China world's 2nd largest economy

[badguy2000]

where did you get this #?

really? haha, this year, I promise to get a 30-50% of my salary.........I am sure that my salary can easily double in the coming next 5 years....hahaa.....

 

[badguy2000]

China still has long way to go. The average salary in North America is about 70,000 USD annually. There is no relationship between democracy and prosperity. I have worked both in China and North America. My university classmates in China nowadays make about 20,000 USD to 100,000 USD annually depend on their positions and companies.

your data is against the basic logics of economy.

Usually, the average yearly salary is about 70-80% of nominal per capital GDP.

For example,

French per nominal GDP is about 40K USD, then its average yearly salary should be about 30K USD,that is
2-3K USD(2K Euro)/per months.

Chinese per nominal GDP is about 5K USD, then its average yearly salary should be about 4K USD,that is 300-350 USD(2000-2500RMB)/per month.

India's per nominal GDP is about 1.2K USD, then its aveage yearly salary should be about 1K USD, that is 100-150USD(5K-7.5K rupees)/per month.

USA's per nominal GDP is about 40-50K USD, so its average yearly salary should be about 35K USD, that is 2.5-3.5K USD/per months.

 

[pi314159]

guy, the rise of Chinese life quality is at the expense of the Chinese environment. Your energy reserves, water, and farmlands are disappearing at a staggering rate.

The challenge China has is to improve hundred of millions people's life quality as quick as possible, because we do not have caste mentality like Indians and so very sensitive to social inequality. For such an unprecedented scale and speed, there is inevitably impact on environment among many other issues, we understand the problems and are addressing them.

Looking at slums in big city like Mumbai, I always wonder why people living in such a poverty do not rebel, is it because of democracy, or religion or 'caste'? India seems can afford a slow paced modernization. Whatever, India is indeed blessed.

 

[jazzguy]

your data is against the basic logics of economy.

Usually, the average yearly salary is about 70-80% of nominal per capital GDP.

For example,

French per nominal GDP is about 40K USD, then its average yearly salary should be about 30K USD,that is
2-3K USD(2K Euro)/per months.

Chinese per nominal GDP is about 5K USD, then its average yearly salary should be about 4K USD,that is 300-350 USD(2000-2500RMB)/per month.

India's per nominal GDP is about 1.2K USD, then its aveage yearly salary should be about 1K USD, that is 100-150USD(5K-7.5K rupees)/per month.

USA's per nominal GDP is about 40-50K USD, so its average yearly salary should be about 35K USD, that is 2.5-3.5K USD/per months.

It depends. I think that 80% of my university classmates working in the Chinese state companies have dedicated drivers. Their salary should be higher than what you think.

You probably confused by per capita GDP and per capita incoming. Per capita GDP count kids and retirees.

I looked at times of India about the salary in India. Indian white corner salary is around 450,000 rupees annually and a 500 sq feet apartment in India is about 200,000 USD. Any Indian friends can confirm this?

 

[Armand2REP]

The challenge China has is to improve hundred of millions people's life quality as quick as possible, because we do not have caste mentality like Indians and so very sensitive to social inequality. For such an unprecedented scale and speed, there is inevitably impact on environment among many other issues, we understand the problems and are addressing them.

Sensitive to social inequality yet it increases every year. Sensitive to environmental concerns yet pollutes more every year. If those are your goals, they have failed every year.

Looking at slums in big city like Mumbai, I always wonder why people living in such a poverty do not rebel, is it because of democracy, or religion or 'caste'? India seems can afford a slow paced modernization. Whatever, India is indeed blessed.

Blessed with freedom of speech? Who knows...

 

[badguy2000]

It depends. I think that 80% of my university classmates working in the Chinese state companies have dedicated drivers. Their salary should be higher than what you think.

You probably confused by per capita GDP and per capita incoming. Per capita GDP count kids and retirees.

I looked at times of India about the salary in India. Indian white corner salary is around 450,000 rupees annually and a 500 sq feet apartment in India is about 200,000 USD. Any Indian friends can confirm this?

per capital GDP is a concept different from per capital incoming ,of course.

