China’s expansive territorial claims

Discussion in 'China' started by sayareakd, Jul 29, 2011.

  1. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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  3. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    tile should have been 'false, China's territorial claims'.
     
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  4. Godless-Kafir

    Godless-Kafir DFI Buddha Senior Member

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    This idiot does not even know the difference between Chinese and Mongols!!
     
  5. sant

    sant Regular Member

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    At the time of Mahabarath war , Chinese king believed to sent his army to help pandavas. Is it possible to claim now that china is indian terriotery?
     
  6. Shaitan

    Shaitan Zandu balm all day Senior Member

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    Or the early Manchus(Qing empire)


    Manchus and Mongols invaded China from the north. These two people were always considered barbarians by the Hans, also the Hans were thought to be Barbarians by the other two.


    Mongols and later the Manchurians invaded China and took Tibet and Mongolia with it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2011
  7. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    Should be called fake claims of a paranoid, selfish and deranged government. As much as the Economist likes to put it that China would take the lands by "force", it would be stepping on a time bomb fighting off with the entire Asia and ultimately toppling of CCP by fed up common Chinese (not 50-cent party that is paid to glorify CCP day and night on internet).
     
  8. mileycyruslove

    mileycyruslove Regular Member

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    you guys are really nuts, the democratic government in Taiwan(ROC) has a much larger territorial claim than PRC
     
  9. huaxia rox

    huaxia rox Senior Member Senior Member

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    well.... then u actually expected them to understand this?? they maybe only know akhand bharat and tend to enjoy the map of that in u tube and their dream..............
     
  10. A chauhan

    A chauhan "अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l" Senior Member

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    aren't you claiming Arunachal Pradesh in your dreams??
     
  11. huaxia rox

    huaxia rox Senior Member Senior Member

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    as if u people didnt have a dream of getting aksai chin.........and even the whole tibet for some of u apprently in this forum...............
     
  12. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    whole of china belongs to India...except areas around mongolia.

    One day we will reclaim all lost territories.
     
  13. A chauhan

    A chauhan "अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l" Senior Member

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    lol i stroked at your weak part !
    getting aksai chin ? it's ours !! we don't have to dream for it, it's not a dream. No one wants Tibbet BTW.
     
  14. huaxia rox

    huaxia rox Senior Member Senior Member

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    well but u can never stroke me even with ur funny statement.....
     
  15. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    gulfnews : China’s expansive territorial claims

    Given its mushrooming military budget and secretiveness, its assertiveness has set off alarm bells among the other countries bordering the South China Sea

    TOKYO – China is now engaged in bitter disputes with the Philippines over Scarborough Shoal and Japan over the Senkaku Islands, both located far beyond China’s 200-mile-wide territorial waters in the South China Sea. Indeed, so expansive are China’s claims nowadays that many Asians are wondering what will satisfy China’s desire to secure its “core interests.” Are there no limits, or does today’s China conceive of itself as a restored Middle Kingdom, to whom the entire world must kowtow?

    So far, China has formally referred to Taiwan, Tibet, and Xinjiang province as “core interests,” a phrase that connotes an assertion of national sovereignty and territorial integrity that will brook no compromise. Now China is attempting to apply the same term to the Senkaku Islands in its dispute with Japan, and is perilously close to making the same claim for the entire South China Sea; indeed, some Chinese military officers already have.

    The Senkaku Islands, located to the west of Okinawa in the East China Sea and currently uninhabited, were incorporated into Japan by the Meiji government in 1895. At one time, there were regular residents working at a bonito-drying facility. In 1969, the United Nations Economic Commission for Asia and the Far East (ECAFE) completed a seabed survey of the East China Sea, and reported the possible presence of vast underground mineral resources, including abundant oil and natural gas reserves near the Senkakus. Two years passed before Taiwan and China claimed sovereignty over the islands, in 1971, but the Japanese government’s stance has always been that Japan’s sovereignty is not in question.

    In April, Tokyo Governor Shintaro Ishihara, a famous and articulate patriot, announced that the metropolitan government that he leads plans to acquire four of the Senkaku Islands, which are currently privately owned by Japanese citizens. Donations for the purchase from the people of Japan now exceed ¥700 million ($8.4 million).

    China reacted to Ishihara’s proposal with its usual sensitivity: it refused to receive the scheduled visit of Ishihara’s son, who is Secretary-General of Japan’s Liberal Democratic Party, the country’s main opposition party.

