take the vaccine shot.

Atleast they roam free in INDIA, but in china you people eat those dogs...... Either way we are better than you.......

 

[DaTang]

Warning, this is very harsh and too generalized, delete if you find it offensive:

more on point 3.

On sanitation:
Indian people lack the sense of sanitation, public and personal. I browsed some pictures taken at Gambia in some other forums, and found out even Gambia's streets are five times cleaner than those here. Indian Middle Class almost equals to our urban poors, note, I don't mean white collar employees who sit in office and browse internet, I mean like those contracted blue collar workers who work for small factories or residential districts

 

[Bangalorean]

Atleast they roam free in INDIA, but in china you people eat those dogs...... Either way we are better than you.......

Leave it man - so far he hasn't trolled, let us not be nasty without cause. So far the original article has been fairly honest and unbiased. Let us see if it continues the same way. If he strays too far from the truth and the facts, we'll smack his arse.

Till then, let us encourage him to post a foreigner's honest and unbiased view. It helps.

 

[Bangalorean]

Warning, this is very harsh and too generalized, delete if you find it offensive:

more on point 3.

On sanitation:
Indian people lack the sense of sanitation, public and personal. I browsed some pictures taken at Gambia in some other forums, and found out even Gambia's streets are five times cleaner than those here. Indian Middle Class almost equals to our urban poors, note, I don't mean white collar employees who sit in office and browse internet, I mean like those contracted blue collar workers who work for small factories or residential districts

This is a little stupid. If you go and pick photos from forums, you will find only the best images. It is idiocy to compare a country's streets with some random forum images.

And by the way, I don't think domestic helps or factory workers are counted in the "middle class". That is nonsense.

 

[DaTang]

On TATA car:
I heard they are entering Chinese market now, they have set up a joint venture in Nanjing. But I doubt it will have good business in China. The configuration and standards won't meet Chinese market's expectation, they are very limited in space, comforts and accessories, pricewisely, not as competitive either. In India, TATA becomes a synonym of automobile, many people buy it, mainly due to it is affordable, In India, face is not as big an issue as in China, most people are happy with compact size low end cars, sedans like FIT (Guangzhou made mid-sized sedan) level is considered fairly luxury car. In fact, as they opened up more, cars like TATA are losing ground. However, trucks, workhorse cars are still TATA's monopoly. India impose 130% high tax on imported vehicles, if you spot a Benz on road and it is a civilian license, say hello to an indian millionaire.

An Guangzhou-Honda JV mid-sized sedan

 

[DaTang]

On India Railway
Indian railway is as same as we know, those pictures of overburdened trains we see on line is too exaggerating , if there is any scenes like it, it must happen during the HAJ, some peak time like our Spring Rush. In regular time, you will spot a few mounted on the wagon sometimes, but not as that much people and rarely that case.
Railway service is just poor, second class or lower is wrecked at its best, but first classes are relatively better, upper class Indians choose Express Cars only if they have to travel by train, most of them prefer fly, or they are just driven around by their private chauffeurs.
I watched from TV today that protesting people blocked railway somewhere between New Delhi and Mumbai, they carry sticks and sit on the rails and highways, the mass, mainly women, used hammers to knock out rail nails, and every single of them was taken away to home. I began to wonder is it worthy to have a democracy like this? Or is it democracy? Is it freedom of assembling and protesting?
A transportation owner was interviewed, the background shows a lot containers were piled up there halted and cannot move an inch. He looks almost break down, he needed to pay back his loan, but his goods was force-stopped there, in the view, people blocked all passages, and sit there meditating"¦
Indian Railway should be proud enough as Asian's earliest railway system, be it built by British, it enjoyed the longest railway title in Asia until recently with China overtaking it. It remained world biggest employer though, hires more than China Railway.

 

[Tronic]

On TATA car:
I heard they are entering Chinese market now, they have set up a joint venture in Nanjing. But I doubt it will have good business in China. The configuration and standards won't meet Chinese market's expectation, they are very limited in space, comforts and accessories, pricewisely, not as competitive either. In India, TATA becomes a synonym of automobile, many people buy it, mainly due to it is affordable, In India, face is not as big an issue as in China, most people are happy with compact size low end cars, sedans like FIT (Guangzhou made mid-sized sedan) level is considered fairly luxury car. In fact, as they opened up more, cars like TATA are losing ground. However, trucks, workhorse cars are still TATA's monopoly. India impose 130% high tax on imported vehicles, if you spot a Benz on road and it is a civilian license, say hello to an indian millionaire.

An Guangzhou-Honda JV mid-sized sedan

This is funny. Indian cars are exported all over the world, from South East Asia to Latin America to Europe. Chinese cars are known to be cheap crap, and Indian auto regulations and pollution controls are much better than in China. Can't compare Chinese shitboxes with Indian cars. And Honda Fit is a Japanese car, if you are going to post up foreign companies, than India also produces Mercedes, Audis, BMWs, Pajeros, all the high end cars are manufactured in India.

 

[Bangalorean]

This is funny. Indian cars are exported all over the world, from South East Asia to Latin America to Europe. Chinese cars are known to be cheap crap, and Indian auto regulations and pollution controls are much better than in China. Can't compare Chinese shitboxes with Indian cars. And Honda Fit is a Japanese car, if you are going to post up foreign companies, than India also produces Mercedes, Audis, BMWs, Pajeros, all the high end cars are manufactured in India.

Exactly. Well said.