Per capital income <<Per capital GDP ,because per capital GDP = repays of Laborer + net production tax + fixed assets depreciation + earned surpluses(劳动者报酬+ 生产税净额+ 固定资产折旧+ 营业盈余).

however, a consistent ratio indeed exists,that is 70-80% ,of per capital income/per capital GDP.

BTW,your university classmated obviously belong to the upper mid-class in CHina.their salary can not represent the average income of CHina.

 

[badguy2000]

The challenge China has is to improve hundred of millions people's life quality as quick as possible, because we do not have caste mentality like Indians and so very sensitive to social inequality. For such an unprecedented scale and speed, there is inevitably impact on environment among many other issues, we understand the problems and are addressing them.

Looking at slums in big city like Mumbai, I always wonder why people living in such a poverty do not rebel, is it because of democracy, or religion or 'caste'? India seems can afford a slow paced modernization. Whatever, India is indeed blessed.

well, if CHinese people were to find their future is as hopeless as the people in India slums,soon will come out some Victor Chen and Broad Wu(陈胜吴广）

 

[SHASH2K2]

The challenge China has is to improve hundred of millions people's life quality as quick as possible, because we do not have caste mentality like Indians and so very sensitive to social inequality. For such an unprecedented scale and speed, there is inevitably impact on environment among many other issues, we understand the problems and are addressing them.

Looking at slums in big city like Mumbai, I always wonder why people living in such a poverty do not rebel, is it because of democracy, or religion or 'caste'? India seems can afford a slow paced modernization. Whatever, India is indeed blessed.

Have you ever been to Dharavi or its just the CCP promoted media that has told you about a slum named Dharavi ? Enlighten yourself . People at Dharavi have much better life than villagers in China and their standard of living is much better than your imagination.

Economy
Dharavi is not only a residential space, but also a major economic hub representing the city's vast informal sector. In fact, in many parts, it seems as if residential spaces have been carved out from the tiny surplus left over from economic activities such as recycling industries, leather tanneries, heavy metal work, woodwork, and manufactured goods like garments, shoes, luggage, jewelry. Industries generally serve all of Mumbai, and many products are even distributed in global markets. One conservative estimate places the annual value of goods produced in Dharavi at USD 500 million ("Inside the Slums," The Economist, 27/1/05).

Commercial and manufacturing enterprises provide employment for a large share of Dharavi's population as well as for some living outside Dharavi. Much of Dharavi's productivity is rooted in a decentralized production process relying on a vast network of small home-based production units.

The Brihanmumbai Municipal Corporation (BMC) own most of the land in Dharavi, with private landholders and the central government controlling the rest. An informal real estate market operates in the area, with prices varying by location and building quality. While some residents live in structures with tin walls and plastic sheeting, many have moved up to brick or concrete and have added lofts, upper stories and decorative elements. Some owners lease spaces to tenants, having purchased more than one house or moved out of Dharavi. Although a majority of structures constitute "slum housing," Dharavi also contains other housing typologies, including the former village structures of Koliwada, planned government chawls and transit accommodations, and government-sponsored high-rises.

Those who have never ventured into Dharavi may imagine it as a wasteland of tent-like temporary structures, an immense junkyard crowded with undernourished people completely disconnected from the rest of the world, surviving on charity and pulling the economy backward.

Beneath the sea of corrugated tin roofs, the reality could hardly be more different. Dharavi is a highly developed urban area composed of distinct neighborhoods and bustling with economic activity that is integrated socially, economically and culturally at metropolitan, regional and global levels.

Previously ignored by authorities, Dharavi was officially recognized as a slum in 1976, when state slum policy shifted from demolition to upgradation. During the next decade, the government took measures against crime and illicit liqueur production and brought in basic amenities such as water taps, toilets, drains and electricity.

During a visit to Dharavi in 1985, Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi announced a grant of Rs. 100 crore to Bombay, a substantial portion of which was allocated to infrastructural and housing projects in Dharavi under the Prime Minister's Grant Project (PMGP).