    Moreover, at a meeting in Beijing earlier this month between Japanese Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda and Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao during a trilateral summit with South Korea, Wen mentioned the independence movement in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region and the Senkaku Islands in the same breath. “It is important to respect China’s core interests and issues of major concern,” he emphasized.

    Until that moment, the Chinese government had never applied the term “core interest” to the Senkaku Islands. Following Wen’s statement, the trilateral summit deteriorated. While South Korean President Lee Myung-bak held bilateral talks with Chinese President Hu Jintao, talks between Noda and Hu, and a scheduled meeting between Keidanren Chairman Hiromasa Yonekura and Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi, were also canceled. The joint declaration issued at the summit was delayed a day, and omitted all references to North Korea – a prime concern of both Japan and South Korea.

    China’s brusque treatment of Japan’s leaders probably was intended as a rebuke not only over the Senkaku Islands issue, but also for hosting the Fourth General Meeting of the World Uyghur Congress in Tokyo in May. Previously, such meetings had been held in Germany and the United States, and this one, which stressed the importance of protecting human rights and preserving the traditions, culture, and language of the Uyghur people, received no official sanction or endorsement from the Japanese government.

    If gruff diplomacy was the only manifestation of China’s expansive territorial claims, Asian leaders could sleep more peacefully. But the fact is that China’s navy is becoming increasingly active in the South China Sea, at the Senkaku Islands and Scarborough Shoal in particular, but also around the Spratly Islands claimed by Vietnam. Given China’s mushrooming military budget and secretiveness, that assertiveness has set off alarm bells among the other countries bordering the South China Sea.

    Moreover, China’s bullying of the Philippines included not only the dispatch of warships to Scarborough Shoals, but also the sudden imposition of import restrictions on Filipino produce. And China’s reactions toward Japan are far more paranoid since a non-LDP government took power.

    The struggles for power within China’s ruling Communist Party over the purge of Bo Xilai, and the blind activist Chen Guangcheng’s escape from detention during economic talks with the US, have made Chinese leaders’ nationalist assertions even more strident than usual. No official wants to appear soft where China’s supposed “core interests” are concerned.

    So far, China has not unleashed the sort of mass demonstrations against Japan and others that it has used in the past to convey its displeasure. But that probably reflects the jittery state of China’s leaders in the wake of the Bo purge: they cannot guarantee that an anti-Japan demonstration would not turn into an anti-government protest.

    China’s real core interests are not in territorial expansion and hegemony over its neighbors, but in upholding the human rights and improving the welfare of its own citizens, which is the world’s core interest in China. But until China accepts that its territorial claims in the South China Sea must be discussed multilaterally, so that smaller countries like the Philippines and Vietnam do not feel threatened, China’s ever expanding “core interests” will be the root of instability in East Asia.
    Copyright: Project Syndicate, 2012.
     
  16. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    No.

    The reason that China is claiming all these "indian terrirery" is that there was no specific border over there accepted by both sides in history.
    The british just drew the line unilaterally, which was not accepted by any Chinese gov: from the Northern gov to KMT until today's CCP.
    So, technically, that is a disputed area.

    I think the mistake made by india is that Nehru accpted China's sovereignty over tibet. When he admited it, he actually admited that Tibet was just a province of China. Then tibet had no authority to sign any treaty with anyone. But tibet's signature was the only way to make british's line legal.
     
  17. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    China's Invented History Beijing is rewriting the past to justify its expansive claim

    China's Invented History:Beijing is rewriting the past to justify its expansive claims to disputed waters.

    The conflict between the Philippines and China over the Scarborough Shoal may seem to be a minor dispute over an uninhabitable rock and the surrounding waters. But it is hugely important for future relations in the region because it showcases China's stubborn view that the histories of the non-Han peoples whose lands border two-thirds of the South China Sea are irrelevant. The only history that matters is that written by the Chinese and interpreted by Beijing.

    The Philippine case for Scarborough is mostly presented as one of geography. The feature, known in Filipino as the Panatag Shoal and in Chinese as Huangyan Island, is some 130 nautical miles off the coast of Luzon, the largest island in the Philippine archipelago. It's well within the Philippines' Exclusive Economic Zone, which, as per the U.N. Law of the Sea Convention, extends 200 nautical miles off the coast. On the other hand, the shoal is roughly 350 miles from the mainland of China and 300 miles from the tip of Taiwan.