 

[DaTang]

Continued on India Railway:
Indian Railway is state- owned, being state owned, it has all the state owned business' shortcomings: Low efficiency, delay, but some regular class can delay more than 24 hours. Tickets are fairly cheap though, it is because of government subsidy, but this also means lacking of funding to do necessary upgrading. People in the railway just leave their job as granted, major accidents are not rare either.
The former Ministers of Railway is Mr. Yadaf, one of the most disliked big shots by Indian media, comes from a low-caste supported party, many people voted for him because his last name, in most cases you can tell a person's caste by his/her last name, as Kumar must be Brahmin, and Yadaf in this case, a low caste I don't really know which one, maybe intouchable? But this guy is filthy rich though. And he can win an easy election in the low-casted majority Bihar State. His is wellknown about one scandal which he got deeply involved in and forbidden to run for congress, but he just hand his position to his wife and everybody is happy ever after.

 

[DaTang]

Mumbai's railway
Mumbai has two categories of railways, long distance, and inter-city. They are identical in cars and rails, but Inter-city is the one for transit. Due to the narrow and long layout of the city and South Mumbai is crowded with Big Multi-international companies, the housing price is ridiculously jacked up and scared off many buyers, people work here often buy houses in North Mumbai, where comparatively cheaper but they have to take trains to come to work. Speaking of crowded, Mumbai train is not anywhere shy from Beijing or Shanghai's metro in peak hours.

 

[DaTang]

8. The indian long sleeve robe is mainly made of cotton, it is necessary to wear long sleeve because you can get easily sun-burned here, the cloth breaths well, and foreigners ( excludes tourists) also wear this kind of robes. It is a funny observation.
9. Average income in India is low, but gaps deep and wide. My neighborhood does not lack households with multiple cars but for most Indian, they are still living in our 1980's China. I visited some of my friends , none of them have an air conditioned home, of course they told me, they are not using it not because they cannot afford it, but because power supply is always a headache, with fans, you can power them up with backup emergency batteries, which is impossible with ACs.

Many of indian household still use this kind of make-do AC called "coolers", they are actually fans, but they put hays inside and pour water in to
bring down temperature further more, Cooler is a smart invention but the water brings a lot of trouble to a Dengue ridden country, government urged its people to change the water in a regular base, they also send out inspectors to check if the water inside the coolers has been changed.

 

[DaTang]

On 1962 War
The 1962 Border war is viewed by most Indian Military personnel as a defeat, but it is not a fair defeat, by saying so, they considered China won but without glory, For example, a popular IAF perspective is China initiated a sudden strike, and Indian retreat due to mal-preparation, once they reassembled and ready to retaliate, China declared unilateral cease fire and left them cold shoed. Anyways, this border conflict impacted Indian's mentality as such as this is their only lost war. During WWI and WWII, the colony army is under the command of Brits, although wars are not fought by Indian independently, they all ended as victors. The three hindi-pak wars all ended with India defeated Pakistan, plus, in the region, there is no other major adversary that can challenge India's military might. So you can understand why Indian will never forget 1962. They still felt tricked and defeated by unfair play.
Every time I went to their government institutions, I would be asked by an older clerk of 1962, I just blurred off this topic to ensure a harmonious conversation, Yong staff or professionals showed little interests, but college kids often actively raise these kind of questions, as mentioned, there are many angry youth in college , sometimes , on train, I was corned by them with questions on 1962 war.

 

[DaTang]

On Pharmaceutical Industry
India's flourishing pharmaceutical industry benefited a lot form one of its patent laws, the law recognizes patent in production procedure but not medicine's ingredients. That is to say, for instance, a cancer fighter new medicine can be easily counterfeited because India authority recognizes ONLY the procedure not else, so the ingredient is legally counterfeited because patent owner cannot apply exclusive patent on ingredient. This makes India a smart player in the pharmaceutical market. Once a new medicine gets greenlights in world market, Indian chemists will purchase it immediately, and analyze its ingredients out , then mass produce it with slightly different procedure, and it IS legal in India.
Rambo Pharma for example is one of them, I visited their head quarter, but I was politely locked out to their labs, it is a company who has dig up its first barrel of gold from counterfeiting, but as it grows, it begins to invest huge to R&D its own. Pharma Laundry if you want call it, but they are doing pretty good now.
Their medicine is decent to some degree, especially, anti-tumor medicines, you seldom see fakes, understandably, no need if of faking since ingredients are not something costly if you knew what they are. They charge less than half of the price of the branded but effect of the medicine are similar.
Even it is illegal in China, some of my friends in China has implied in many ways for me to bring back some of the cancer fighter medicines from India.

 

[DaTang]

Separationist States
Besides Kashmir to the North Western India, ( by the way, Pakistanis never consider Kashmir as any states of India), the major separation movements were found mainly in their Northeast part. Assam for example, a map can tell you it is almost cut off by Bangladesh with an intestinal corridor connecting to the main subcontinent. The central government has loose influence here, and the ethnic minority looks more like us than them. Any Indian will buy it if I claim I am from Assam without speaking to him. Raids on Indian army and Indian government organized by separation guerrillas are frequent. But Indian central government cannot do much more than it has done, they declared martial laws on that region, and many locals were maltreated by police and army personnel. They can arrest anyone without a warrant. Due to the guerrilla force only targets to government army, Indian Central government declared them as anti-government armed groups instead of terrorists.
I have hired a servant from the northeast and been to Sikkim myself, locals there look smarter and works harder , I ever joked around that the closer they are from us, the more diligent and intelligent they are.

A female police officer on the street of Sikkim.