Beginning in 1995, the Slum Rehabilitation Scheme (SRS) has provided incentives for developers to construct buildings with free 225 sq. ft. flats for slum dwellers in exchange for building rights, which can be sold on the open market as Transfer of Development Rights (TDR). Most of the high-rise buildings that pepper Dharavi's skyline were constructed under this scheme.

http://dharavi.org/B._Introduction

http://www.planetizen.com/node/17572

 

[SHASH2K2]

The challenge China has is to improve hundred of millions people's life quality as quick as possible, because we do not have caste mentality like Indians and so very sensitive to social inequality. For such an unprecedented scale and speed, there is inevitably impact on environment among many other issues, we understand the problems and are addressing them.

Looking at slums in big city like Mumbai, I always wonder why people living in such a poverty do not rebel, is it because of democracy, or religion or 'caste'? India seems can afford a slow paced modernization. Whatever, India is indeed blessed.

What do you say about this ?

"Slums" sting Chinese cities, hamper building of harmonious society


Despite piles of garbage and swarms of flies outdoors, and despite the darkness, dampness and shabbiness in the foul-aired room, 60-year-old trash collector Yao Guozhong is not discontent with living in his rented house in Beijing.

"I can earn 500 yuan (62 US dollars) a month by collecting and selling garbage," said Yao, who gave up his barren cropland in east China's Anhui Province and came here in April this year with his wife.

"After paying 150 yuan (18 US dollars) for the monthly rent for the house, my wife and I still have enough money to eat our fill," he said. "It is better living here than living in my home village in Anhui."

Yao's house is situated in Xiju Village in the southwestern part of Beijing, a typical poverty corner in the capital, known as "villages inside cities" in China but labeled "slums" by some sociologists.

Whatever they should be branded, such "villages" are nowadays commonly seen in Chinese cities, even Beijing, the center of politics, economy and culture of China.

According to the Beijing Municipal Committee of City Planning and Management, Beijing now has 346 "villages inside cities," with "villagers" exceeding 1.5 million, including 990,000 from outside Beijing.

The non-native "villagers" come mostly from rural areas, especially poor areas, in almost all parts of the country. They are called "migrant farmer workers" in China and mainly engaged in construction, retailing and wholesaling, and catering in Beijing. The "villagers" also include many scavengers, like Yao.

The committee classifies the "villages inside cities" into two types. In the first sense, they are actually not true villages, as those in the countryside, but refer to the dirty and disordered corners in the cities. Though located in cities, these corners are not developed and urbanized as other parts of the cities.

In the second sense, the "villages inside cities" are indeed villages that are located at the juncture of urban and rural areas, like the one in which Yao lives. Such villages are being turned into a part of the city in the course of urbanization.

Not all Chinese sociologists agree that China now has "slums", as those commonly seen in metropolises in some developed or underdeveloped countries. However, these Chinese neighborhoods have many of the characteristics of slums, and have aroused the public's attention due to a report recently issued by the Beijing Municipal Academy of Social Sciences on poor corners in the eight districts of Beijing.

The report pointed out that the residential area of Dashilan in downtown Beijing has become a typical "slum," citing that most of its residents have a daily expenditure of no more than eight yuan (1 US dollar).

The emergence of the "villages inside cities" and related issues are stinging the growth of Chinese cities and hampering the nation's endeavors to build a "harmonious society," as proposed by the ruling Communist Party of China (CPC) and the central government.

"The 'villages inside cities' are always the areas where city planners have a relatively weaker management," said Li Weidong of the Beijing Municipal Academy of Social Sciences.

He listed a few major problems in these areas, such as the dense, shaky and sometimes illegally-built houses, the filthy and and messy environment, the lack of sanitary facilities, the hidden troubles for possible fires and other issues concerning social security.

"The bad living conditions not only harm the physical and mental health of the residents, but also can easily trigger social conflicts," he said. "That goes against the building of a harmonious society."

"Harmonious society" is now a popular catchword in China, which implies democracy, the rule of law, equity, justice, sincerity, amity and vitality.

Such a society should give full scope to people's talent and creativity, enable all the people to share the social wealth brought by reform and development, and help forge an ever closer relationship between the people and government, Hu Jintao, general secretary of the CPC Central Committee and also Chinese President, has said.