    China avoids these inconvenient geographical facts and relies on historical half-truths that it applies to every feature it claims in the South China Sea. That's why it's now feuding with not just the Philippines, but other nations too. Beijing's famous U-shaped dotted line on its maps of the South China Sea defines territorial claims within the 200-mile limits of Malaysia, Vietnam, the Philippines and Brunei, and close to Indonesia's gas-rich Natuna Islands.

    In the case of the Scarborough Shoal, China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs gives the historical justification that the feature is mentioned in a Chinese map from the 13th century—when China itself was under alien Mongol rule—resulting from the visit of a vessel from China. This "we were there first" argument is nonsense. Chinese sailors were latecomers to the South China Sea, to say nothing of onward trade to the Indian Ocean. The seafaring history of the region at least for the first millennium of the current era was dominated by the ancestors of today's Indonesians, Malaysians, Filipinos and (less directly) Vietnamese.

    As China's own records reveal, when Chinese traveled from China to Sumatra and then on to Sri Lanka, they did so in Malay ships. This was not the least surprising given that during this era, Malay people from what is now Indonesia were the first colonizers of the world's third largest island, Madagascar, some 4,000 miles away. (The Madagascan language and 50% of its human gene pool are of Malay origin). They were crossing the Indian Ocean 1,000 years before the much-vaunted voyages of Chinese admiral Zheng He in the 15th century.


    [​IMG]

    Malay seafaring prowess was later overtaken by south Indians and Arabs, but they remained the premier seafarers in Southeast Asia until the Europeans dominated the region. The Malay-speaking, Hindu-ized Cham seagoing empire of central Vietnam dominated South China Sea trade until it was conquered by the Vietnamese about the time the European traders began to arrive in Asia, while trade between Champa (present-day southern Vietnam) and Luzon was well established long before the Chinese drew their 13th century map.

    The Scarborough Shoal, which lies not only close to the Luzon coast but on the direct route from Manila Bay to the ancient Cham ports of Hoi An and Qui Nhon, had to be known to Malay sailors. The Chinese claim to have "been there first" is then like arguing that Europeans got to Australia before its aboriginal inhabitants.

    Another unsteady pillar in China's claim to the Scarborough Shoal is its reliance on the Treaty of Paris of 1898. This yielded Spanish sovereignty over the Philippine archipelago to the U.S. and drew straight lines on the map which left the shoal a few miles outside the longitudinal line defined by the treaty. China now conveniently uses this accord, which these two foreign powers arrived at without any input from the Philippine people, to argue that Manila has no claim.

    The irony is that the Communist Party otherwise rejects "unequal treaties" imposed by Western imperialists, such as the McMahon line dividing India and Tibet. Does this mean Vietnam can claim all the Spratly Islands, because the French claimed them all and Hanoi has arguably inherited this claim?

    China also asserts that because its case for ownership dates back to 1932, subsequent Philippine claims are invalid. In other words, it uses the fact that the Philippines was under foreign rule as a basis for its own claims.

    Manila wants to resolve the matter under the U.N. Law of the Sea Convention, but Beijing argues that its 1932 claim isn't bound by the Convention, which came into effect in 1994 since it preceded it. That's a handy evasion, most probably because China knows its case for ownership is weak by the Convention's yardsticks.

    China is making brazen assertions that rewrite history and take no account of geography. Today's naval arguments won't come to an end until the region's largest disputant stops rewriting the past.
     
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  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: China's Invented History Beijing is rewriting the past to justify its expansive c

    Chinese fairy tales are very beautiful and mesmerising!
     
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  19. s002wjh

    s002wjh Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: China's Invented History Beijing is rewriting the past to justify its expansive c

    of course china gonna do everything possible to claim its their territory , isn't the philippine doing the same.

    china record did show scs since ming dynasty, around 15-16 century, and i doubt other nations has this early historical records . their claim is base on these records and later historical records, while other countries claims base on proximity.

    and yes vietnam does claim a very large portion compare to their country size, the claim also overlap philippine, malasia, taiwan and other claims.

    all the counries in the regions claim big chunk of it, concentrate on china alone is just pure bias.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2012
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  20. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: China's Invented History Beijing is rewriting the past to justify its expansive c

    Its territory? :eek:

    Based on fairy tales?

    It is the Malays who should claim all!
     
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  21. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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