Analysts said "slums" are a common social phenomenon in the course of urbanization across the world. However, to inexperienced Chinese city administrators, the appearance of "slums" is a severe challenge.

Rural people in China began to flow into cities in the late 1970s, when China initiated the policy of reform and opening-up under the leadership of the late Deng Xiaoping. Nowadays, more and more rural migrants hope to settle down in the cities as a result of the fast urbanization of China in recent years. The current urbanization rate is approximately 40 percent.

At present, China has about 40 million farmers who have lost their cropland, statistics from the Ministry of Labor and Social Security show, and the number is rising by two million each year.

The Beijing municipal government has decided to completely demolish the "villages inside cities."

According to the Municipal Committee of City Planning and Management, Beijing will demolish 171 such villages by 2008 to greet the 29th summer Olympic Games. By 2010, 232 will be cleared.

For this year, Beijing has allocated approximately three billion yuan (370 million US dollars) to sweep 69 such villages away. The committee declined to disclose its detailed plan for the relocation of the non-native "villagers" after their houses are pulled down.

However, some sociologists and specialists on management are not in favor of such practice. They argued that it is just because of the existence of the "villages inside cities" that China has not seen such "slums" as those in some foreign countries, in which residents build their homes with sheet iron and paper boxes. Once those villages are demolished, where can the "villagers" go?

Zhou Xiaozheng, a professor of social studies with the Beijing-based People's University of China, said that the "villages inside cities" should not be simply wiped out from the maps.

City planners should not only "urbanize the land" but also "urbanize the people," and turn the "villagers" into true "citizens," he said.

Ding Xuedong, director of the Agriculture Department with China's Finance Ministry, has called for the building of special communities for people who have low-incomes.

"There are luxury villas, first-class residential apartments as well as affordable houses in the cities, but never has a special community for migrant farmer workers or other low-income people been built," he said.

In such a community, residents can enjoy not only a house to live in, but also the service of inexpensive supermarkets, schools and hospitals, he said.

"That may be a solution to the issue of the 'villages inside cities'," he added.

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200509/09/eng20050909_207472.html

 

[pi314159]

Have you ever been to Dharavi or its just the CCP promoted media that has told you about a slum named Dharavi ? Enlighten yourself . People at Dharavi have much better life than villagers in China and their standard of living is much better than your imagination.

The first time I got know slum is from National Geographic, issue of May 2007, well it can be western propaganda. I never got chance to visit Mumbai, so please let me know how false it is.

However I do believe that People at Dharavi believe they have much better life than villagers in China.

 

[pmaitra]

The first time I got know slum is from National Geographic, issue of May 2007, well it can be western propaganda. I never got chance to visit Mumbai, so please let me know how false it is.

However I do believe that People at Dharavi believe they have much better life than villagers in China.

The government builds flats and tenements for the slum dwellers and moves them there. This comes out of tax money collected from people who do not necessarily live in slums. Once these slum dwellers get the ownership of their flat, they rent it out and then go back to the slums again. This is true for most of the slum dwellers. Slum dwellers are indeed smart people.

 

[pi314159]

The government builds flats and tenements for the slum dwellers and moves them there. This comes out of tax money collected from people who do not necessarily live in slums. Once these slum dwellers get the ownership of their flat, they rent it out and then go back to the slums again. This is true for most of the slum dwellers. Slum dwellers are indeed smart people.

Thanks for the input indeed. So other than democracy, religion and caste, there is one more way to keep people from rebelling: money.

 

[pmaitra]

Thanks for the input indeed. So other than democracy, religion and caste, there is one more way to keep people from rebelling: money.

I think you misinterpreted what I wrote. What I stated is what happens in reality.

The government does not intend these people to rent out their freely gifted flats and go back to the slums. The government does this as a humanitarian assistance to the slum dwellers so that they do not become homeless overnight when they are evicted from their homes that they built on land that does not belong to them and when the city is cleared of its slums. These people, who are beneficiaries of the government's benevolence, simply abuse these free gifts of flats, which, of course is funded by public tax money. I would not call it giving money to people to stop them from rebelling. Most of the slums, as I hear, are simply occupied by squatters, and these slum dwellers have no legal basis to live on that land anyway.

 

[pi314159]

I think you misinterpreted what I wrote. What I stated is what happens in reality.

The government does not intend these people to rent out their freely gifted flats and go back to the slums. The government does this as a humanitarian assistance to the slum dwellers so that they do not become homeless overnight when they are evicted from their homes that they built on land that does not belong to them and when the city is cleared of its slums. These people, who are beneficiaries of the government's benevolence, simply abuse these free gifts of flats, which, of course is funded by public tax money. I would not call it giving money to people to stop them from rebelling. Most of the slums, as I hear, are simply occupied by squatters, and these slum dwellers have no legal basis to live on that land anyway.

Thank pmailtra for your patience, now I understand the issue better.

 

[pmaitra]

Thank pmailtra for your patience, now I understand the issue better.

My pleasure π.

Please feel free to ask whatever question you want, and someone will definitely try to respond.

 

[singa]

I think you misinterpreted what I wrote. What I stated is what happens in reality.

The government does not intend these people to rent out their freely gifted flats and go back to the slums. The government does this as a humanitarian assistance to the slum dwellers so that they do not become homeless overnight when they are evicted from their homes that they built on land that does not belong to them and when the city is cleared of its slums. These people, who are beneficiaries of the government's benevolence, simply abuse these free gifts of flats, which, of course is funded by public tax money. I would not call it giving money to people to stop them from rebelling. Most of the slums, as I hear, are simply occupied by squatters, and these slum dwellers have no legal basis to live on that land anyway.

Good information. Do you where is the number of flats built for these people? Because enough flats for these people are very important.

 

[pmaitra]

Good information. Do you where is the number of flats built for these people? Because enough flats for these people are very important.

The following articles give some numbers that might answer your questions:
Battle over Mumbai's slums.
New start: 500 Mumbai slum-dwellers get flats in posh area.

Also, you can look into MHADA website.

 

[singa]

The following articles give some numbers that might answer your questions:
Battle over Mumbai's slums.
New start: 500 Mumbai slum-dwellers get flats in posh area.

Also, you can look into MHADA website.

Read it. Thanks for the link.
This is a good start. However, 500 Mumbai slum-dwellers flats in posh area is apparently not enough. Need speed up.

I Heard that China also has a plan to build 30,000,000 apartment unit in 5 years. But that is just a plan. whether or not can completion is a question mark.

 

[amoy]

Heard that China also has a plan to build 30,000,000 apartment unit in 5 years. But that is just a plan. whether or not can completion is a question mark.

In China it's called "cheap rental houses" or to that effect. Every city has to implement this policy. Chongqing Municipality, whose mayor is said to be of "Left Wing" of CCP, is in the vanguard though.

CHONGQING - A southwest Chinese city on Wednesday piloted a lottery scheme to allocate public rental apartments to eligible families with limited income to protect them from sky-high property prices.

The government of Chongqing Municipality offered 15,281 apartments for the lottery, while 22,317 applicants were qualified to enter the pool, said Zhang Dingyu, director of Chongqing's land resources and housing administration.

Zhang said the units allocated Wednesday account for only 40 percent of the total units the city government plans to provide to the market this year.

Time for the next lottery has not been decided yet.

The authorities drew strict rules to limit candidates' qualification to prevent corruption.

Suspicions over collusion that resulted in the rich getting the government subsidized housing have caused public complaints in cities like Beijing in the past.

According to the rules, unmarried Chongqing residents who earn no more than 2,000 yuan a month, married couples who earn no more than 3,000 yuan, and families in which each member earns no more than 1,500 yuan a month are qualified for joining the lottery scheme.

Wednesday's lottery was conducted in a transparent manner with live television broadcast.

Each unit of the public rental apartments is between 40 to 80 square meters in size.

Tenants enjoy a rent 40 percent less than that of comparable commercial housing.

The term of rental is five years.

Tenants who buy commercial housing will have to give away the units they rent.

 

[badguy2000]

well, it is funny to dig the tomb before Chinese new year 2012